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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Tora]
    #28106812 -

Because they haven't done enough psychedelics.


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #28106868 -

among 80billion neurons in our brains, some 20 billion of them each have ~100,000 connections with other neurons. when neurons fire at the same time those connections become the impressions of experiences and are recoverable as memory via perceptive reflexes.

thinking that everything is one is a direct appreciation of connectivity being at the root of consciousness.

it is intuitive and correct in a few ways, but generally (except for this view of neural interconnection - and in some quantum gravity way) it does not make sense if you think it through logically, or if you try to illustrate it by painting everything white (which many acid heads have tried to do to show their enlightenment).


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28106994 -

The distance between matter is inconsequential when you realize that it is relative. After all, there is distance between electrons within an atom an open space within the atom, that if we were on a microscopic level would seem tremendous. Besides that there has also been shown that there is a great deal of dark matter in the universe. Space may not be so empty. As far as things being connected, quantum physics has explanations for this. Look up entanglement. Additionally, we are all subject to moving through the universe as a result of the big bang. Everything that exists has been spurred on, and is still being influenced by interaction with that initial burst of energy. It’s an allusion that we are self contained, separate and sitting still. Just because it seems that way, doesn’t mean we aren’t at every moment moving more than 66,000 mph. Namaste.

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Neurotech]
    #28107269 -



Check it out. Its all pretty interesting - parts are less than scientific. This is part one of four. Look at the video from 1:25 to 2:05.

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Neurotech]
    #28107390 -

https://nap.nationalacademies.org/read/10079/chapter/7#81

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Neurotech] * 3
    #28108131 -

A shortcut would imply knowing one's destination. I have no clue where I'm going but I am on the road again and that's what counts. I was paralyzed by fear and depression and the mushrooms relieved me from that very quickly. They gave me back my mental flexibility, gave me access again to the tools that I always had in me but couldn't find in all the chaos and pain. Now the rest is totally up to me.


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Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood.
-Marie Curie


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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: rocky_raccoon]
    #28119175 -

everything is connected through and as mycelium.

sorry, i started reading that paul stamets book.

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: orphee]
    #28119222 -

If they help speed up any sort of progress, even if still takes years of work, the term "shortcut" would be accurate, according to the basic definitions of the word.

shortcut (n):
1. a shorter alternative route
2. an accelerated way of doing or achieving something

Do you not find it to be the case that psychedelics can help speed up one's personal growth, the process of getting through depression or other mental health issues, or anything else like that?

I've never taken psychedelics, so I can't answer that question, myself, but from what I've read, it surely seems like that's the case for a lot of people, and to be honest, that's one of the things that seems most alluring about them, for me - their apparent ability to help speed along the improvement of one's mental health. Quotes like, "one trip felt like 100 years of therapy", certainly make psychedelics sound like a shortcut, and not in a bad way.

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28119228 -

redgreenvines said:
among 80billion neurons in our brains, some 20 billion of them each have ~100,000 connections with other neurons. when neurons fire at the same time those connections become the impressions of experiences and are recoverable as memory via perceptive reflexes.

thinking that everything is one is a direct appreciation of connectivity being at the root of consciousness.

it is intuitive and correct in a few ways, but generally (except for this view of neural interconnection - and in some quantum gravity way) it does not make sense if you think it through logically, or if you try to illustrate it by painting everything white (which many acid heads have tried to do to show their enlightenment).


Man, RGB I may not always agree with everything you say, but comments like these make me wish I could chat with you in person about philosophy & psychology.

I appreciate your conversational style which marries both evidence/materialism with a healthy level of intuition. For the most part you are very level-headed, but I'll bet we're both nut cases in a sense, simultaneously.

Anyways off-topic but just wanted to share some love :hug:


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:cookiemonster: Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks:elmo:

:awesomenod: Easiest No-Pour Agar Method: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers:awesomenod:

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Rhizomorph]
    #28119312 -

Rhizomorph said:
...

Anyways off-topic but just wanted to share some love :hug:


appreciated reading so,
sometimes I read what I wrote, and it takes me a while to synch up,
but when I am there I think "so is everyone else," hahaha...
who knows - why not?

lately however,
I can synch a bit faster so it is not that waaay out there, and people are synching up on and off too

Happy New Year!


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Tora]
    #28119398 -

I guess it's better late than never, right?

You realize psychedelics have literally been PROVEN to be a faster tool for fixing psychological issues than therapy alone, right? You can probably pull up some sort of scientific paper that discusses this exact thing, about psychedelics turning MONTHS or YEARS of therapy into a 5 hour trip.

I've tried therapy. I really don't mingle with any of the therapists I've met and frankly most of them, I feel, don't know how to handle my issues. I'm basically on my own anyway with learning how to manage my emotions. Psychedelics reset my entire emotional body and sort of removes any previous stress I've had. I feel like a new person afterwards and I have a whole new perspective on life.

You really need to get with the program here, lol.


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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Shroomsandstuff]
    #28119702 -

Shroomsandstuff said:
If they help speed up any sort of progress, even if still takes years of work, the term "shortcut" would be accurate, according to the basic definitions of the word.

shortcut (n):
1. a shorter alternative route
2. an accelerated way of doing or achieving something

Do you not find it to be the case that psychedelics can help speed up one's personal growth, the process of getting through depression or other mental health issues, or anything else like that?


In that sense, yes. I think "shortcut" just sounds too negative, like cheating. We've all been told that it requires hard work to achieve our goals and therefore we despise people who take the easy route. It's the capitalist mantra of more labor means more reward. But often that's totally not true and the easier way might be much more efficient.
Anyway, I see the mushrooms more like a catalyst, enabling reactivity and promoting change. They just set things in motion.


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Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood.
-Marie Curie


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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: rocky_raccoon] * 1
    #28120135 -

I think they are tools, not shortcuts.

Most of us have met people who have done plenty of psychedelics and seem less "improved" and/or less "enlightened" than when they started.

I believe they are tools that can correct course. And when you're wildly off course, correcting it can seem like a shortcut, because of how quickly you can get back on the correct road when you use psychedelics with the right intention (right being subjective here to the user's needs).


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Edited by Socrateshroom (01/01/23 04:50 PM)

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #28120668 -

The obvious question for me to ask is how old are you and how fucked up were you before you tried mushrooms?

They might have different binifits for different age groups and how fucked up people might be

I think they can help loosen up your habits and the priorities that are based on your personality, or self perseptions.

I think it relates to ego death/dissolution for that sort of goals for their use.

But I don't know if it's the same if you don't experience ego death.

I suppose that just ego dissolution would be enough.

But that's assuming that you even need help.

If you are young and have a pretty well functional path and opportunity for a good outcome, then no need to fuck with a good thing.

If you are young and have a good developed mindset already, then you can just keep it up and don't really want to make too many changes anyway.

But after you get older you might binifite from breaking loose the old views you have been stuck to by habit or whatever the mechanism is.

That would bring me to my second point.

If you are already spiritual, or disciplined in some sort of philosophy and healthy practices, like you seem to be, then you are ahead of the game already.

But for someone older who has a limited world view and influence, then they may be stuck in there ways and not even be able to find interest in going anywhere, much less find a shortcut.

So mushrooms can spark new interests in people and get them questioning the possibilities again.

I guess the mechanism would be thought to lay in neuroplasticity.

Mushrooms have links to this.

But I don't know if they are a shortcut in the way you are saying people claim them to be, and I can definitely see how these clams could be "cringe" as you say.

I think they are definitely a shortcut to the beginning of the path.

They seem to be the gateway to the courtyard at the foot of many paths.

But I think that you are somewhat correct in them not being a jump forward on a path, but they definitely spark your interest in considering the possibility that any of these paths actually lead anyplace worth going to.

They could also help you find something you may have missed while you are on the path too.

It makes sense what you say about them being a photograph of the grand canyon, or a map on a piece of paper, but not the actual thing.

But if you see the map, or are inspired by the photograph, then you may decide to actually do something about putting things in order and choosing to set out.

And you will make good progress if neuroplacticity is their to help you form new pathway and gain a better framework to reinforce your new goals and anything you descover to help you walk that new path.

Renewal of the mind so you can introduce a new discipline and philosophy that better matches the new path you have prioritized after the mushrooms brought you to the courtyard to judge what path might seem promising for you to attempt.

But if you are already on a good path, or don't want to change course, then they are limited by you not taking advantage of anything they might offer in the way of helping you get past unhealthy mind sets and habits.

You don't need them if you are already good, and like you said, that comes through work, but they can help you reorient yourself if you are stuck in a bad place.

Just like a map helping to let you see your options, by freeing your mind from yourself, and inspiring new interests.

And I don't agree that you are not well traveled just by reading national geographic.

I would argue that you are probably more well traveled by your special access to places you might not be able to experience, even if you were able to travel.

But that wasn't your point, I just take special offense because I pride myself in the fact that I've read literally hundreds of national geographic from cover to cover.

Don't underestimate the magical powers of the Natural Geography!!!


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Just take um like you get um.

Those ephemeral spasms of infinity, in suspended animation, born across a boundless ether of existential misery aloft a revelry (of awe) for the abhorrently sublime.

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Sub-Easy]
    #28120824 -

I think for me, neuroplasticity is definitely an important point. Like you wrote, as I was getting older I felt stuck in the way I see the world. Mushrooms seem to break up this inner routine and help me get new points of view.
I only took small doses so far, nothing even close to what I imagine ego-death would feel like. It was more like a vacation from my anxious and depressed self. A slight distancing. But the real magic for me comes in the days after the trip, sorting out and integrating old beliefs and new findings building a more flexible and resilient mind. And that's exactly what I need compared to SSRIs, which just made me stable but didn't provide this flexibility.


--------------------
Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood.
-Marie Curie


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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: rocky_raccoon]
    #28121131 -

I think there are some drawbacks, if you want to think of them with such a negative term.

Maybe "new challenges" is better.

I've lost interest in the mondaine, along side of being able to see past the magicians tricks. So being lost in the magic is harder.

The illusion is gone. Or maybe delusions.

Simple example: movies

I see the process, writing style, production type side more clearly, so I don't get lost in the magic as easy.

It just seems fake, rather than believable.

But there are many small things like that that I miss.

Also, I have a thirst for knowledge and understanding, and of course, no one to share it with, so I'm exited to explore, and much more standoffish towards doing mundane things like the grunt work.

I'm just so much more interested in the technical side of stuff so I'm not as content with spending my time just pounding away at some simple task.

That's not a good thing if you are poor so you can't afford to buy expensive material for a complex project, or you have to work a mindless job.

It's much better to go through life dull, subdued, and content with being uninterested.

It's like if you have a slave that is inspired to invent great things but you have him pounding away at rocks all day.

He would be better of to have remained ignorant and uneducated sence he can't get beyond his chains.

Also, there are some difficulties in having so many interests and an active mind, rather than just being simple minded with repetitive, comfortable routine.

Lots of people have learned to live a dull, mindless labor, routine life with little hope for greater things, and mushrooms, and I would say neuroplacticity will mess with that mind, trained to not think, and just struggle through the endless days of their limited station in life.

Of course it also breaks those self imposed boundaries and can inspire people to attempt more involved pursuits.

I think their is actually a danger involved in mushrooms in the form of having too active of a mind, and too much going on in every direction.

I don't know much about the science on that, but I guess it's kinda like ADD. I think it actually has a pathology and diagnosis in the medical literature.

Neuroplacticity probably would be a player in that mechanism.

Like how curious a child is, and eventually they must solidify the pathways in the mind and start to prune and establish fewer, but more robust pathways.

So that might be the "integration" process, but it's still a limited opportunity to get it right, and facilitate the best process of what pathways are reinforced in the end process.

Obviously it's going to cause some challenges while in the active, inspired, and curiosity stage, and then in the final judgement, pruning, and final outcome stage as things settle back into the solid and stable default settings again.

I think it's been okay for most people throughout the use of the drug, and it's a great way to take a journey, not only onto the mind, but also into the divergent possibilities for your own life paths.


--------------------
Just take um like you get um.

Those ephemeral spasms of infinity, in suspended animation, born across a boundless ether of existential misery aloft a revelry (of awe) for the abhorrently sublime.

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #28121186 -

Sometimes shortcuts take you through less safe areas, or have less developed roads. When taking a previously unknown shortcut that is not even on the map, you need to be more careful than when you are on a main road. But you get to see things you would not have otherwise seen.

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #28121212 -

Socrateshroom said:
I think they are tools, not shortcuts.

Most of us have met people who have done plenty of psychedelics and seem less "improved" and/or less "enlightened" than when they started.

I believe they are tools that can correct course. And when you're wildly off course, correcting it can seem like a shortcut, because of how quickly you can get back on the correct road when you use psychedelics with the right intention (right being subjective here to the user's needs).


Seemed like a shortcut in my case. I used them with the intent of healing, but before I used them I had no idea of what healing meant and really had no idea what was lurking inside. I wasn't open to experiencing myself and even if I had been, I probably wouldn't have accepted what I saw. Tripping changed me and opened the door into my own mind, but I have still had to do a great deal of work on my own.

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: TerdleMountain]
    #28121272 -

without a treatment plan, it is more like gambling than a short cut.
Most people think that not buying a lotto ticket is a bit crazy, because, how would you win if you did not at least buy a ticket.
Even Bingo is never won by non-participants.

maybe it's like bingo.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28121347 -

redgreenvines said:
without a treatment plan, it is more like gambling than a short cut.
Most people think that not buying a lotto ticket is a bit crazy, because, how would you win if you did not at least buy a ticket.
Even Bingo is never won by non-participants.

maybe it's like bingo.


Having INTENTION is always good for anything. Like, what do you plan on achieving through taking psychedelics or doing anything else in life? Do you want to have some fun and drop some acid? Are you looking for the answers for your life? Are you maybe experiencing some anxiety or depression and want to get to the root of the issue?

I think like most things in life, you get more out of something if you set an intention in which to manifest.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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