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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #28088452 -

During a seminal trip in college, the following anomalies happened:

Right as we started to come up, my friend, who went to college in another state but was visiting me, stated, "The man from Wshington will get in our way". We looked at him like ghe was nuts. Later, during the peak, as we were driving under the student union, a truck blocked our path, as it was unloading. As we waited, we noticed the lettering on the side of the truck: Washington Produce.

Same trip - we were walking around campus, 3 of us. We seemed to wordlessly communicate as we walked. As we did, we wordlessly agreed to separate to see if we could continue our telepathic state. We did separate for about 20 minutes and joined together again at a telepathically decided place and time. After the trip, we recalled the exeprience, including a joke we shared while apart.

Also: My cat. She knows. Other people with cats have had similar experiences. My cat in HS purred and stared at the wall for half an hour or more when I was tripping. My current cat heads for the hills when I am tripping. I can be doing the eyes closed thing on the bed. She jumps up and immediately freaks and runs away.

The most definitive of these are the first two.

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #28088461 -

TheStallionMang said:
I've got someone in my life that has a real hard time with facing even the smallest wrongs they do.  Although they do a lot of things that make dealing with them impossible, they believe they do nothing wrong and make every excuse possible for themselves instead of actually just dealing with the issue.  They love to create unnecessary problems and stir shit up then pretend to be the victim if anything is said about their behavior.
They also somehow believe themselves to be an enlightened person and also think taking shrooms to help with anything is cheating.

I believe that this person has to do a lot of mental gymnastics to keep up the appearance of feeling like a really awesome person and they know the shrooms are gonna show em things they have work very hard to stop from thinking about.  In other words, I believe they know their cognitive dissonance would make for a pretty harsh trip


Shit i hear that lol, reminds me a lot of my ex, except she will take some mushrooms or LSD rarely, but always skimps on dosage and never wants to go higher because she knows she'll have to face her shit, she just wants to have a "good time" without facing herself.


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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Sabnock]
    #28088610 -

I have wondered about the effect psychedelics on a narcissistic personality disorder. MMDA might be more useful than psilocybin or LSD. The intensity of the defenses that narcissists use to defend against an extremely fragile self-image and self-esteem might be too much? MMDA allows people to confront emotions without fear.

Interesting: a search brings up this less than scientific discussion:
https://www.quora.com/What-happens-when-narcissists-use-psychedelics

as well as this from a journal:

Original Investigation
Published: 29 May 2020
Broadening Your Mind to Include Others: The relationship between serotonergic psychedelic experiences and maladaptive narcissism
Valerie van Mulukom, Ruairi E. Patterson & Michiel van Elk
Psychopharmacology volume 237, pages2725–2737 (2020)Cite this article

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Abstract
Rationale
Recent research has shown that classical serotonergic psychedelic (CSP) drugs may be used to ameliorate certain health issues and disorders. Here we hypothesised that CSP experiences, through their ability to induce awe and ego-dissolution, may result in a reduction of maladaptive narcissistic personality traits, such as a strong sense of entitlement and lack of empathy.

Objectives
Our objective was to investigate whether high levels of awe and ego dissolution during recent CSP experiences are associated with currently lower levels of maladaptive narcissism.

Methods
In this pre-registered high-powered (N = 414) study, we used an online retrospective survey asking participants to describe their ‘most awe-inspiring, impressive, significant, or emotionally intense experience’, as well as several validated scales to test our hypothesis.

Results
A statistically significant mediation model indicated that recent CSP-induced experiences were associated with currently increased feelings of connectedness and affective empathetic drive, which in turn were associated with decreased exploitative-entitled narcissism. This relationship held even when taking into account sensation-seeking personality features. We found no evidence for feelings of ego dissolution to have the same effect.

Conclusions
Feelings of awe, but not ego dissolution, during recent CSP experiences were associated with increased feelings of connectedness and empathy, which in turn were associated with decreased levels of maladaptive narcissism personality features. This suggests that CSPs hold therapeutic potential for disorders involving connectedness and empathy, such as the treatment of pathological narcissism, and that the induction of connectedness through awe appears to be the driving force behind this potential.

VERY INTERESTING! This diagnosis is known as one of the toughest to make any headway in treatment. Exciting potential here.


Edited by Neurotech (12/08/22 01:18 PM)

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Neurotech]
    #28088734 -

so in a clinical & therapeutic context.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: TheStallionMang] * 1
    #28089158 -

TheStallionMang said:
It's a shortcut in the same way as using a hammer instead of your hands to drive a nail


laule.

i think it's a shortcut for meditation, who has a life time for that shit?

i know, that's why monks don't have any real american jobs.

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: orphee]
    #28089176 -

I made time for it, and still make time for it.
Also I use psychedelics, each has a different nature (meditation vs psychedelics), but both do work with something like the dream state.

neither is a short cut for the other, however, drugs will drop you into a dream-like state fairly reliably - and block you from sober activity until finished, while meditation is not always reliable or successful - though it will not interfere with sober activity. i.e. it does not make you stoned.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28089449 -

redgreenvines said:
I made time for it, and still make time for it.
Also I use psychedelics, each has a different nature (meditation vs psychedelics), but both do work with something like the dream state.

neither is a short cut for the other, however, drugs will drop you into a dream-like state fairly reliably - and block you from sober activity until finished, while meditation is not always reliable or successful - though it will not interfere with sober activity. i.e. it does not make you stoned.


Well with Psychedelics, imo it's important to keep in mind that they have phases and active effects and durations. And not all Psychedelics are the same. Personally Aya for me seems like potentially the most "lucid"/soberish one considering not only how clearheaded DMT is but also it's natural to the body and when consumed orally does seem to feel more like a neurotransmitter/neuromodulator to me personally, but also there's the MAO-A inhibition which raises levels of Serotonin and Noradrenaline which increases the clearheadedness and soberish-nature of the headspace. Yes these things have active effects and they can get in the way of some things particularly depending on dosage and what phase you're in (like trying to do things during the come up? Probably not lol, but once things stabilize, personally i'm golden lol), but to me it seems more sobering compared to the LSD or Psilocybin experiences i've had. Also it's worth mentioning that Aya has no tolerance, can be used whenever, and can be altered/flavored/enhanced in a wide variety of ways depending on what is mixed with it in terms of "admixture plants" or heck even supplements technically.

As far as meditation goes, i don't meditate, i don't do yoga, and i don't do tantra, all i know is when i'm in these states, those sorts of things seem to just spontaneously happen to me, i can reach states of meditation or yoga or tantra that i really don't know anything about other than they're experienceable/inducible, the Aya is like an amplifier of mind and body states, ime. But it does take a certain amount of openness/receptivity and flow, ime, hence one reason i really like music and sound while on Aya, it is fantastic at inducing a variety of states and emotions.


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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28089785 -

redgreenvines said:
I made time for it, and still make time for it.
Also I use psychedelics, each has a different nature (meditation vs psychedelics), but both do work with something like the dream state.

neither is a short cut for the other, however, drugs will drop you into a dream-like state fairly reliably - and block you from sober activity until finished, while meditation is not always reliable or successful - though it will not interfere with sober activity. i.e. it does not make you stoned.


you're right, but in reference of this work society you gotta make time to have time, at least for an OCD person like me.

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: orphee] * 1
    #28089808 -

I think it would be easy to mistake them as a shortcut. They are different for different people though.
But consider how I write down my thoughts during a trip; I later use these notes the days/weeks/months after the trip. Using these is certainly a benefit, and it’s likely I wouldn’t have these notes without psychedelics.

Conventional therapy can take years to be effective. I have likened tripping to therapy, albeit extremely condensed. So in that sense, yes, you could call it a ‘shortcut’. Much cheaper too 😂

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Tom66]
    #28089822 -

but realistically, you have spent your whole life getting to the realization at hand, and a whole life is not a short cut, even though it seems very short, no matter how old you get.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Sabnock] * 2
    #28089922 -

Sabnock said:
Shit i hear that lol, reminds me a lot of my ex, except she will take some mushrooms or LSD rarely, but always skimps on dosage and never wants to go higher because she knows she'll have to face her shit, she just wants to have a "good time" without facing herself.


It really just depends.  I've known 3 pretty fucked up people that take psyches. 1 likes to wade in the shallow end so they have a good time and don't have to face their shit but deals with a ton of cognitive dissonance that fucks with her head. 

The other two have do atrocious things to people (1 had an affair with his best friend's wife and 1 extremely abuses their partner physically and mentally) and then eat shrooms with those friends and apparently it doesn't fuck with them, but if it was me I'd be turned inside out by it

Personally, they give me a real desire to do right by everyone and a wish to live with a completely clear conscience, but clearly that's not how it is for everyone


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Pastywhyte's easy no pour agar dishes

Stallion Mang’s Ween covers

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #28090157 -

I cant imagine not facing your shit all the time, anyway, even if your eyes are closed (how can you even get away from it - it is you); so those people dosing low are probably already in the shit they face every day.
I would not minimize the depths of shit that can cover one's living awareness.
Not just for themselves, but for you too, they dose lower, and that way what hits the fan has less noxious results.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28090332 -

redgreenvines said:
but realistically, you have spent your whole life getting to the realization at hand, and a whole life is not a short cut, even though it seems very short, no matter how old you get.


...have you ever had your wisdom teeth pulled?

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Sabnock]
    #28090351 -

Sabnock said:
All i really do is take my Aya, turn out the lights, put on headphones and listen to music while laying in bed, focused inwards and on the music.


veering off a little bit, in the late 90s my friend gave me his used pair of AKG K240 DF studio monitor headphones, i had to replace them last year (amateur soldering and 15 years old rubber band wasn't cutting it anymore) i got the K240 mkII... they're okay...

what make/model you use?

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: orphee]
    #28090486 -

orphee said:
redgreenvines said:
but realistically, you have spent your whole life getting to the realization at hand, and a whole life is not a short cut, even though it seems very short, no matter how old you get.


...have you ever had your wisdom teeth pulled?


yeah (down to 11 per side), too much ehh.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: orphee]
    #28090500 -

orphee said:
Sabnock said:
All i really do is take my Aya, turn out the lights, put on headphones and listen to music while laying in bed, focused inwards and on the music.


veering off a little bit, in the late 90s my friend gave me his used pair of AKG K240 DF studio monitor headphones, i had to replace them last year (amateur soldering and 15 years old rubber band wasn't cutting it anymore) i got the K240 mkII... they're okay...

what make/model you use?


I'm rather poor lol, so i just get what i can get, the last few years i've been using these Koss UR20's i got on amazon, they sound alright to me and have some decent bass but on my computer at least i do have to adjust my equalizer to get things sounding a bit better, also i have to bend/shape them a little bit so they're cling to my head more. I do need to get me some better one's at some point, i just need something that doesn't cost too much, like maybe something within the 40 to 60 to 80 dollar range possibly.


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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #28090524 -

redgreenvines said:
yeah (down to 11 per side), too much ehh.


well, you sound like a full set :wink:

Sabnock said:
I'm rather poor lol, so i just get what i can get, the last few years i've been using these Koss UR20's i got on amazon, they sound alright to me and have some decent bass but on my computer at least i do have to adjust my equalizer to get things sounding a bit better, also i have to bend/shape them a little bit so they're cling to my head more. I do need to get me some better one's at some point, i just need something that doesn't cost too much, like maybe something within the 40 to 60 to 80 dollar range possibly.


you can get AKG for that price, definitely worth the try.

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: orphee] * 1
    #28090605 -

Off topic I know but I love my AKG 240s, after 10+ years still sounding great and still retail for the same price. Very nice to have around for trip music too, definitely consider getting them.

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: asmr]
    #28090962 -

Word, i'll definitely look into them :smile:


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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #28091179 -

If you can master the technique of driving a nail with your hand, then you have achieved far more than you ever could with a hammer

I don't know about a shortcut, maybe a quick tumble down the rocky mountain of spirituality, bumping your head on every profound spiritual lesson along the way.

But they are definitely a good starting point to get you going

I'm still too lazy to learn proper meditation practices, but they have helped me find strange new ways to shift my persription while not tripping

It's some form of mind exercise

Seems to give good results


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Just take um like you get um.

Those ephemeral spasms of infinity, in suspended animation, born across a boundless ether of existential misery aloft a revelry (of awe) for the abhorrently sublime.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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