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Anonymous

more dangerous? *DELETED*
    #2431316 - 03/14/04 02:51 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by mushmaster


Votes accepted from (12/31/69 07:00 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: more dangerous? [Re: ]
    #2431320 - 03/14/04 02:52 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Oops, I read that wrong.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: more dangerous? [Re: ]
    #2431345 - 03/14/04 03:00 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Bit of a meaningless question mush. Do the citizens have access to a squadron of jet aircraft and the power to block all roads exiting the city?

Or is this related to how many people one guy can kill with a vial of sarin gas? Would the kids at Columbine have killed more people if they'd had a vial of sarin gas apeice?


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Anonymous

Re: more dangerous? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2431381 - 03/14/04 03:16 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Or is this related to how many people one guy can kill with a vial of sarin gas?

well... how should we phrase the question?

should it be by price?

one man gets the most expensive semi-automatic rifle and the most ammo he can afford while another gets as much sarin and dispersal equipment he can buy with the same amount of money.

weight?

one gets a 7 pound rifle and 3 pounds of ammunition to go killin' with, while another gets 4 and a half kilos of sarin and a sprayer?

volume?

Would the kids at Columbine have killed more people if they'd had a vial of sarin gas apeice?

since a vial of sarin would be cheaper, smaller, and lighter than any of the weapons they used, a vial doesn't seem like a fair amount. how about with as much sarin as they could have bought instead of guns? that might be fairer. we're trying to equate like with like here.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: more dangerous? [Re: ]
    #2431386 - 03/14/04 03:20 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

well... how should we phrase the question?

How many people would have died at columbine if the attackers had been armed with

A) Automatic rifles and handguns

or

B) A vial of sarin gas apeice.

with as much sarin as they could have bought instead of guns?

The aum cult spent millions trying to develop Sarin. Do you think two kids living at home are going to be able to afford gallons of it? Get real. They wouldn't even be able to afford enough to fill a vial.


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Anonymous

Re: more dangerous? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2431416 - 03/14/04 03:31 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"How many people would have died at columbine if the attackers had been armed with

A) Automatic rifles and handguns

or

B) A vial of sarin gas apeice."

that's not a fair question. a vial of sarin is in no way interchangable with automatic rifles and handguns. if sarin was legal, it would be quite cheap, and for the price of a bunch of heavy firearms, one could buy much more than a vial of sarin.

The aum cult spent millions trying to develop Sarin.

that's because it's a highly restricted substance. if it wasn't, they could have bought it from ortho or dupont.

Do you think two kids living at home are going to be able to afford gallons of it? Get real.

if it was legal they could. check the prices on similar, but less toxic (and therefore legal, though controlled) pesticides, like chlorpyrifos.

we're talking about the threat that would be posed if sarin was legal for private citizens to buy and own. if it was legal, it could be bought very cheaply from a mass-producing chemical supplier, instead of trying to make it oneself. making a bottle of household cleaning ammonia would run you over a million dollars easily. but it's legal, so you can buy it for $3.99 at the local supermarket.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: more dangerous? [Re: ]
    #2431432 - 03/14/04 03:38 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

if sarin was legal, it would be quite cheap

How do you figure? Why would you make nerve gas cheap? I'd make it 10 million bucks a vial.


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Anonymous

Re: more dangerous? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2431456 - 03/14/04 03:45 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

i wouldn't make it. i don't make my own toothpaste either. that would be expensive and time consuming. instead i buy it from a specialist. same for soap. and beer. and ammonia. and bleach. and gasoline. and paper. and tea....

note that because these things are legal, i can buy them legally from someone who has invested the research and equipment to mass produce them cheaply.

i also buy my pesticides from a supplier. i don't make my own. to do so would be incredibly expensive and dangerous. instead i go to the local nursury and get a bottle for less than 10 bucks.... just like i'd be able to do if sarin was legal to buy and own.

understand?


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: more dangerous? [Re: ]
    #2431466 - 03/14/04 03:47 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Do you guys even know what semi-automatic means?


--------------------


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Anonymous

Re: more dangerous? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2431467 - 03/14/04 03:48 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

i do.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: more dangerous? [Re: ]
    #2431470 - 03/14/04 03:48 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

instead i go to the local nursury and get a bottle for less than 10 bucks.... just like i'd be able to do if sarin was legal to buy and own.

WTF? Are you seriously saying you are going to sell sarin nerve agent down at the garden center for 10 bucks?

WHY?


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: more dangerous? [Re: ]
    #2431471 - 03/14/04 03:49 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

And did you mean "prevent" or "present"?


--------------------


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Anonymous

Re: more dangerous? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2431475 - 03/14/04 03:50 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

present. that's a critical typo. i'll start a new thread.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: more dangerous? [Re: ]
    #2431485 - 03/14/04 03:53 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Good idea. The voting wasn't going how you'd expected was it.


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Anonymous

Re: more dangerous? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2431498 - 03/14/04 03:56 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

WTF? Are you seriously saying you are going to sell sarin nerve agent down at the garden center for 10 bucks?

i wouldn't. for one, i understand what a risk that would create for people, and two, i certainly don't have the capital to start such a business.

perhaps if i was a saudi millionaire and islamic militant terrorist with a strong hatred of the united states, i might differ. or maybe if i was working for and financially supported by a foreign government opposed to the united states. another possibility.


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 470
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: more dangerous? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2431500 - 03/14/04 03:57 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Do you guys even know what semi-automatic means?




I'd say we could ask our resident self-appointed gun expert alex, but I'm sure he'd just ignore the question.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: more dangerous? [Re: ]
    #2431514 - 03/14/04 04:00 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

i wouldn't

So why are you saying you should be able to buy nerve agent at the nursery? Do you think grandmas going to walk down the aisle going "Greenfly spray, baby bio, nerve agent"?


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Anonymous

Re: more dangerous? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2431526 - 03/14/04 04:04 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

i wouldn't supply it. that doesn't mean that someone else might.

if i was a well to do terrorist organization, or a foriegn government intent on reeking havoc in the united states, and sarin was legal... it'd be a pretty good strategy for me to just open up a sarin factory in new york or maybe california and sell sarin as cheap as i could... maybe i'd even give it away for free. do you not see that as a possibility if sarin was a legal substance?


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: more dangerous? [Re: ]
    #2431533 - 03/14/04 04:07 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

You can't see any difference between something being legal and it being on the shelf at the supermarket?


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Anonymous

Re: more dangerous? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2432345 - 03/14/04 09:14 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

well since rifles aren't available OTC at the supermarket, it's not really fair to use that as a basis for comparison with sarin. i've never based a comparison on the idea that sarin would be completely non-controlled. for a fair comparison, we'd have to compare sarin under the same sorts of controls that rifles currently are subject to, such as background checks, minimum age requirements, etc. even with those controls, sarin would be more dangerous.

there are currently 3 threads on this subject and it's really getting a little old and taking up board space. usually these little things don't use up as much board space, but this is getting rather silly. if you honestly believe that sarin gas is less dangerous than a semi-automatic rifle, i've been around here long enough to know that there's probably little chance of you changing your opinion. i'm throwing in the towel on this one.


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