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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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columbine ..bush HS??...
    #4748725 - 10/03/05 12:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

http://www.alternet.org/story/24801/

is it just me..or does anyone else see a bastion of neoconservatism here??...if every HS in amerikkka was like that back then..its no wonder that naziism and fascism are so popular now...needless to say..applying this model to the whole country..indeed the whole world..has done nothing to stop future eric harrises and dylan klebolds...pushing aside (very plausible) LIHOP/conspiracy theories..mohammed atta&co are good examples.. neither were the columbine victims any more innocent than the "little eichmanns" of 9/11...


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4748748 - 10/03/05 12:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I knew all along it had something to do with the way they were treated at school. It didn't surprise me at all. I knew all too well what it was like to be one of the "untouchables" at school, and if I had gotten it as bad as they did, who knows? It may have been me all over the news. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the teenage years are particularly difficult, especially if you're a social outcast like they were.


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InvisibleDNKYD
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4748838 - 10/03/05 12:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You mean our school systems aren't only failing, they're producing homicidal hormone-filled pubescent teens?! Holy #2 pencil, Batman!


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Offlinekotik
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: DNKYD]
    #4749034 - 10/03/05 01:50 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i cant say it never crossed my mind when i was in middle school. and i dont mean just once.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: kotik]
    #4749529 - 10/03/05 03:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I agree with the statements of the article however,

the same situation exists in nearly every high school in the country. Not everyone decides to shoot up their school


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: kotik]
    #4749602 - 10/03/05 04:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I completely agree with that article. This shit always happens in black schools. If you talk shit, PREPARE TO HAVE YOUR ASS CAPPED AFTER CLASS. But this kinda shit never happened at white schools, fucking morons. '

The point is: fuck with me, get your ass filled with lead, period.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: downforpot]
    #4750281 - 10/03/05 06:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

:shake:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: badchad]
    #4750319 - 10/03/05 06:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
I agree with the statements of the article however,

the same situation exists in nearly every high school in the country. Not everyone decides to shoot up their school



It exists in varying degrees. I was a social outcast in High School(at least the first couple years), but I was never beat up or had things thrown at me. Some High Schools are worse than others in this regard, and I'd imagine that High Schools in more conservative areas would have a lower threshold for social deviance.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4750517 - 10/03/05 07:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
http://www.alternet.org/story/24801/

is it just me..or does anyone else see a bastion of neoconservatism here??...if every HS in amerikkka was like that back then..its no wonder that naziism and fascism are so popular now...needless to say..applying this model to the whole country..indeed the whole world..has done nothing to stop future eric harrises and dylan klebolds...pushing aside  (very plausible) LIHOP/conspiracy theories..mohammed atta&co are good examples.. neither were the columbine victims any more innocent than the "little eichmanns" of 9/11...




So what you're hinting at here is that everyone who doesn't prescribe to your particular political ideology is a "little eichmann" and worthy of death? If so, then just...




wow.... :shake:


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4750529 - 10/03/05 07:25 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

There is a serious problem in America with the cult of the athlete. It isn't cool to be smart (you would think that would be good in school) or different and anyone who can help win a few football games will get away with murder. I played football in HS and I could do damn near anything I wanted. I skipped classes, left the school for hours at a time, showed up to class high and drunk, and even almost got in a fist fight with the principal. The worst I ever got was detention. I didn't bully anyone and I even defended the "losers", but I knew people who did and they got away with it. The high schools in America have some messed up priorities.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4750635 - 10/03/05 07:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think it was more the festering, uncontrolled hatred that caused them to do it. You know, the same stuff that causes you to write things like this

Quote:

neither were the columbine victims any more innocent than the "little eichmanns" of 9/11...




Justifying the death of highschool kids simply for doing what kids have always done? Thats pretty sick man.

Im jewish and kids used to say the same kinda shit to me but I knew that most of them weren't serious and some do it just to look cool. It just never bothered me. Maybe we should teach kids how to deal with anger issues in a better way?


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4750729 - 10/03/05 08:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
http://www.alternet.org/story/24801/

is it just me..or does anyone else see a bastion of neoconservatism here??...if every HS in amerikkka was like that back then..its no wonder that naziism and fascism are so popular now...needless to say..applying this model to the whole country..indeed the whole world..has done nothing to stop future eric harrises and dylan klebolds...pushing aside (very plausible) LIHOP/conspiracy theories..mohammed atta&co are good examples.. neither were the columbine victims any more innocent than the "little eichmanns" of 9/11...




I think the real thing that creates 'neo'-conservatives is going to college and being surrounded by hordes of brainless trendy left wing fanatics.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4750752 - 10/03/05 08:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

But in reference to Columbine I think there is a flaw in the logic that pressumes that somebody else was ultimately to blame for kids shooting up their school. The problem is teenagers, kids are cruel and the victims at that age aren't emotionally mature enough to handle it. You can't make a policy that forces high school kids or the grown up high school kids that make up most of the work force to be considerate human beings. People just suck and culture will always sway with the majority of insensitive and hard headed people.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Le_Canard]
    #4751420 - 10/03/05 10:24 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
http://www.alternet.org/story/24801/

is it just me..or does anyone else see a bastion of neoconservatism here??...if every HS in amerikkka was like that back then..its no wonder that naziism and fascism are so popular now...needless to say..applying this model to the whole country..indeed the whole world..has done nothing to stop future eric harrises and dylan klebolds...pushing aside  (very plausible) LIHOP/conspiracy theories..mohammed atta&co are good examples.. neither were the columbine victims any more innocent than the "little eichmanns" of 9/11...




So what you're hinting at here is that everyone who doesn't prescribe to your particular political ideology is a "little eichmann" and worthy of death? If so, then just...




wow.... :shake:




i didnt say that they were necessarily worthy of death..merely that their role in their fate cannot be dismissed..and thats true even if one chooses to argue that the columbine bowlers and their adult counterparts werent "little eichmanns" as such...however..given the documented anti-semitism at columbine..that name might not be at all inappropriate...


--------------------


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Catalysis]
    #4751451 - 10/03/05 10:30 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Catalysis said:
I think it was more the festering, uncontrolled hatred that caused them to do it. You know, the same stuff that causes you to write things like this

Quote:

neither were the columbine victims any more innocent than the "little eichmanns" of 9/11...




Justifying the death of highschool kids simply for doing what kids have always done? Thats pretty sick man.

Im jewish and kids used to say the same kinda shit to me but I knew that most of them weren't serious and some do it just to look cool. It just never bothered me. Maybe we should teach kids how to deal with anger issues in a better way?




but how much do those kids really change as they get older??...maybe they stop going "bowling"..but judging from the results of the last election..thats about it...


--------------------


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4751474 - 10/03/05 10:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'm pretty sure those kids did not orchestate a genocide, so little-Eichmann is not quite fair.

You can't place too much blame on the kids who picked on them. Kids pick on other kids, that is a fact of life. I know many kids who were teased unmercifully, and instead of shooting up the school, they ignored the kids or anything else other than killing people.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4751487 - 10/03/05 10:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
Quote:

Catalysis said:
I think it was more the festering, uncontrolled hatred that caused them to do it.  You know, the same stuff that causes you to write things like this

Quote:

neither were the columbine victims any more innocent than the "little eichmanns" of 9/11...




Justifying the death of highschool kids simply for doing what kids have always done?  Thats pretty sick man.

Im jewish and kids used to say the same kinda shit to me but I knew that most of them weren't serious and some do it just to look cool.  It just never bothered me.  Maybe we should teach kids how to deal with anger issues in a better way?




but how much do those kids really change as they get older??...maybe they stop going "bowling"..but judging from the results of the last election..thats about it...




Plenty of assholes voted for Kerry too. My old roomates drove around a big SUV wouldn't recycle, help homeless people or stray animalsand yet were stuanch democrats. How could this be possible?!  :smirk:


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4751553 - 10/03/05 10:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

now that i think about it..some of the ex-bowlers must have graduated to abu ghraib..gitmo..etc...


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4751762 - 10/03/05 11:51 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Personally, I think they should have just stood up to one of these jock terrorist cells and when it erupted into a fight, then start firing and/or slitting throats.

Did they pick their targets, or just kill anybody they saw?


I hope at least that this incident will make bullies think twice in the future.


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4752276 - 10/04/05 01:23 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I don't care about the feelings of some pathetic goth kids in high school.

It is not relevant whatsoever to conducting a planned mass murder.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: looner2]
    #4752295 - 10/04/05 01:25 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Speaking of shootings...

Did you hear all of those gunshots in Oakland tonight? I think five people got "gatted up" on a street corner.


Edited by RandalFlagg (10/04/05 01:26 AM)


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4752484 - 10/04/05 01:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)


Speaking of shootings...

Did you hear all of those gunshots in Oakland tonight? I think five people got "gatted up" on a street corner.


Nope, I might be a little to far away. Hopefully it was at the O. I just love seeing new blood stains on that highly cultural epicenters sidewalk.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: looner2]
    #4753437 - 10/04/05 11:35 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
I don't care about the feelings of some pathetic goth kids in high school.

It is not relevant whatsoever to conducting a planned mass murder.




how can anyone dispute the concept of a little eichmann in the face of such overwhelming evidence as above??...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4753484 - 10/04/05 11:49 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
Quote:

looner2 said:
I don't care about the feelings of some pathetic goth kids in high school.

It is not relevant whatsoever to conducting a planned mass murder.




how can anyone dispute the concept of a little eichmann in the face of such overwhelming evidence as above??...



Maybe by the fact that looner is totally unrepresentative of any of those kids?


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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4753531 - 10/04/05 12:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
Quote:

looner2 said:
I don't care about the feelings of some pathetic goth kids in high school.

It is not relevant whatsoever to conducting a planned mass murder.




how can anyone dispute the concept of a little eichmann in the face of such overwhelming evidence as above??...




I think comparing the man who helped engineer the greatest atrocity this worl has ever seen to bullies in high-school is mind-numbingly absurd.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: looner2]
    #4753589 - 10/04/05 12:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
I don't care about the feelings of some pathetic goth kids in high school.

It is not relevant whatsoever to conducting a planned mass murder.




now there's a gem of logic:

the thoughts and feelings of the people responsible for conducting
a planned mass murder have no bearing on committing the crime.

if the feelings of the culprits aren't relevant, what is?


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: afoaf]
    #4753630 - 10/04/05 12:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
Quote:

looner2 said:
I don't care about the feelings of some pathetic goth kids in high school.

It is not relevant whatsoever to conducting a planned mass murder.




now there's a gem of logic:

the thoughts and feelings of the people responsible for conducting
a planned mass murder have no bearing on committing the crime.

if the feelings of the culprits aren't relevant, what is?




The act.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: looner2]
    #4753634 - 10/04/05 12:24 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think most police and prosecutors would consider the motive to be important to a case.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: looner2]
    #4753647 - 10/04/05 12:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

So, only the act was important, not the things that led to it? Heaven forbid we figure out what needs to be stopped so this doesn't happen over and over.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Redstorm]
    #4753667 - 10/04/05 12:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
So, only the act was important, not the things that led to it? Heaven forbid we figure out what needs to be stopped so this doesn't happen over and over.



That seems to be the attitude behind the War on Terror.


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Redstorm]
    #4753668 - 10/04/05 12:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
So, only the act was important, not the things that led to it? Heaven forbid we figure out what needs to be stopped so this doesn't happen over and over.




Yeah, the kids got picked on. That is what led up to it. It happens all the time when growing up.

Maybe a "suck it up" would work better than coddling their feelings.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Redstorm]
    #4753697 - 10/04/05 12:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
Quote:

looner2 said:
I don't care about the feelings of some pathetic goth kids in high school.

It is not relevant whatsoever to conducting a planned mass murder.




how can anyone dispute the concept of a little eichmann in the face of such overwhelming evidence as above??...




I think comparing the man who helped engineer the greatest atrocity this worl has ever seen to bullies in high-school is mind-numbingly absurd.




failure to draw the comparison is by far more so..especially considering the macrocosmic columbine of amerikkka under the auspices of the ex-bowlers...while it has not yet achieved the magnitude of the last holocaust..the next holocaust is in progress even as we speak ..in iraq..afghanistan..and at hundreds of US military detention centers around the world and on US aircraft carriers...

why is this the case??...for exactly the same reason that the columbine administrators thought that "bowling" was acceptable behaviour in a high school...did eichmann not have that exact same attitude towards his victims??...and eichmann was not alone..when the same attitude is as popular as it is here and was in nazi germany..it would be foolish to expect a different result...


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4753706 - 10/04/05 12:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

No way in hell. Beating up on the kid with the duct-taped classes and Garfield lunchbox is not the same as gassing and shooting millions of Jews.


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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4753708 - 10/04/05 12:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)



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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4753719 - 10/04/05 12:41 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

:lol:

I love that picture.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Redstorm]
    #4753738 - 10/04/05 12:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
No way in hell. Beating up on the kid with the duct-taped classes and Garfield lunchbox is not the same as gassing and shooting millions of Jews.




so now your saying that it is only the act that matters...no..its not the same act..but the same attitude that eventually leads to it..as i tried to point out in my last post...it should be easy to imagine a career path from columbine bowler to abu ghraib interrogator and possibly even worse in the future...


--------------------


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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4753754 - 10/04/05 12:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
it should be easy to imagine a career path from columbine bowler to abu ghraib interrogator and possibly even worse in the future...



Only if you have a very wild imagination.


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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4753759 - 10/04/05 12:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:





doubt it...pls keep the answers on topic or else dont bother to post...OTOH..i will be happy to clarify the post if requested...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4753777 - 10/04/05 12:51 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
it should be easy to imagine a career path from columbine bowler to abu ghraib interrogator and possibly even worse in the future...



Only if you have a very wild imagination.




do you really think that ppl change that much after they graduate HS??...maybe some do..but others dont..and try to move on to..what is in their minds..bigger and better things...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4753843 - 10/04/05 01:00 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
do you really think that ppl change that much after they graduate HS??



I know they do. I've seen it myself in the 4 years that I've been out of High School. They may not change entirely, but I don't see bullies pushing nerds into lockers at the age of 23.


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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4753887 - 10/04/05 01:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
So, only the act was important, not the things that led to it? Heaven forbid we figure out what needs to be stopped so this doesn't happen over and over.



That seems to be the attitude behind the War on Terror.



Thinking the exact same thing. The complete aversion some on this forum have had to even considering the most rational reasons for islamic terrorism are making more and more sense (psychologically at least).


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Ancalagon]
    #4754054 - 10/04/05 01:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

How does one make a guess what the most "rational" reasons for Islamic terrorism might be when those murdering in the name of an imaginary being are by definition acting irrationally?

What do you believe the most rational reason for the latest attacks in Bali might be, for starters?




Phred


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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4754073 - 10/04/05 02:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
it should be easy to imagine a career path from columbine bowler to abu ghraib interrogator and possibly even worse in the future...



Only if you have a very wild imagination.




do you really think that ppl change that much after they graduate HS??...maybe some do..but others dont..and try to move on to..what is in their minds..bigger and better things...




Yes, they do. It is the minority that keep up this sort of behavior after they graduate. I haven't seen this sort of behavior more than a handful of times since I've graduated. As terrible as it is, it is an inevitable feature of the teenage years.


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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Phred]
    #4754267 - 10/04/05 03:00 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


How does one make a guess what the most "rational" reasons for Islamic terrorism might be when those murdering in the name of an imaginary being are by definition acting irrationally?



Shades of gray, Pinky. Though an action itself may be irrational from our perspective (the act of crashing planes into buildings filled with innocents, for instance), that does not mean that there was no rational justification for being angry or despairing, regardless of whether or not you or I feel those emotions on any scale could justify doing what some have done. The actions taken by the Columbine murderers is certainly irrational, but that does not mean they were not justified in feeling the way they did -- knowledge of how they got to feel that way can help prevent another such irrational act from occuring in the future. Likewise with terrorism -- to dismiss it as irrational behaviour and give it no more thought is all too easy. But some of these people, whether you are willing to admit it to yourself or not, DO have valid grievances, even if their vigilante justice is abominable. To completely dismiss such grievances outright is to consign ourselves to a never-ending problem.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Ancalagon]
    #4754616 - 10/04/05 04:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I understand what you are trying to get at. What I am trying to point out (in the case of Islamic terrorism, mind... not in the case of the Columbine murderers) is that discovering the reason irrational people do what they do is not necessarily helpful.

While it may be argued that some of the Islamic terrorists are pissed off at US and Israeli "interference" in the Muslim world, it is patently obvious that a great many of them are pissed off at non-Muslims (and in many cases, even other Muslims who aren't the right flavor of Muslim) in general. How does understanding their grievance help us prevent them from doing what they do -- in the case of Bali for example, seething against Hindus? What about the nine terrorists recently arrested in France before they could carry out their planned attack on the Metro? Or the situation in Thailand? What can Bali do (or stop doing) to prevent further attacks? What can Thailand do? France? Morocco?

What about these guys who freak out over a secretary in a government office having a coffee cup with a picture of Piglet on it? Or the ones seething because they believed the stylized rendition of an ice cream swirl on a Burger King milkshake cup is an insult to Allah? Tell me truthfully, now -- would you have been surprised to hear on the news one day that some jihadi had bombed a Burger King over it?

Me neither.





Phred


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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Phred]
    #4754646 - 10/04/05 04:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I agree completely. While some of their grievances are reasonable (or at least understandable), they are many more that are entirely unreasonable. Many extremist Muslims believe that the Iberian Peninsula should be returned to them. That is not only absurd, but pretty much impossible as well. There are many other things like that that the terrorists want which we can not possibly give them.


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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Redstorm]
    #4754665 - 10/04/05 04:11 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The whole killing innocent women, children, the elderly...etc as a political tool to sway people to their ideas is only successful if you acknowledge that method as reasonable. As such the only proper response is death... to all of them.


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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Ancalagon]
    #4754706 - 10/04/05 04:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

My apologies to Annapurna1 for taking this thread so far off topic. To get back to the points raised in the article about Columbine High School (those interested in discussing terrorist motives can go to this thread http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4756491/an/0/page/0 if they like) ...

Parents have been trying for decades to get schools to take a harder line with bullies. It will never be possible to eliminate bullying (especially of a psychological nature) in schools. But it can certainly be reduced -- if and only if parents demand teachers and school administrators take sterner measures, then support those teachers and administrators when they do.




Phred


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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4755214 - 10/04/05 06:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
do you really think that ppl change that much after they graduate HS??



I know they do. I've seen it myself in the 4 years that I've been out of High School. They may not change entirely, but I don't see bullies pushing nerds into lockers at the age of 23.




in other words..they trade pushing nerds into lockers for waterboarding POWs at gitmo..etc...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4755220 - 10/04/05 06:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
So, only the act was important, not the things that led to it? Heaven forbid we figure out what needs to be stopped so this doesn't happen over and over.



That seems to be the attitude behind the War on Terror.




I would disagree. The whole idea to invading Iraq was to be bring democracy to the Middle East and thus give young muslims something else to do with their lives then then blowing up Westerners. That was the idea anyway.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #4755337 - 10/04/05 07:13 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
do you really think that ppl change that much after they graduate HS??



I know they do.  I've seen it myself in the 4 years that I've been out of High School.  They may not change entirely, but I don't see bullies pushing nerds into lockers at the age of 23.




in other words..they trade pushing nerds into lockers for waterboarding POWs at gitmo..etc...



:shake:


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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4755340 - 10/04/05 07:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
So, only the act was important, not the things that led to it? Heaven forbid we figure out what needs to be stopped so this doesn't happen over and over.



That seems to be the attitude behind the War on Terror.




I would disagree. The whole idea to invading Iraq was to be bring democracy to the Middle East and thus give young muslims something else to do with their lives then then blowing up Westerners. That was the idea anyway.



Something other to do with their lives? Are you suggesting they were blowing themselves up because they were bored?


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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4755628 - 10/04/05 08:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
I would disagree. The whole idea to invading Iraq was to be bring democracy to the Middle East and thus give young muslims something else to do with their lives then then blowing up Westerners. That was the idea anyway.




:rotfl:...or did you mean it as sarcasm...


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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4756701 - 10/05/05 12:34 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
So, only the act was important, not the things that led to it? Heaven forbid we figure out what needs to be stopped so this doesn't happen over and over.



That seems to be the attitude behind the War on Terror.




I would disagree. The whole idea to invading Iraq was to be bring democracy to the Middle East and thus give young muslims something else to do with their lives then then blowing up Westerners. That was the idea anyway.



Something other to do with their lives? Are you suggesting they were blowing themselves up because they were bored?




The theory is because of the repressive conditions in their own country (Saudi Arabia and Egypt mainly)they cannot find work or express themselves politically so they project their hostilities towards the images of Americans and Israelis they are bombarded with everyday on TV and join militant Islam. Iraq, the Lebenon vote and the Palestinian election were supposed to help 'drain the swamp'. I would tend to agree with the idea. Many of the 911 hijackers were angry at their own governments and unable to find jobs in their native countries. There is a large class of young men in the middle east who are unemplyed and have no future. These are the ones who are drawn to radical Islam and violence, it's like most forms of hatred violence, projecting your own problems onto somebody else. They have no power over their own lives in Egypt or Saudi Arabia so they feel they can legitimate and give purpose to their existance by fighting against the infidels of the West.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Offlineleery11
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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4774784 - 10/09/05 12:24 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
The whole killing innocent women, children, the elderly...etc as a political tool to sway people to their ideas is only successful if you acknowledge that method as reasonable. As such the only proper response is death... to all of them.




Your reasoning cannot stop the problem at hand because it is the SAME EXACT REASONING they use against us. It will result in destruction of both parties.


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Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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Re: columbine ..bush HS??... [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4776653 - 10/09/05 01:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:The theory is because of the repressive conditions in their own country (Saudi Arabia and Egypt mainly)they cannot find work or express themselves politically so they project their hostilities towards the images of Americans and Israelis they are bombarded with everyday on TV and join militant Islam. Iraq, the Lebenon vote and the Palestinian election were supposed to help 'drain the swamp'. I would tend to agree with the idea. Many of the 911 hijackers were angry at their own governments and unable to find jobs in their native countries. There is a large class of young men in the middle east who are unemplyed and have no future. These are the ones who are drawn to radical Islam and violence, it's like most forms of hatred violence, projecting your own problems onto somebody else. They have no power over their own lives in Egypt or Saudi Arabia so they feel they can legitimate and give purpose to their existance by fighting against the infidels of the West.




actually..ive seen more of that type of logic from neocon toadys in this country...ill offer as an example the bulk of responses from americans to al-jazeera (dont be surprised that said toadys dont know how to spell)...even better examples are available from the AOL message boards.. unfortunately..however..they require a membership..so i wont post a link...


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