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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Heston's speech from Bowling for Columbine.
    #1974221 - 10/02/03 10:49 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Does anybody have a link to it, or can you tell me where it took place and when?


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Offlined33p
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Re: Heston's speech from Bowling for Columbine. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1974240 - 10/02/03 10:54 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Which one, there are at least 2 in the film. The one which moore intentionally cut to change heston's point or the one which moore intentionally cut to change Heston's point?


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Anonymous

Re: Heston's speech from Bowling for Columbine. [Re: d33p]
    #1974252 - 10/02/03 10:59 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

yeah, no shit.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Heston's speech from Bowling for Columbine. [Re: ]
    #1974269 - 10/02/03 11:05 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

both plz


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Offlined33p
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Re: Heston's speech from Bowling for Columbine. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1974317 - 10/02/03 11:17 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Well here is one the cut and uncut versions. I wouldnt know where to get the ranscripts of the others.

Quote:

Weeping children outside Columbine, explaining how near they had come to death and how their friends had just been murdered before their eyes;



Cut to Charleton Heston holding a musket over his head and happily proclaiming "I have only five words for you: 'from my cold, dead, hands'" to a cheering NRA crowd.

Cut to billboard advertising the meeting, while Moore in voiceover intones: "Just ten days after the Columbine killings, despite the pleas of a community in mourning, Charleton Heston came to Denver and held a large pro-gun rally for the National Rifle Association." [But for this break, the viewer would spot that two different speeches are being merged, since Heston has lavender shirt and tie in the above speech, and white shirt and red tie in the one below.]

Heston (supposedly) continues speech...

"Good Morning. Thank you all for coming, and thank you for supporting your organization. I also want to applaud your courage in coming here today." [Footage of protest outside] "I have a message from the Mayor, Mr. Wellington Webb, the Mayor of Denver. [picture of Webb, then back to Heston] He sent me this, and said 'don't come here. We don't want you here.' I said to the Mayor this is our country, as Americans we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land. [cut to crowd cheering, then back to Heston] Don't come here? We're already here."




Quote:

Thank you. Thank you very much. Good morning. I am very happy to welcome you to this abbreviated annual gathering of the National Rifle Association. Thank you all for coming and thank you for supporting your organization.

I also want to applaud your courage in coming here today. Or course, you have a right to be here. As you know, we've cancelled the festivities, the fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings. This decision has perplexed a few and inconvenienced thousands. As your president, I apologize for that.

But it's fitting and proper that we should do this. Because NRA members are, above all, Americans. That means that whatever our differences, we are respectful of one another and we stand united, especially in adversity.

I have a message from the mayor, Mr. Wellington Webb, the mayor of Denver. He sent me this and said don't come here, we don't want you here. I said to the mayor, well, my reply to the mayor is, I volunteered for the war they wanted me to attend when I was 18 years old. Since then, I've run small errands for my country, from Nigeria to Vietnam. I know many of you here in this room could say the same thing. But the mayor said don't come.

I'm sorry for that. I'm sorry for the newspaper ads saying the same thing, don't come here. This is our country. As Americans, we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land.

They say we'll create a media distraction, but we were preceded here by hundreds of intrusive news crews. They say we'll create political distraction, but it's not been the NRA pressing for political advantage, calling press conferences to propose vast packages of new legislation.

Still they say don't come here. I guess what saddens me the most is how that suggests complicity. It implies that you and I and 80 million honest gun owners are somehow to blame, that we don't care. We don't care as much as they do, or that we don't deserve to be as shocked and horrified as every other soul in America mourning for the people of Littleton.

Don't come here. That's offensive. It's also absurd because we live here. There are thousands of NRA members in Denver, and tens upon tens of thousands in the state of Colorado.

NRA members labor in Denver's factories, they populate Denver's faculties, run Denver corporations, play on Colorado sports teams, work in media across the Front Range, parent and teach and coach Denver's children, attend Denver's churches and proudly represent Denver in uniform on the world's oceans and in the skies over Kosovo at this very moment.

NRA members are in city hall, Fort Carson, NORAD, the Air Force Academy and the Olympic Training Center. And yes, NRA members are surely among the police and fire and SWAT team heroes who risked their lives to rescue the students at Columbine.

Don't come here? We're already here. This community is our home. Every community in America is our home. We are a 128-year-old fixture of mainstream America. The Second Amendment ethic of lawful, responsible firearm ownership spans the broadest cross section of American life imaginable.



So, we have the same right as all other citizens to be here. To help shoulder the grief and share our sorrow and to offer our respectful, reassured voice to the national discourse that has erupted around this tragedy.



One more thing. Our words and our behavior will be scrutinized more than ever this morning. Those who are hostile towards us will lie in wait to seize on a soundbite out of context, ever searching for an embarrassing moment to ridicule us. So, let us be mindful. The eyes of the nation are upon us today.







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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Heston's speech from Bowling for Columbine. [Re: d33p]
    #1974353 - 10/02/03 11:26 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry to say this, but I really don't see how Moore misrepresented Heston's speech. Obviously he cut it, cuz it would be pretty boring to show the whole speech, but he didn't really make it sound like Heston said things he didn't really say. He may have left some of the more positive aspects of the speech out, but he's not required to keep them in there.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Heston's speech from Bowling for Columbine. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1974366 - 10/02/03 11:30 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

but he should be required to tell the truth.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Heston's speech from Bowling for Columbine. [Re: ]
    #1974390 - 10/02/03 11:35 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

What truth is that? That there was more to Heston's speech than what he showed? I think any reasonable viewer could figure that out.


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Anonymous

Re: Heston's speech from Bowling for Columbine. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1974393 - 10/02/03 11:35 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

i'm certain moore sees heston and the NRA as disrespectul, arrogant, and defiant, and edits the film in such a way so that the viewer will almost certainly be left with the same impression.

the whole point of the sequence is to make the NRA appear like a bunch of heartless extremist who do not care that their political agenda is taking the lives of young americans.

it's entirely appropriate of course that moore censored this part:

" I also want to applaud your courage in coming here today. Or course, you have a right to be here. As you know, we've cancelled the festivities, the fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings. This decision has perplexed a few and inconvenienced thousands. As your president, I apologize for that.

But it's fitting and proper that we should do this. Because NRA members are, above all, Americans. That means that whatever our differences, we are respectful of one another and we stand united, especially in adversity."

along with the rest of that part of the speech, in which heston's message was basically one of free speech and free association.

moore's an ass. have you seen the film? watch it. it's propaganda at its finest.


Edited by Anonymous (10/03/03 07:17 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: Heston's speech from Bowling for Columbine. [Re: ]
    #1974408 - 10/02/03 11:39 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

exactly.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Heston's speech from Bowling for Columbine. [Re: ]
    #1974421 - 10/02/03 11:43 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I've listened to the audio of the first half, and I haven't seen anything that would disqualify it as a documentary.

It's a rediculously inaccurate documentary, not something you want to use for actual facts or anything, but I can see how it would technically still be a "documentary".


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Heston's speech from Bowling for Columbine. [Re: ]
    #1974441 - 10/02/03 11:50 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, I have watched it, and of course it's propaganda in the sense that it's trying to convey a political view. So what? It's still more about asking questions and making people think than to give any answers. It's not exactly my favorite film, and I personally am against gun control for the most part, but you guys make it sound like it's on the same level as "Reefer Madness," when clearly it isn't.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Heston's speech from Bowling for Columbine. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1974452 - 10/02/03 11:53 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I see it as some fat guy proffiteering off a tragedy.


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Re: Heston's speech from Bowling for Columbine. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1974456 - 10/02/03 11:54 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I want to see it, the more people talk smack about it here the more I want to know for myself

I think the name says it all, the culture america has now is

"bowling for columbine" asking for trouble??

a culture of fear as I haerd him put it in an interview, I need to see this movie though


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Heston's speech from Bowling for Columbine. [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #1974468 - 10/03/03 12:00 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

He made some decent points on america's addiction to fear.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Heston's speech from Bowling for Columbine. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1974476 - 10/03/03 12:02 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Ya, that was the main point I came away with from the movie. The whole gun thing was really secondary.


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Re: Heston's speech from Bowling for Columbine. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1974862 - 10/03/03 02:16 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah,it was much more than about guns. The people that critisize the movie from what I've seen only talk about the anti gun parts.


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Re: Heston's speech from Bowling for Columbine. [Re: monoamine]
    #1974896 - 10/03/03 03:23 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

The puritans were kicked out of ENGLAND for being too uptight!

Robin Williams



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Re: Heston's speech from Bowling for Columbine. [Re: Rose]
    #1976113 - 10/03/03 01:59 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

moore's an ass. have you seen the film? watch it. it's propaganda at its finest.




I agree with that staement. Moore's film is finely crafted propaganda.

But reading the uncut version of Heston's speech, I cant help but feel the same way about it. It has all the hallmarks of contrived propaganda:

The appeal to the working man, and the military. Strong appeals to patriotism. A definite "Us Vs. Them" mentality. Heston's speech was a political speech. It was propaganda.

what's the difference between moore's propaganda and heston's? honestly I think they cancel eachother out. Hearing only one of their viewpoints (whichever one it is) would give someone an imbalanced perception.

Just for the record I would like to say like many others already have, that this film isnt even about gun control. Moore repeatedly states that gun availability is not the cause of America's crime rate (as in the Canada comparison).

Moore might support gun control. Certain aspects of his film might support it. I disagree with that. I certainly disagree with the little cartoon history of america, but as a tonguew in cheek kind of thing, it was kind of funny.

But I do agree with Moore's main thesis: American mentality is too sensationalist and based in fear.


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