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Anonymous

Post deleted by Anno
    #2423011 - 03/12/04 10:40 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)



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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: ARE YOU WAITING FOR IT? [Re: ]
    #2423126 - 03/12/04 11:11 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I think that if there actually were a rapture, alot of so called "Christians" wouldn't get to join the party. So many claim to be good christians, but do so much fucked up shit in their lives. I guess that's ok though, as long as they "accept Jesus into their hearts". What a copout. I think if Jesus returned, he would be ashamed to see the type of people that so often CLAIM to follow his message, when it's really all just lip service. I'm not a Christian, but I think I live a more moral life that most people who claim to be.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: ARE YOU WAITING FOR IT? [Re: ]
    #2423206 - 03/12/04 11:41 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Human beings, in general, seem to have a natural tendency towards inclination of spreading happiness, usually of the kind that they themselves, have personally gained and benefited from--regardless of how warped or insane it may be, to others.
What determines the type of happiness and solace an individual will genuinely accept, is dependant on the type of 'brain filters' that one has developed throughout their life, by personal influences, environmental factors, unique psyche, education and training and so on. So, naturally, if one is raised and accustomed to living amongst folks who strictly adhere to biblical dogma and whatever other fabricated beliefs (mis)interpreted from the bible, and other people as well; then of course he or she will hold more fast to those particular beliefs than other beliefs, because they feel more comfortable, thus more 'right'. This (somewhat) of a phenomenon just goes to show how incredibly powerful the mind is when it comes to the outcome of the shape, texture, shades, tints, and tones of your individual reality--especially during your early ages.

Compare this assertation to Man's civilization.. Our civilization as a whole, is still fairly 'young'. We haven't even been on this planet for a quarter of the time Dinosaurs lived here. During the Biblical ages..the age of civilization would be comparable to that of a moderately young child, today. Children still haven't learned the hard scientific facts in School yet, as they're not 'ready' (by our standards) and developed enough to learn or take any scientific training, yet. So, like the sponges they are, they absorb what they can gather from their own experiences. Needless to say, Children usually always come up with an abundance of wild ideas and speculations, due to their massive imagination which is unrestricted by the boundaries of logic, science, and so on.
As of today, I think it's fairly reasonable to state that at least most of Man's civilization's age is comparable to that of a much more matured and knowledgeable young adult, or at least teen. We're rapidly gaining more and more scientific knowledge, and with that, usually comes with more and more extinction of older notions and beliefs. And yet, our young immaturity still shows itself as we bomb our own planet and blindly choose to buy poison to slowly kill our bodies with, perpetuate negativity, and so on. So, we still have alot to learn, just like most 'young people'.

With all of the above, it's fairly understandable how easilly one can put their utmost and undying faith into a belief that creates happiness within them, even when it goes against the laws of logic, science, physics, and 'common sense'; such as 'rapture'. People have a tendency to exhibit a certain behavior that is also prevalent in all of the Animal Kingdom--in fact, most animals including us, learn this way--and that is, "Monkey see, monkey do". Combine this concept with the matter of human's natural tendency to spread happiness and positivity. See where I'm going? This creates the result of entire masses delving into cults and believing deeply into the fallacious trust, with all the confidence in the world, that they will just go 'poof' and disappear off the planet.

If you remember what I pointed out in the analogy of Man's civilization's age and children's age, then maybe you can see even clearer how easier it is for certain folks to put more faith into such a belief when they haven't recieved or undergone a high level of quality education, formal training, and gained scientific understanding of the world and it's mechanics. Now, of course, I'm not saying that Man, as of today, has all the knowledge of the entire Universe. The finite cannot comprehend the infinite. This leaves more room for speculation, and when that occurs, this is where people can get 'loopy', and that's fine, they're allowed to. If it brings them happiness, then so be it. I, personally, don't have any problem with that. And just to clarify, I don't have anything against in putting your energy and hope into a higher power, and believing in God in whatever form or shape. Personally, I believe in God, strongly. But, that's a whole nother story..

:wink:


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: ARE YOU WAITING FOR IT? [Re: ]
    #2423236 - 03/12/04 11:51 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

aww, man, my dad is one of these people... and one thing the article had right, is that it's really hard to get him to care about world events, except those he sees as "signs of the rapture"... a few years ago, when the current war between israel and the Palestinians started up again, my dad was gleefully running around saying "its here! its here!"... lately he's been putting the date of the rapture at sometime around 2017... a few years ago, it was the end of the mayan calendar, 2012, a few years before that, it was midnight dec 31st 1999...

the beautiful thing about rapture predictions, theres always new information being discovered in the bible that pushes the date back further, so when a predicted day comes and goes, nobody takes this as disproval of prophecy, they take it as a flaw in their own calculations...


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Anno [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #2423278 - 03/12/04 12:01 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)



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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: ARE YOU WAITING FOR IT? [Re: ]
    #2423297 - 03/12/04 12:06 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

and therefore be ye always ready, for no man knoweth the day when it shall come, not even the son of man...

~
(for a hilarious look at judgement day (& beyond) cjeck out robert heinlein's _JOB: a comedy of justice_ )
~
~


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: ARE YOU WAITING FOR IT? [Re: ]
    #2423307 - 03/12/04 12:08 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

This thought of entirely escaping future world calamities appeals to many. It has caused such believers to adopt an untroubled attitude toward world conditions.

"The big difference between the scientists and these evangelicals," says religious writer George Plagenz, "is that, while the former are worried that the world could come to an end soon, the Christians are literally excited over the prospect. . . .




:rolleyes: :nonono:


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: ARE YOU WAITING FOR IT? [Re: ]
    #2423320 - 03/12/04 12:11 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I wouldn't want to try and predict the end of the world, cuz if everyone thought the world was about to end, there'd probably be a lot of fucking going on, and if I was wrong about the date, that'd mean a major population explosion to come.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinekushlover
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Re: ARE YOU WAITING FOR IT? [Re: ]
    #2423871 - 03/12/04 02:20 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bloodflower6 said:
I often find it amusing how many of these so called christians never actually read the bible for themselves and just trust their preachers to tell them what's right. Maybe it's just me, but if I'm laying on my death bed I want to know that I've found things out for myself and haven't merely trusted in somone else. I'm not saying I'm right of course, these are just my opinions. It's up to us as individuals to choose our own paths.




This is exactly how I feel. But I think its also wise to not just trust one specific book (i.e. the bible). The reality is that we are all stuck in the same position with the same ultimate question: "What is the meaning of life?" It is a question for which people always have and always will want an answer. This creates a very powerful demand vaccum. And as is well known, where there is demand there will be a supply. Hence the vast amounts of relegion and philosophical ideas that have evolved over time. This also creates a golden opportunity for control over other people as has been done with many religions throughout history. I was actually raised as a christian, but after some deep soul searching and study of other ideas, I felt it was virtually impossible to take one line of thought as THE answer. All have good points and others that just don't add up. When it comes down to it, I know that there is something greater than ourselves. Whether that be a self-aware god or just the universe of which we are an aware part, I don't know. I do feel that religion is good, because some people need it for guidance in leading a good life. For me I feel I lead a good life without needing constant guidance from a single source. One thing I can say for certainty that I do KNOW is that I don't KNOW the answer to that universal question, "What is the meaning of life?".


--------------------
What I'm about to tell you is the truth.......
What I just told you is a lie.


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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: ARE YOU WAITING FOR IT? [Re: kushlover]
    #2424016 - 03/12/04 02:55 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Could it happen? Sure, why not? We are all fools, none of us know for sure.


Will christians be saved? *laffs* Why? They dont believe in Christ, they believe in the Catholic/Christian version of Christ....what do I see in most christians? Evil, Sin, Hate, and Contradiction. most of them are looking to convert people, and wait for Revelations to come true. How foolish of one.

Wouldnt it be the true followers of christ, not christians, who would be saved?


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: ARE YOU WAITING FOR IT? [Re: tekramrepus]
    #2425164 - 03/12/04 09:04 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Why do i get the feeling Frog is the next person to post on this thread.... :rolleyes:


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OfflineEvilGir
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Re: ARE YOU WAITING FOR IT? [Re: Spokesman]
    #2425196 - 03/12/04 09:21 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

not read all of it but to me the rapture sounds like alien abduction


--------------------
Fighting the man the best way I can.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: ARE YOU WAITING FOR IT? [Re: ]
    #2425334 - 03/12/04 10:17 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Here's the thing with the bible and scriptures, I don't think they are supposed to be taken literally. There are messages involved in all the stories, and that's how we humans tried to explain the unexplainable, through stories.

There is a book called the odyssey that was "written" by homer. actually, Homer never wrote this at all, they were stories that were memorized and passed down through the years.  As with all story telling (including gossip) each person's own interpretations is added to this.

First of all, the Bible was written in Hebrew, and it wasn't even the Bible in the beginning.  under that "certain God" the jews were the first religion. Then the bible came afterwards, so it's really not that authentic.  Going further, there were many people who wrote about jesus and told stories that had a meaning to them. so to realy get a great representation of the bible, seek out an author that knows hebrew and tries his best to translate it to english.  This way when you use the scriptures as evidence, it's way more authentic than the simplified english version.

Key word, VERSION.  look at your bible, it says King James Version.  See what I'm saying?  there's been too much influence on the "scriptures" that really if used as "proof" or evidence loses it's weight fast. But the messages the Bible tries to convey to us, is still somewhat relevant.  The Bible, a book...a good book....but not the ONLY book.

Be it a stick that came back when it was going to float away, the seas parting for moses, or jesus great saying "of ye who hasn't sinned, cast the first stone," these are stories with a meaning attached. I think it's the meaning that is important.

DO you think that the heavens will actuyally literally "part"

our sky isn't a solid object, it's gases, and tons of them.  what would "parting" mean?  It isn't that i don't "believe" in the Bible it's jsut that I'm using it in a way that it makes the most sense to me.  And we can do this with a book, because we have a brain that can think the way we do.

" just don't like sheep who follow blindly. Preachers tell of this rapture but never back it up with scripture. They just trust that people will take there word for it."

:frown:    you can still like a person whether they "believe" in something or not can't you???

"All have good points and others that just don't add up. "

add up to what?  aren't the good points enough.  I have seen religion as an arrow that points to a certain direction in the human mind.  It talks about ethics and suggestions of ways to lead an enjoyable life.  isn't that what we really really want?

it's like the meaning of life??  well...what do you want?  to enjoy yourselves while you are here, no matter what age we live in.  All the ideas are to be added up, and then you fill in what you need.  lots of religions have many ideas and themes to them can if the reader really thinks about, can LEARN from.  this is a cool thing is it not?

sure you can say one is a follower...but then again...aren't we all? :grin:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineFrog
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Re: ARE YOU WAITING FOR IT? [Re: Spokesman]
    #2425349 - 03/12/04 10:21 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Spokesman said:
Why do i get the feeling Frog is the next person to post on this thread.... :rolleyes:




Well, I've been gone all day.  We went to San Antonio for the day, but didn't get to see the alamo.

I'm a "so-called Christian".

I believe in the rapture, but I don't know at which part of tribulations it will occur.  I have read parts of the bible that can be interpreted as to when, and I prefer to believe that the rapture will occur before tribulation. 

I agree that there are a lot of Christians that are luke-warm.  They profess to believe in Jesus Christ, but they continue to live a life a sin, barely even trying to do the right thing, because they believe just believing will get them into heaven. 

While "just believing" is enough to get us into heaven, as long as our hearts are in the right place in that belief, it's not enough to avoid tribulations and leave this earth during rapture.  Those who are luke-warm Christians will have to stay for tribulations, to prove that they really do accept Jesus as their savior. 

I'm not talking about the Christian who occasionally sin, who strive and strive and then stumble.  I'm talking about the CHristian like the lawyer from whom I rented an office, who went to church on Sundays, who believed in God, but who steals and lies and cheats on a consistent basis, as a part of life.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: ARE YOU WAITING FOR IT? [Re: Frog]
    #2425426 - 03/12/04 10:51 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Frog...if GOd made us and everything around us, if God is a higher being...if God is a part of us...then why judgement day? why would a higher being pass judgement upon us? what would be the use of it? how could a higher being judge us so, when we can't even judge ourselves effectively. this bothers me a lot.

it;s like, hey I give you (or the illusion of) free will. you don't know what's going on, but here's a book. follow it, or you will be condemed! To me that's plain mean


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineFrog
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Re: ARE YOU WAITING FOR IT? [Re: kaiowas]
    #2425464 - 03/12/04 11:11 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

kaiowas, I'm just talking about what I know, and have chosen to believe, based on years of church, bible studies, reading books, talking to people, etc. I'm not here to talk anyone into believing anything.

But my mind is open, and I'm willing to read evidence someone may have that is contrary to what I believe.

Most recently, I have learned that the bible was not written while Jesus was alive, but many generations after his death. That somewhat discredits things written therein, imo.

So I am willing to have my mind changed, but I'm not here to change anyone else's mind with my beliefs.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleKthxBye
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Re: ARE YOU WAITING FOR IT? [Re: Frog]
    #2425482 - 03/12/04 11:24 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not a christian and I'm exceted by the prospect of the world coming to an end... ah well

How does Revelations fit into this whole rapture idea? Isn't it only the the tribes of Israel that make it out of here?


--------------------
I know what he wants: a drag of smooth tobbacco blended with the finest Turkish Turkweed. Here, have a toke on me you dumb beast.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: ARE YOU WAITING FOR IT? [Re: KthxBye]
    #2425493 - 03/12/04 11:30 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think the world is coming to an end. I think that there will be major changes. The world will still be here, but it will be different.

It isn't just the tribes of Israel that make it out, although I remember that there is something special about those tribes and 144,000 that make it out of something.

But supposedly, according to the bible, people who believe that Jesus died for their sins will be "raptured up" to heaven when the drastic changes occur in this world. Disease, famine, war, etc.

I personally think that there's a good chance that 2012 coincides with the discussion on tribulations in Revelations.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: ARE YOU WAITING FOR IT? [Re: Frog]
    #2425531 - 03/12/04 11:44 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

As do I


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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Anonymous

Post deleted by Anno [Re: Frog]
    #2434023 - 03/15/04 09:28 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)



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