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OfflineScarfmeister
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Hardcore christians i need a reply
    #1511960 - 05/01/03 06:29 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

To all hardcore christians here on the shroomery.
I understand that you guys take the bible very seriously and that you believe most of what it has to say. But if you look deep deep inside your self do you honestly believe that adam and eve was the first humans? Really? Dont you ever stop for just a second and think to your self "hmm maybe that adam and eve thingy is a bit illogical" "And maybe god didn't create all those fossils"

I understand that in order to be a true and good christian its important to really believe in the basics but can you honestly not tell me that some of the things in the bible is a bit odd and far fetched.

C'mon now, god, satan, angels, paradise, fucking Noah? Not even a littel bit strange?




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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Hardcore christians i need a reply [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1511979 - 05/01/03 06:35 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I think there's like a total of 2 hardcore christians on this BB.. and like..one of them comes in this forum.


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OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
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Re: Hardcore christians i need a reply [Re: Shroomism]
    #1512010 - 05/01/03 06:44 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Your term 'Hardcore Christian' for those who believe in Adam and Eve is a little narrow-sighted. Not all Christian sects believe that the history in the Bible, especially the Genesis story, is necessarily a literal transcription of the events involved in creation. Anyone from one of these sects could have a 'hardcore' perspective of their particular beliefs and still agree with you about the absurdity of the traditional creation story.

Further, some may contend with your notion that "in order to be a true and good christian its important to really believe in the basics", or at least what the so-called basics are.

jssmthrfcknchrst


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OfflineYou_are_God
^So are We^
Registered: 04/29/03
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Re: Hardcore christians i need a reply [Re: Shroomism]
    #1512030 - 05/01/03 06:50 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

LOL and just a little advice...if you ever try to refute their religion like that expect no more than blank stares, slaps in the face, or long bouts of cursing...ignorance begits ignorance. If you really want to try to convert christian zealots learn your side, well, and actually treat them like the humans that they are. If you can even make a conversation last more than five minutes you are doing well... just back them into a corner with the obvious...don't slander them or they simply will not listen good intentions aside.
Peace


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OfflineAmnesiac
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Re: Hardcore christians i need a reply [Re: Shroomism]
    #1512097 - 05/01/03 07:13 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

The whole story of Adam and Eve is just that... a story... A story that a lot of people misinterperet and take much too literally.

The bible is a book, written by very intelligent and advanced HUMANS just like many authors/artists do today. Take a widely known recent book like the Celestine Prophecy for example. A very good book with great insights, conveyed through a story to keep people entertained and amused while they read.

The intent of many authors who produce great literature is to spread positive messages and provide instruction, inspiration and motivation to simply seek a better path or pursue higher truth. This is true for authors long before the time the bible was written. In fact the bible itself was most likely inspired partially by other works of fiction, such as that of Homer.

The bible is a great book full of figurative meaning, and some parts based on actual events. The problem occurs when it is all TOO convincing, or is given to somebody who is not yet ready to read it.


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Here we are, in these bodies, on this planet in an endless universe. This is not the extent of who we are... merely an extension of who we really are.


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Hardcore christians i need a reply [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1512312 - 05/01/03 08:13 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Deleted by admin


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OfflineSombie
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Registered: 12/07/02
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Re: Hardcore christians i need a reply [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1512921 - 05/01/03 10:34 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

For one, you take the bible to litterally, Adam and Eve more represent people, the first society. A small group of people that lived in paridse, Cain and Able represent that it kept getting worse and worse as it went on, until they could no longer live with God.

atleast this is how I understand it, or interpt it. I am a christian, but I do not have the normal beleifs of the catholic church, My Idea of God isnt some guy with a beard or even a spirt, my idea of God is hard to explain, but is simply put "is nothing, but everything." he (or she? it dosent really have a gender) lives outside of the universe, not in another demention, because God created thoes to (if they exsist), but outside dementions completely on its own, its simular to the Buddhist idea of God.

oh and Revalations says that every word of the bible is true, it is but it isnt to be taken completely literally. Like when it says "Chariots of fire will rain from the sky" it dosent mean a chariot will come from the sky, obviously, but it COULD mean a spaceship will explode in the atsmosphere... or a nukular missile. (nukes explode before impact, to get a larger area of distruction)

sorry about spelling and grammar, I am going to bed.


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"America... just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable." - Hunter S Thompson

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Edited by Sombie (05/01/03 10:42 PM)


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Hardcore christians i need a reply [Re: Sombie]
    #1512941 - 05/01/03 10:39 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Deleted by admin


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Invisiblebert
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Re: Hardcore christians i need a reply [Re: World Spirit]
    #1512963 - 05/01/03 10:44 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

When I'm on shrooms I get an overwhelming feeling of being a young child again.
I sort of viewed this as an 'Adam and Eve' state of consciousness? It's hard to explain but it's the closest I've been to anything spiritual.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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OfflineSole_Worthy
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Registered: 04/20/03
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Re: Hardcore christians i need a reply [Re: bert]
    #1513649 - 05/02/03 02:10 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

thats intresting to think of adam and eve as our childlike innocent state. Whats would eating the forbiden fruit reperesent?


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get it all together get like birds of a feather


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Hardcore christians i need a reply [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1514060 - 05/02/03 07:50 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Christians and Jews with any adult understanding of 'midrash' - the story-telling methodology of ancient Hebrews used to impart spiritual truth - understands that there are four levels of interpretation to Scriptural writing: 1) literal-historical 2) allegorical 3) symbolic and 4) mystical.

Only the least sophisticated most concrete-minded individual reads Scriptures with ONLY a literal interpretation. This is why the heresy (wrong-view) commonly known as Fundamentalism, has turned the stomachs of most intelligent individuals. This also includes Jewish and Muslim Fundamentalists who would have the world return to stoning one's wife to death for adultery.

The Genesis account - deriving material from earlier creation myths - is written in the language of mythos, not science. The cosmology is pregnant with symbolism so complex, that one really needs to know quite a bit about ancient Hebrew down to the nuances of grammar, as well as about numerological significance of each Hebrew letter, and the theology of the various Holy Names of God. The word for God in Genesis, for example, is 'Elohim,' which indicates a plurality. Christians have leaned on this as a justification for the 2nd century doctrine of the Trinity, a name coined by Church Father Tertullian, and a doctrine unknown to Jews, to Jesus, to the authors of the New Testament. One could, and people have written books about just one word such as this, so to simply read the story line, one gets nothing from Genesis.

Edward Edinger, late former director of the C. G. Jung Institute of New York, wrote a book called 'Ego and Archetype: Individuation and the Religious Function of the Psyche.' It is the most profound modern understanding of Biblical mythos, and Genesis in particular. The book utilizes Jungian constructs to show how well the symbolic images of the Genesis account describes the birth of Consciousness from the Unconscious, and its separation and individuation. In other words, it illustrates the birth of consciousness in each individual as well as as a human race. It is a symbolic account for each of us born of The Great Mother - a feminine attribute of the 'plural' Godhead.
The ancients thinking of such mysteries was done mythologically. Moderns, with added scientific precision, think psychologically. The best I can do is to direct the reader to this book, as it speaks extremely well for itself. I have used it to teach human development, from a Jungian perspective, in graduate school


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Re: Hardcore christians i need a reply [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1514203 - 05/02/03 09:50 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i think ... maybe it sounds illogical.. but God knew what he was doing and maybe the people who wrote it made it sound illogical ??... and he said that in the end we will meet him face to face and he will tell us everything.. so im waiting for that sweet day .. :smile: :smile: 


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Hardcore christians i need a reply [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1514215 - 05/02/03 09:58 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

hey, what about jews & muslims, eh?


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Hardcore christians i need a reply [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1514267 - 05/02/03 10:22 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

my library had a copy of this interesting book:
www.bkstore.com/yale/fac/bloom2.html
check it out...


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Offlinequemo
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Re: Hardcore christians i need a reply [Re: gnrm23]
    #1514399 - 05/02/03 11:40 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

"oh and Revalations says that every word of the bible is true, it is but it isnt to be taken completely literally."

could it be that 2000 years ago, when these manuscripts were written, they were very plausible for ppl then with such little knowledge in physics and understanding of the world they lived in. That they were just the perfect answer for ppl then to explain the 'why' and 'how' they were here on earth. And that now, 2000 years later, an evolved educated religious man would say it is meant for 'interpretation, not to be taken literally' ?? An understandable human, but certainly not divine way of adapting the bible to modern times....


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Offlinequemo
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Re: Hardcore christians i need a reply [Re: quemo]
    #1514401 - 05/02/03 11:41 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

:laugh: my hundreth post :laugh:


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Offlinethestringphish
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Re: Hardcore christians i need a reply [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1516604 - 05/03/03 02:56 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

C'mon now, god, satan, angels, paradise, fucking Noah? Not even a littel bit strange?





If you consider the possibility that these stories may have came from the influence of halucinogenic mushrooms it dose not seem so strange anymore. :wink: 


--------------------
Ken Wilbur

"this is life changing"

welcomehome


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OfflineSombie
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Registered: 12/07/02
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Re: Hardcore christians i need a reply [Re: quemo]
    #1517330 - 05/03/03 12:10 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

You misunderstand me.

because of what it says in revolations the bible is either completely true or completely false, there is no middle ground.

(I mean the historic content would still be true, but Jesus being the son of god, and all of that would have to be false.)

Oh and another thing about Adam and Eve, since they were the first two people on earth (assuming you take the bible litterally) perhaps their genetic code was so diffrent (because, since they were just "created" they have absolutely no relation) that their children were able to have offspring without the problems we have today.

OR maybe they were greater in some fasion, and compared to Adam and Eve we ARE deforrmed insense freaks.


--------------------
"America... just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable." - Hunter S Thompson

Check out Agio

Follow my NFL Blog


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