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The Gary Johnson Thread
    #23479641 -

I figured we should have a Gary Johnson thread, since he is the only 3rd party candidate with ballot access in 50 states, and I believe he has just recently polled at 12%, which means he is nearing debate eligibility.

Gary Johnson has chosen Gov. William Weld as his VP. This could get very interesting. I think lots of Bernie supporters may be willing to support Johnson, and I also think lots of disgruntled Republicans would be happy to support him.

Here is a little clip from Rachel Maddow on the topic. Look, he's even getting MSM coverage! lmao






Gary Johnson is by no means my ideal candidate. I like him more than Clinton and Trump though. So there's that.

Libertarianism, as a philosophy in modern politics, is generally a compromise between left and right wing politics. This means that the Libertarian party could potentially split the vote on both ends of the spectrum, and we could still have a very competitive race.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: The Gary Johnson Thread [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23479659 -

I'd like to see him get some electoral votes, enough to keep hillary and trump from the magical 270, that would be interesting to see the outcome


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http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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Re: The Gary Johnson Thread [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #23479707 -

Holy shit

is this a political topic that was actually placed in the political discussion part of this forum instead of the pub?  :incredible:


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How to get started in bulk:
Presto 23-Quart Pressure Cooker
BOD's Simple as FUCK Still Air Box
PastyWhyte's Easy Agar Tek
Munchauzen's Cultivation Video Series
How EvilMushroom666 Prepares His Grains (I use jars with Synthetic Filter Discs)
What is G2G? (Grain-to-Grain)
Damion5050's Coir Tek (I use 5.5 - 6 quarts of water instead of 4. Also ignore step 13 and ignore the monotub completely. The only purpose of this tek is to show you how to make a simple substrate. I also add gypsum to it but not necessary)
Spitball's Monotub Tek (A liner isn't necessary but is useful)
Use 6500k lights throughout the whole process. When you wake up, turn the light on. When you go to sleep turn the light off. It's as simple as that.

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Re: The Gary Johnson Thread [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #23479712 -

I'd vote for Jill Stein.

Though I agree with libertarians when it comes to Government staying out of our personal business, I can't agree with them about Government staying out of corporate business.

A libertarian president would allow corporations to take advantage of workers and widen the income gap to enormous levels; something that would be disastrous for the country.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Gary Johnson Thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23479754 -

As opposed to now? What's the government doing now to stop corporations? If anything, they are  helping them now more than they ever have... Stifling competition, bailouts, crony capitolism at its finest

What you need to remember is when you cut the ties that bind corps from govt.; you also cut the incentives that govt and corps have to work together, which would be BETTER for the workers, not worse


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http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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Re: The Gary Johnson Thread [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23479792 -

hostileuniverse said:
What you need to remember is when you cut the ties that bind corps from govt.; you also cut the incentives that govt and corps have to work together, which would be BETTER for the workers, not worse


Elimination of all the labor laws this country has worked so hard for would be a disaster for workers.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Gary Johnson Thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23479804 -

That's not what he's suggesting, that's a scare tactic, you think he's gonna repeal child labor laws?:lol:

What he's talking about is ending the collusion,  not letting them pollute and endanger employees however they want, that's a ridiculous assumption

What exactly do you think he'd do?


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http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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Re: The Gary Johnson Thread [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #23480199 -

I'm all for that.  So is Bernie, and so is Jill Stein.  But Jill Stein wouldn't eliminate ANY labor laws, and would fight for a higher minimum wage.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Gary Johnson Thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23480215 -

So he wouldn't impose more govt controls on business, that's what you oppose?

Govt regulation and controls is what has driven our manufacturing out of the country, when the govt stopped letting business compete, they left, and will continue to do so.


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http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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Re: The Gary Johnson Thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23480229 -

Does Gary Johnson advocate the abolition of labor laws?

Look, I have HU on ignore, and I really don't want him to derail this thread into some garbage nonsensical discussion.

Anyways, what we have to remember is that there are checks and balances on the president. They can't just do whatever they would like to do. Regardless, I think if people get a taste of the right wing punishment of no labor laws, and no progressive taxation, they will reject it wholly in a very short time. We only have to go a tiny smidge more to the right, for people to realize what true lefties they really are :wink:

I will probably cast my vote for Stein also, but I do like the idea of a third party that is capable of challenging the two party system, and right now the Libertarians are the only ones capable of doing that. He already almost has high enough numbers to be in the debates.

Now, I have to ask, do you really prefer Hillary Clinton, or Donald Trump, to a guy like Gary Johnson? He has done good things for his state, and he is generally fairly reasonable compared to our other two options. I am willing to make concessions at this point. Clinton and Trump would be abysmal presidencies. Moreover, I just don't like the idea of Clinton becoming president after she has clearly been cheating the entire time. I believe in our Republic, and I believe I should have the right to vote for representation.

Either way, Johnson believes we should be less interventionist globally, and we can save lives by having an anti-war president. That's something good, is it not? I hate seeing so many people die in the name of horse shit political rhetoric.

Edit:

I might add that Johnson is also very liberal on Social issues, such as abortion, gay rights, the war on drugs, militarization of police, and foreign policy. I'd rather have a guy like that appointing a Supreme Court Justice than Clinton or Trump. One way or another, we will get a right wing SCOTUS appointee. I'd prefer the Johnson appointee.

Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/26/16 11:35 PM)

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Re: The Gary Johnson Thread [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #23480372 -

I just read that Johnson wants to eliminate income taxes on businesses.  I don't see that as making a lot of sense in practical terms.  I would have a lot more sympathy for the Libertarian ethos if they weren't so conservative on so many key issues.  It is also unrealistic to think government can be shrunk to the level they would like to see.  In the modern world, government has a minimum size it can be, and at this point, it's rather sizable.  Libertarians just strike me as a little off-base and unrealistic when it comes to some of their policies.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: The Gary Johnson Thread [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23480419 -

Quote:
I have HU on ignore,


I don't know is Gary jonnyson wants to repeal labor laws,
DividedQuantum said:
I just read that Johnson wants to eliminate income taxes on businesses.  I don't see that as making a lot of sense in practical terms.  I would have a lot more sympathy for the Libertarian ethos if they weren't so conservative on so many key issues.  It is also unrealistic to think government can be shrunk to the level they would like to see.  In the modern world, government has a minimum size it can be, and at this point, it's rather sizable.  Libertarians just strike me as a little off-base and unrealistic when it comes to some of their policies.


The idea that the federal govt needs to be in every fucking aspect of our lives is ridiculous, they don't need to control our local school boards, zoning laws or local police or fire. The assumption they should, or even can control these issues with efficiency is nonsense


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http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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Re: The Gary Johnson Thread [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #23480477 -

DividedQuantum said:
I just read that Johnson wants to eliminate income taxes on businesses.  I don't see that as making a lot of sense in practical terms.


Yes, he wants to create a flat tax, which we are all very well aware is ridiculous.

Quote:
  I would have a lot more sympathy for the Libertarian ethos if they weren't so conservative on so many key issues.  It is also unrealistic to think government can be shrunk to the level they would like to see.  In the modern world, government has a minimum size it can be, and at this point, it's rather sizable.


Agreed.

 
Quote:
Libertarians just strike me as a little off-base and unrealistic when it comes to some of their policies.


Yes, they are very unrealistic on all of their right-wing positions.

Look, I am not advocating Gary Johnson, but I figured we ought to discuss him, his policy positions, and his potential impact on this election. This country is marching toward Fascism, and Clinton would certainly continue that march. Donald Trump would be an ideal figurehead of Fascism. How anyone can see it differently is beyond me. Maybe Johnson would do a bit less damage.

The main job of a president is to handle foreign affairs. War in particular. I like Johnson's position on war. He wants to reduce the military budget, bring the troops home, and stop global interventionism.

We currently have over 800 foreign military bases scattered across the globe. To put that into perspective, I believe all other countries combined have roughly 30.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/27/16 12:12 AM)

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Re: The Gary Johnson Thread [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23480629 -

Trump has advocated pulling back from foreign affairs as well, also making other countries pay for their security, rather than us flipping the bill, good thing you're not bothered with responding to facts, ignorance is bliss I guess


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http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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Re: The Gary Johnson Thread [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23480981 -

Bigbadwooof said:
Does Gary Johnson advocate the abolition of labor laws?


I don't know.  Libertarians generally don't like Government regulations.

Bigbadwooof said:
I will probably cast my vote for Stein also, but I do like the idea of a third party that is capable of challenging the two party system, and right now the Libertarians are the only ones capable of doing that. He already almost has high enough numbers to be in the debates.


Neither Stein nor Johnson can realistically beat Clinton or Trump.  I'd much rather help the Green Party than the Libertarian Party.

Bigbadwooof said:
Now, I have to ask, do you really prefer Hillary Clinton, or Donald Trump, to a guy like Gary Johnson? He has done good things for his state, and he is generally fairly reasonable compared to our other two options. I am willing to make concessions at this point. Clinton and Trump would be abysmal presidencies. Moreover, I just don't like the idea of Clinton becoming president after she has clearly been cheating the entire time. I believe in our Republic, and I believe I should have the right to vote for representation.

Either way, Johnson believes we should be less interventionist globally, and we can save lives by having an anti-war president. That's something good, is it not? I hate seeing so many people die in the name of horse shit political rhetoric.

Edit:

I might add that Johnson is also very liberal on Social issues, such as abortion, gay rights, the war on drugs, militarization of police, and foreign policy. I'd rather have a guy like that appointing a Supreme Court Justice than Clinton or Trump. One way or another, we will get a right wing SCOTUS appointee. I'd prefer the Johnson appointee.


All of the good things you mention about Johnson are also true of Stein, but without the bad things.

Given a choice between Clinton, Trump, and Johnson, I really don't know who I'd take.  If Clinton distances herself from big corporations, Wall Street and the super-wealthy, I'd go with her.  But if she doesn't, I just don't know.

I do like Stein a LOT better than all three, so my vote right now is with her.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Gary Johnson Thread [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23480988 -

hostileuniverse said:
Trump has advocated pulling back from foreign affairs as well, also making other countries pay for their security, rather than us flipping the bill, good thing you're not bothered with responding to facts, ignorance is bliss I guess


Wooof hasn't denied that about Trump.  He simply dislikes other things about Trump.

Stein also wants to spend less on the military.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Gary Johnson Thread [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23481249 -

Gary Johnson is not going to win one electoral vote, or maybe his home state.
    I have no idea if the people on here are so young, or so idealistic that they have no idea how politics actually works in the U.S.
    If you think a third party is going to push the election into the House of Representatives, you should talk about this with your friends the next time you're all doing acid.
    Ideals are great. I threw my vote away several times in my irrationally extended college career. I voted Libertarian and I voted Green (and I'm not even going to admit which Party I voted for the other time).
    But you get older you realize (and I apologise for how condescending this term sounds) "How the world really works".
    Organization wins, not ideals.
In our "winner takes all system" a 3rd party is not going to be an issue, except occasionally as a spoiler.
    I wish we had a parliamentary system like Western Europe or Israel where every party gets it's percentage of votes. and then the leading party creates coalitions with a couple other parties to get a majority and then they share power based on how many votes they contributed.
    I can't see it ever happening here, but I don't think the presidency will ever go to anybody except the organizational choice of the 2 parties.
    The only way I could see that I'm wrong, is if the shit really really really hits the fan. But even then is the congress going to support a 3rd party President.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: The Gary Johnson Thread [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #23482165 -

I am on a phone, so I can't type very well, but I wanted to answer your post, Brian.

I completely understand where you are coming from, and I am certainly a young idealist, at the end of the day. However, I think we are witnessing the first stages of both parties imploding. Do you think Donald Trump won due to his exceptional 'organization'? Brexit is an example of a vote of no confidence in the government in the UK. Trump is exemplary of the same here in the US. The climate has probably not been so friendly to a 3rd party presidential bid since the Republican party was established. The real problem with third parties though, is that they generally only go after the presidency, and not mayor/governor/Senate seats, though there have been a few.

Anyways, if Johnson gets in the debates, I really do think he has a shot. It is a wacky year. He has polled at 12 and 13% of the vote. That is impressive, and it really says something about where the two parties are right now.

I wish that we had a parliamentary system also. Anything we can do to diffuse power is in the best interest of the people. That, in my mind, also goes for corporate business structures.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/27/16 04:26 PM)

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Re: The Gary Johnson Thread [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #23484795 -

Bigbadwooof said:
I am on a phone, so I can't type very well, but I wanted to answer your post, Brian.

I completely understand where you are coming from, and I am certainly a young idealist, at the end of the day. However, I think we are witnessing the first stages of both parties imploding. Do you think Donald Trump won due to his exceptional 'organization'? Brexit is an example of a vote of no confidence in the government in the UK. Trump is exemplary of the same here in the US. The climate has probably not been so friendly to a 3rd party presidential bid since the Republican party was established. The real problem with third parties though, is that they generally only go after the presidency, and not mayor/governor/Senate seats, though there have been a few.

Anyways, if Johnson gets in the debates, I really do think he has a shot. It is a wacky year. He has polled at 12 and 13% of the vote. That is impressive, and it really says something about where the two parties are right now.

I wish that we had a parliamentary system also. Anything we can do to diffuse power is in the best interest of the people. That, in my mind, also goes for corporate business structures.


BB Woof I liked you reply and we agree on a lot, buy if Gary gets the 5% to get into debates its not going to make any difference this year, maybe in he  future but I I'm'pretty sure Hillary wins she's got 8 years and that's no going be as big of a Repuublican majority or an intertest in just obstructing for 8 more years. Obamas' approval is around 53% and congress is at 8 or 9. Since they have the majority they are going to take blame.  I don't think Hillary needs a majority in the senate to get Supreme court justices approved because the GOP knows there's only so many year they will be tolerated as pure obstructionists.

    On Gary Johnson getting into the debate it will help his future career, but I don't see any electoral votes.

      I don't what it would take for us to adopt a parliamentary system. Probably never. We can't even get away from the electoral college, and that has been of date for a couple centuries.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: The Gary Johnson Thread [Re: Brian Jones]
    #23484855 -

To move to a parliamentary system would require a constitutional convention, 2/3 of the states would need to call for it, then we could rewrite the constitution as we see fit. It would also be liberals best chance to get rid of them first and second amendments they loath so much.


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http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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