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Anonymous

roll call... do libertarians support child labor?
    #3022246 - 08/19/04 07:43 AM (13 years, 7 days ago)

might you be considered a libertarian? do you support child labor?

i don't.


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OfflineAncalagon Happy Birthday
AgnosticLibertarian

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Re: roll call... do libertarians support child labor? [Re: ]
    #3022260 - 08/19/04 07:53 AM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

might you be considered a libertarian? do you support child labor?



Yes, absolutely not.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Invisiblerogue_pixie
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Re: roll call... do libertarians support child labor? [Re: ]
    #3022353 - 08/19/04 08:53 AM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Only evil sickos support child labour.


--------------------
"Whatever you do, you need to keep moving.  Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally).

Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP



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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: roll call... do libertarians support child labor? [Re: ]
    #3022429 - 08/19/04 09:53 AM (13 years, 7 days ago)

The virgin mary was just a young teenager when she had me. Different cultures have different definitions of children and what their duties should be. I used to work as a kid, and I thought it was good for me. Kids on farms still work.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: roll call... do libertarians support child labor? [Re: ]
    #3022656 - 08/19/04 11:40 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

So what punishment would you dispense to american corporations who use it throughout the third world?

And it looks like your viewpoint is at odds with at least one famous libertarian:

Stephen Chapman from Libertarian newspaper argues that "But why is it unconscionable for a poor country to allow child labor? Pakistan has a per-capita income of $1,900 per year - meaning that the typical person subsists on barely $5 per day. Is it a a revelation - or a crime - that some parents willingly send their children off to work in a factory to survive? Is it cruel for Nike to give them the chance?"

Stephen argues that the best way to end child-labor is to buy more of the products that children produce. This would increase their demand, and as they will produce more, they will earn more, hence giving themselves chane to rise above poverty level and thus also benefiting the families of the children and as well as the nation.

However, the issue is not that simple. Increasing the demand of the products produced by child labor means encouraging more child labor, encouraging more birth rates, more slavery, increasing sweatshops and discouraging education - as parents of the children working in factories would want them to work more and earn more. If this happened to be the case, then more and more children will be bought and sold on the black market, leading no end to this problem. By encouraging more child labor, you are not only taking away those innocent years from them but also the right to be educated and the right to be free.


http://www.american.edu/TED/nike.htm


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OfflineAncalagon Happy Birthday
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Re: roll call... do libertarians support child labor? [Re: Xlea321]
    #3022695 - 08/19/04 11:58 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

And it looks like your viewpoint is at odds with at least one famous libertarian:



Who the fuck is Steven Chapman?


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: roll call... do libertarians support child labor? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3022700 - 08/19/04 11:59 AM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Depends how you define "child." I have no problem with people as young as 15 working, but not much younger than that.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: roll call... do libertarians support child labor? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3022705 - 08/19/04 12:01 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Who the fuck is Steven Chapman?

A famous libertarian.


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: roll call... do libertarians support child labor? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3022711 - 08/19/04 12:02 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

i know where you'd want 15yr old boys working


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: roll call... do libertarians support child labor? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3022720 - 08/19/04 12:05 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Yes, absolutely not




And what punishment would you dispense to american corporations currently using child labour?


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: roll call... do libertarians support child labor? [Re: ]
    #3022734 - 08/19/04 12:08 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

yes they do...NO GOVT INVOLVEMENT IN BUSINESS ...they support no minimum wage, child labor, unsafe working conditions etc....


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Anonymous

Re: roll call... do libertarians support child labor? [Re: Xlea321]
    #3022735 - 08/19/04 12:08 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

And what punishment would you dispense to american corporations currently using child labour?

most likely a hefty fine. pretty simple.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: roll call... do libertarians support child labor? [Re: ]
    #3022747 - 08/19/04 12:11 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

And if that didn't stop them? It's going to have to be a pretty hefty fine to affect the kind of profits you can make exploiting non-unionised child labour isn't it.

Would you keep fining them until they banned every last child and introduced union rights, workers rights and safe working conditions throughout every factory they use?


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Anonymous

Re: roll call... do libertarians support child labor? [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #3022755 - 08/19/04 12:14 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

yes they do...NO GOVT INVOLVEMENT IN BUSINESS ...

wrong KOTT. you misunderstand. libertarians support no government interference in free exchange. the government can and should prevent extortion, fraud, theft, murder, patent and copyright violations, violent intimidation of unionizers, child labor, excessive pollution, etc. etc. etc.

a robbery could be called a type of business transaction. a hitman is, without a doubt, a businessman. no libertarian would call for no government interference with robbers and hitmen. when force is initiated, the government steps in. when it's not, it doesn't. it's really not that difficult to understand.


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Anonymous

Re: roll call... do libertarians support child labor? [Re: Xlea321]
    #3022763 - 08/19/04 12:15 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)


And if that didn't stop them? It's going to have to be a pretty hefty fine to affect the kind of profits you can make exploiting non-unionised child labour isn't it.


yeah, it might have to be a pretty big fine... big enough at least to offset the profits available by using child labor. you see a problem with that?

Would you keep fining them until they banned every last child and introduced union rights, workers rights and safe working conditions throughout every factory they use?

now you're getting it.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: roll call... do libertarians support child labor? [Re: ]
    #3022764 - 08/19/04 12:15 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
it's really not that difficult to understand.



Sadly, it is for many people.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: roll call... do libertarians support child labor? [Re: Xlea321]
    #3022765 - 08/19/04 12:16 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

I'm a LIBERAL and I am not against child labour. If child labour is illegal, children will work anyway in awful conditions for terrible wages. If child labour is legal, it can be regulated and the working conditions can be improved, minimum wages set and a minimum age can be realistically enforced.

I am against the exploitation of children, but child labour doesn't have to be that. Recently, a group of children attended a conference on child labour and expressed just these views. Many children want to work.

Doesn't it make more sense to legalise and regulate it than leave children to get taken advantage of illegally?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: roll call... do libertarians support child labor? [Re: ]
    #3022768 - 08/19/04 12:18 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

the government can and should prevent extortion, fraud, theft, murder, patent and copyright violations, violent intimidation of unionizers, child labor, excessive pollution, etc. etc. etc.

Even if this decreases corporate competitiveness?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: roll call... do libertarians support child labor? [Re: Xlea321]
    #3022770 - 08/19/04 12:19 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
the government can and should prevent extortion, fraud, theft, murder, patent and copyright violations, violent intimidation of unionizers, child labor, excessive pollution, etc. etc. etc.

Even if this decreases corporate competitiveness?



Of course. Even libertarians have our limits.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: roll call... do libertarians support child labor? [Re: Xlea321]
    #3022774 - 08/19/04 12:19 PM (13 years, 6 days ago)

Even if this decreases corporate competitiveness?

i assume you're speaking of international competitiveness, and the answer is yes.


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