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OfflineSeussA
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Re: ADHD and Meditation [Re: Frog]
    #2161453 - 12/05/03 12:37 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Have you thought about martial arts? This can become a form of meditation in movement. Martial arts is much more than simply learning how to fight or defend oneself. The mental disipline one learns is astounding.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineFrog
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Re: ADHD and Meditation [Re: Ped]
    #2161514 - 12/05/03 12:51 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Ped, first, thank you for those links. I am going to give meditation a try. I'll hit a book store. By the way, I used to belong to a forum with the person who started Born to Explore. Now THERE'S a group of anti-meds people for ya!

And, Ped, I agree with you that there are a lot of behaviors that look like ADHD. http://www.adhdparentssupportgroup.homestead.com/50conditionsmimicingADHD.html

I also agree that there are ways to treat the symptoms besides medicating our children. I put my 16-year old on medication when he was 8 years old, but he's been off it for a year now, and he's doing okay. I am holding off so far on meds for my 9-year old, because I have learned that children should not take meds when their brains are developing.

My son was part of a nation-wide study on ADHD. It was not done by the drug companies. The children were randomly assigned to four groups: psycho-social intervention only, medication only, psycho-social intervention and meds, and "nothing". The study lasted a long time. The results were that while psycho-social intervention helped tremendously, the children did much better with the addition of meds.

I'm not saying that kids should be put on meds. I'm just saying that they do better on meds. My brain is foggy when not on meds. It's so weird.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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OfflineFrog
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Re: ADHD and Meditation [Re: Seuss]
    #2161525 - 12/05/03 12:53 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, Zeuss. I forgot about martial arts. That's a form of meditation, right? Or, you use meditation? I forgot that I know a few people who believe that martial arts helps ADHD people develop discipline, or something like that.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: ADHD and Meditation [Re: Frog]
    #2161843 - 12/05/03 02:20 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Hmm...the thought of a Ninja with ADHD is pretty scary. :grin:


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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: ADHD and Meditation [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2162198 - 12/05/03 03:50 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

> I forgot about martial arts. That's a form of meditation, right?

I used to teach a martial arts class for people that had motor skill problems. It is a form of meditation, but it also works the body at the same time. The meditation isn't really taught... it is just something that is picked up with time. Mind, body, and spirit all work together becoming more healthy... at first you only notice the improvement of the body, but after a while the mind and spirit follow on their own.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineFrog
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Re: ADHD and Meditation [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2162214 - 12/05/03 03:57 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Skorpivo, that sounds so funny...a ninja with ADHD! And you'd have to know an ADHDer to know why it's so funny.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Offlineannielicious
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Re: ADHD and Meditation [Re: Frog]
    #2162935 - 12/05/03 09:47 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

As an adult, however, I use drugs to make my brain work better, not differently.




What do you mean by better? Does your mind slow down on drugs, or do things get clearer? If the drugs help you become more comfortable in your own head, why not try to duplicate their effects naturally, self induced.

I do not have ADD/ADHD, but wanted to encorporate some meditation or calming excercises into my life. I have not taken the time to have the patience with meditation, but very much enjoy yoga. That is an active mind calming activity. You are still doing something, but concentrating on one thing, training your mind if you will. Perhaps trying something actively meditating would be a nice segway for you. You would also be training your body at the same time... multitasking=happy ADDer.

On a side note, my aunt (a pharmacist) has a child with Asperger's (sp), and this diagnosis has some parallels with ADD/ADHD. She said that artificial food colorings have marked effects on behavior and mood for Asperger's folks. I have a nephew who is ADD, and she suggested for him to start avoiding Red #40 and Yellow #5.

Good luck


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"Everything that limits us, we have to put aside."  Jonathan Livingston Seagull

Edited by annielicious (12/05/03 09:53 PM)

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OfflineFrog
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Re: ADHD and Meditation [Re: annielicious]
    #2162982 - 12/05/03 10:04 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, I think I heard somewhere once about yoga. I am definitely going to start doing something. And someone posted links and I didn't even think about doing internet research about ADHD and meditation and stuff. But I'm glad I asked here, because I've received some great feedback.

About the drugs...My brain is just mushy on its own "free will". I don't take drugs unless I need to think. I wish I could explain, but "fog" sums it up pretty good. I actually love being ADHD. It's a very good thing.



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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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OfflineAmnesiac
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Re: ADHD and Meditation [Re: Frog]
    #2163027 - 12/05/03 10:21 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

ADHD can come in handy sometimes, and other times, it can be a burden. So the thing to do would be to develop in yourself a switch that can turn it on and off. Easier said than done, right? :smile:

But it's good that you've decided to try meditation. It will help, but since you have ADHD, it will be very difficult, and you'll be tempted to give up when you don't see immediate results.

A lot of people I know, some with ADD, some without, don't like the idea of meditating simply because it is boring, or because nothing happens... You can't expect anything to happen, because in any state of mind where you are expecting something, you are not meditating, and nothing WILL happen.

There is no question in my mind that meditation will help you.

ADD is not a disorder... most people are right-handed... then some are left-handed. The left handed people generally have certain advantages over right-handed people, and vice versa. Of course the best thing would be to learn to be ambidextrous. Like with ADD, you need to develop that switch, where you can be in ADD mode when you need to be, and non-ADD mode when you need to be. With enough discipline, including meditation (consider Tai Chi as well), you should be able to flip between these two modes with minimal effort.

I know this because I have ADD... and I also don't have ADD.

Normally I am in "ADD" mode (Just using the given terms by the way, I don't call it that), and when I want to do something like read a book, listen to music, do some writing or have a deep conversation, I flip my switch, and bring myself into the moment. I still haven't perfected it, but with meditation and other forms of self-discipline, I've greatly improved.

Good luck!


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Here we are, in these bodies, on this planet in an endless universe. This is not the extent of who we are... merely an extension of who we really are.

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OfflineZenGecko
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Re: ADHD and Meditation [Re: Amnesiac]
    #2163246 - 12/06/03 12:21 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I have ADD not ADHD, and from my personal experience meditation has been very helpful. I dont know if add/adhd is a disorder or if its just being different from the norm, but if it is a disorder its ironic that a higher percentage of add/adhd people are considered "gifted" then the percentage of normal people who are considered gifted. Anyways meditating has helped me learn to focus better, when i first began counting my breaths i lost track very easily but now i do it without thinking, in fact in any quiet moment its hard for me not to count every exhale up to 10 and repeat that over and over. Meditation is very simple, just count your breaths and relax, the only hard part is just doing it, but its not complicated, nothing elaborate need be involved. Start out just trying to do it for 15 minutes everynight before sleep, or after you first wake up, do it lying down if sitting is to uncomfortable. I do it lying down cause i'm naturally lazy, and while some of the established postures and teqniques do seem to have value, i can very quickly get myself into the right "mind set" now in just about any position, holding it is sometimes a problem, but not so much because of boredom or anything, but because i've reached a wall in my own mind that i cant get past. I'm to a point where within 20 minutes of meditating i either get or have repeatedly gotten to this point, but then i loose it, i feel my "self" slipping away and can't let go, and pretty much have to start all over, but when i first began meditating i had an experience that i can only describe as kensho, or satori, or an enlightenment experience, i'm not claiming to be enlightened mind you, but the experience was profound enough to literally alter my perception of reality, including every day objects, and time. Everything literally looks different and feels different, more real, and i'm more "here" then i can ever remember feeling. This experience has helped me to further deal with my ADD not to mention everything else. For those that are worried about getting bored while meditating, that might happend at first, or ocasionally but eventually it is almost an adventure... What will i experience tonight? how will i be different tomorrow? what will i learn about being? what will i learn about myself? its a voyage of discovery and the more you do it, the better you get, and the more intresting it gets. For me it has become maintinence, i have to do it now to kind of recharge, or something. If i go for awhile with out meditating or reaching a certain point in my meditation i start reverting back to the way i remember being, and i'd rather be the way i am now, i'd rather be more in the now. And in this current state, even the familar seems more novel and intresting. I'm a better person then i was, i was already pretty laid back, but now i'm even more uneffected by life and that which i cant control, i'm a nicer and less judgemental person, and since my little experience i've noticed that its very hard for me to get bored now, i used to get bored all the time in all kinds of situations, but now it happens much less frequently. There is a whole other world, and its right inside your own head, and its facinating to explore if can get yourself to do it.
Anyways back to add/adhd in general... i disagree with the statement that people should never be medicated, for me it helped a great deal until i developed a tolerance to it. I think any approach to add/adhd should be taken on a case by case basis, and when something is working stick with it, if its not then dont, and try something new. And if there is a chance that meditation might help then try it for awhile atleast, but dont give up on it or anything else too soon, give everything a fair chance. Once or twice wont likely be enough for meditation and only doing it everyonce in awhile will likely not be all that effective either, but any is better then none. Besides all the other stuff i talked about, my mind is just quieter then it was.
Sincerely,
That which is, and has no choice but to be

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OfflineFrog
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Re: ADHD and Meditation [Re: ZenGecko]
    #2163473 - 12/06/03 03:35 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I have to add something to this thread. This is kind of important. It takes a kind of different twist to what has been already discussed here.

Someone on another forum came up with a theory that there is no such thing as ADHD. He decided that the symptoms that comprise ADHD are symptoms that all people experience, but just to different extremes.

His name is Jose.

Anyways, he decided that ADHDers get their "gift" from about 40,000 years ago, when we were hunters and gatherers. Hunters are focused on one thing at a time. Gatherers notice just about everything.

As society took over and became eventually industrialized, there was no further use, really, for the hunter. The hunter is the ADHD person who is most likely to be diagnosed bipolar, asperger's, schizophrenic, autistic.

The world, as it is right now, is a world created by non-ADHD people, and by "gatherers".

I'm hoping I explain all this sufficiently.

Anyways, so forget "ADHD". We are "AH" (Hunters) or "VG" (Gatherers), depending on our symptoms.

A VG notices everything. A VG can be sitting there, doing homework, and notice every flipping thing going on around them. A VG will go to a bar to play pool and be content to sit at the table, watching everything going on around them, because they are distracted/entertained by everything going on around them.

An AH doesn't notice too much that's going on around them. They get bored easily, and so to stimulate their brains and make their environments less boring, they go around and provoke their environments into interaction with themselves. For instance, the person at a party who is loud and goes around and talks to everyone.

Here's another difference, that will eventually play into this discussion: AHs tend to project. They don't intuit. They emit energy and that energy acts in a psychic way to bring to the AH what the AH wants to achieve.

VGs tend to intuit. A VG picks up on vibes from other people, or can tell you what you wore last night, even if they didn't see you.

If an AH meditates, no problem, because the AH, even though they can get distracted by extraneous noises and movement, can focus more easily because they are intense in their focus on what they are trying to achieve.

If a VG meditates, they are going to probably be absorbing more energy from both positive and negative sources than is good for them.

If the above makes sense, and it should, you would see why a VG maybe shouldn't meditate.

I'm an AH. I could take up meditation, probably with no problem. My friend is a VG, and is very intuitive. Can a VG meditate without taking in too much that is being projected by others, even remotely? Hopefully someone can answer this question, if my explanation is adequate.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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OfflineFrog
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Re: ADHD and Meditation [Re: ZenGecko]
    #2163478 - 12/06/03 03:49 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Dude!! Holy cow dung!! Did you see that big long paragraph that you wrote??

Okay, me being me, I have to tell you this, and it's true for MOST ADHDers, and so it surprises me that you did that...

I can't read paragraphs that are that long. IsweartoGodIcant. I have belonged (and still belong) to a couple of ADHD forums where, if you posted a post that contained a paragraph that was that long, you would be dragged out back behind the forum and shot.

I would love to read what you wrote, but first, edit your paragraph. Just simply make a break every 2 to 3 sentences. You don't have to do this, but if you don't, sorry man, I can't read it.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: ADHD and Meditation [Re: Frog]
    #2163884 - 12/06/03 10:22 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
I would love to read what you wrote, but first, edit your paragraph.  Just simply make a break every 2 to 3 sentences.  You don't have to do this, but if you don't, sorry man, I can't read it.   




I tell him this as well. I will only read his work if it is somewhat of a small paragraph. Otherwise I skim words. :grin:

I used to have the same problem, but now I space 'em out quite nice. hehe
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisiblebuttonion
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Re: ADHD and Meditation [Re: Frog]
    #2163969 - 12/06/03 11:00 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

hi,

I was just recently diagnosed with adhd- innattentive type. I have been meditating off and on for several years now. From my experience, I have noticed an increased ability to focus since meditating, but I was never able to to get to the point I feel the average person is at normally, and have verified this through many conversations. It was only after I began taking medication that I could actually get something out of some classes I was taking, especially discussion-format ones. I feel meditation has helped me calm myself emotionally though, and for this reason I'm going to continue it.

And I haven't read all of the posts here, but ADHD is a legitimate disorder (to the extent that any mental disorder is legitimate). It is a sydrome, a collection of symptoms, and people do manifest with these symptoms. It is hereditary and is recognized as a neurological defecit (or "difference" if you want). Too much TV, bad parenting, and several other environmental factors have been ruled out. If you have a problem with the reification of the disease (it is a "thing" that exists), I agree- just think of it as a useful construct, not an inherently exisiting thing. That's all theory is anyway.


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Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein

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