Meditation question - Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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Birdseye
donald

Registered: 10/30/00
Posts: 204

Re: Meditation question

[Re: Xlea321]
#965307 - 10/16/02 04:34 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Traveller: I found one of those with a couple hours away. Thanks for the advice, I may give it a whirl.

"I wonder what the number of people who have a spiritual experience through meditation is compared to the number who try it? Is it practical for someone in the west working 12 hours a day to spend enough time meditating? If you have the psychedelic experience first and then want to try meditating to reach it then fine, but saying you can do it purely through meditation is a dead end for most people in my opinion."

Unfortunately I'd have to agree. Enlightenment via meditation takes practice and concentration. What helps a lot is not having a lot on your mind. This means not having a job, a family, responsibilities, etc. The more things you have to think about the harder it is. It's easiest for someone say 20 with no family and no job to do it on a retreat. It's hardest for someone 40 with kids and a job. But I wouldn't count yourself out! Everyone can do it, it's available to us all, just because it requires effort doesn't mean you shouldn't give it a shot!

"I have great doubts about taking the word of "guru's". Their living depends on people following their methods, buying their books etc. Like Terence Mckenna said he found almost all the indian gurus to be a confidence trick and that people were wasting their lives sweeping the ashram telling themselves that one day they'll find enlightenment. "

Oh, I definitely agree. Most gurus are shams. Any guru that accepts money I would be very wary of. Terence mckenna is right, but he probably was looking in Rishikesh (spelling is totally wrong). Rishikesh is where the beatles went and got their inspiration for the Sgt. peppers album and changed their lives. After that the state became highly known and tourism increased, especially for new agers seeking enlightenment--perfect for swindling swamis, which there are PLENTY of. I'd be wary of anyone who accepts the title "H.H" which means his holiness. The dali lama does, I don't know if he knows how to meditate properly, the H.H. distinction obviously isn't make it or break it, but these people are obviously missing the point if they accept "His holyness."
And actually if you read stories of the buddha's life from the tibetans (oldest source of Indian buddhism) the buddha is actually kind of a cocky guy in the stories, strangely enough. Whether that was mythed up or not, I don't know.

I have read some books and it's apparent that many a guru "know the words" but can't actually sing the tune. They'll make glaring errors that shows they have the words, but can't sing it... and it's especially hard for someone without any personal experience to tell!

"The story I read was that that Buddha was taking some form of soma?"

Well, he may or may have not taken soma at some point, we don't know. The tibetan versions are the oldest connected to indian buddhism (Padmasambava brought them over around 800AD). Indian buddhism was squashed by the muslims that destroyed the buddhists cities and most of the religion in india. But every version of the buddha's enlightenment story includes this meal. And this meal is a very important meal because it shows that fasting was not the answer. The buddha thought it would be for many years, he thought if he fasted that he'd get close to death and understand it. But when he went to the river he realized he was wrong and ate the meal. That's when all his followers left him and he went under the bodhi tree alone and achieved enlightenment.

" But pretty much every Buddhist, christian, Tao, Hindu etc master has undergone some form of mortification like fasting or meditating in a dark cave for 6 months. I think that's still the way most guru's become gurus.

There is not mention of fasting in "The Six Yogas of Naropa" a collection of some of the highest forms of yoga in tibetan buddhism. The specifically talk about meditation, techniques of meditation, lucid dreaming, and the combination of the two. But fasting you will not read; it may be in some texts as something to experience, but it is NOT at the core of the buddha's enlightenment.

Edited by Birdseye (10/16/02 04:52 AM)

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