Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   MagicBag.co Certified Organic All-In-One Grow Bags by Magic Bag   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |  [ show all ]
Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2093570 -

To Swami and Sclorch, How the hell ya been?
back on track...the "Pragmatic worldview" is highly effective at delineating most observable phenomena but by it's own cause and effect limitation is similar to comparing Newtonian physics with Quantum physics.At what level of reality does one lose the pragmatic? Is it the Quantum level? there are certainly many conundrums there,but what if there are "higher" levels than even the "Quantum"
What if consciousness is a deeper fundament of creation than even Quantum physics.At what point is the pragmatic lost as we delve deeper into the fundament of reality both scientificly and psychologicaly?
WR:rasta:


--------------------
To old for this place

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: guitarmon]
    #2093717 -

If I could "somehow" hold my breath long enough and "somehow" jump high enough I could touch the moon.

But ... if thru meditation and mental disipline, you were somehow able to focus and 'guide' your trip to exactly where you wanted to go ... could it be possible?

No. Because psilocybin merely replaces one neurotransmitter with a substitute. Tripping does not violate the laws of physics nor biology nor does it give one special powers.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: Swami]
    #2093938 -

Swami said:
If I could "somehow" hold my breath long enough and "somehow" jump high enough I could touch the moon.

But ... if thru meditation and mental disipline, you were somehow able to focus and 'guide' your trip to exactly where you wanted to go ... could it be possible?

No. Because psilocybin merely replaces one neurotransmitter with a substitute. Tripping does not violate the laws of physics nor biology nor does it give one special powers.



Science currently fails to explain all the mysteries of the multiverse.

What about telekinesis, psychokinesis, clairvoyance, etc. ? Do you claim to know everything about the mind, the universe ... what can and can't be done?

Open your mind ... use your imagination.

I'm not saying that psilocybin will give you super or magic powers ... but who knows ... it could help to unlock 'abilities' that we might already have, but are simply unaware of.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: guitarmon]
    #2093970 -

guitarmon said:
pattern said:
Here are some tests to see if psychedelic "travel" is real:

- Build an enclosed room with a note, and ask the traveller to read the note from far away.
- Have one traveller communicate a message to another traveller. 


That would be a logical test, sure. But ... you are making the assumption that when someone takes psychedelics ...  they will be able to 'control' where 'it' takes them.

Maybe some people have the mental disipline and 'control' to guide themselves to 'EXACTLY where they wish to go via psychedelics ... and 'mold' their trip into exactly what they wish. But not everyone.

In my experience (the only one I can speak for) ... I don't have that type of control. The 'shroom trip' takes me where IT wants to go ... and shows me what IT wants me to see.

Kind of like going to an airport blindfolded ... and hopping on a plane at random. You don't know where you will end up. Kind of hard to 'test the theory' if you don't where you're going to end up.


But ... if thru meditation and mental disipline, you were somehow able to focus and 'guide' your trip to exactly where you wanted to go ... could it be possible?

Why? or Why not?   


I'm only proposing some scenarios on how your theory could be verified.  If your theory is true then there is probably a way to prove it.

>Have one traveller communicate a message to another traveller.

I think this test would be easier to carry out.  For example two people take DMT at the same time, one of them has a keyword to give to the other person.  They meet in the "DMT-verse" and the other person comes back with the word. 

It would be interesting if such a test was successful and could be repeated.  Anyone wanna do DMT with me?  :grin:

As for how this would be scientifically possible, I dunno.  There are many crazy scientific theories about multiple dimensions, holographic realities, time travel, etc.  Personally I don't believe it would work, but I keep an open mind that the possibility exists, from my own unusual experiences tripping with other people. 


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: guitarmon]
    #2094422 -

Note: what the following have to do with interstellar travel, I cannot fathom. Why not bring in the chupacabra as well?

What about telekinesis,
Has never been demonstrated before impartial observers.

psychokinesis,
Has never been demonstrated before impartial observers.

clairvoyance,
Has never been demonstrated before impartial observers.

Do you claim to know everything about the mind, the universe ... what can and can't be done?
No, I only know that EVERY SINGLE person that I have encountered who makes any claims of paranormal powers either backs down when challenged or fails to produce any positive results.

When they fail, the response is ALWAYS the same:

A. I cannot perform in front of a skeptic.

B. Why should I "waste" my powers just to convince you?


... use your imagination.
What makes you think that I don't? My art, music and writing all flows from imagination.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: Swami]
    #2094608 -

I agree with a lot of the points guitarmon has made about the fact that this is a spirituality board and not a hard science board.

I respect skeptics but it gets really hard to respect them when they disrespect other people and become downright childish and petty in their refutations.

I don't mind skeptics if or religious fanatics as long as they adhere to one principle: express your opinion, then walk away!! Let it go!! Give the other person the freedom to believe whaty he wants without having to endure the ridicule of his peers. If you are afraid of some psycho misleading others, then make your refutations to his claims known, then walk the fuck away!!! Let the reader decide. Repeatedly picking apart people's posts like some internet nerd doesn't help convince anybody. People aren't supposed to attack the person, as opposed to the arguement, but they do anyway. Coming off like a prick skeptic does nothing to help the popularity of your ideas. The same is true of dogma pushers. Say what you gotta say, and walk away. If someone uses fallacies to make you look like an idiot or disprove your shit, then dont worry about it, because anyone of reasonable intelligence will be able to see that without you calling them on it.

I know I myself have been guilty of the pick apart post reponse, but mainly in defense of myself and others, and sometimes just for plain ol devil's advocacy, just to explore facets of a topic. There is a differencve between doing this constructively and doing it maliciously.

Spirituality, Philosophy, and Religion are all touchy issues and everyone should watch the tone of what they say, no matter how ridiculous the claim they are refuting is.

Skeptics should explain why they believe (or dont)what they belive instead of attacking others' beliefs. I have always seen this as a place of expression rather than a place of bland rhetorical debate

People with dogmatic beliefs and new theories should explain why they believe and what drove them to it without trying to convince and convert people.

I think if these two groups simply obeyed these rules, there would be a lot more peace and free expression in this forum.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: Swami]
    #2094656 -

Pattern - I hear ya ... its just about entertaining the possibility.  Whats DMT? :smile:


Swami - Its all good. Thanks for your insight and commentary, I respect your opinions.

I have different views, I guess just more curious and open towards other possibilies ... thats why I asked these questions. Interesting stuff, I love it.


You an artist? post links to some of your stuff if you like. I do my own music recordings, thats my thing.

Peace

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: guitarmon]
    #2094700 -

DoctorJ - No worries ... im not a crusader for intergallactic mushroom travels. I'm just posing the question for discussion ... viewpoints, and debate. 

My ego is not involved in this. I just have a wild imagination and curiosity ... but I confess I've have had some fun debating and entertaining the possibility. :wink: lol

I'd like to hear more viewpoints ... there is more than one angle to all this I think ... lol

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: guitarmon]
    #2094790 -

Guitarmon said..."ZenGekco - Wrong. For example, If you watched the Nova series 'The Elegant Universe' where they talked about 'string theory' ... there was some skepticism among some scientists. They thought that since there was no verifiable proof that 'strings' actually existed ... that the whole theory was more 'philosophy' than 'science'. Get it?"
I am aware of the debate surrounding string theory and the similar debate surrounding the holographic theory. I was not saying that science is the only thing that has anything to say about the nature of reality and/or being, or that spirituality and/or philosophy do. I'm saying that if you want any hope of getting as close to the truth as possible you need all 3. And actually philosophy has alot in common with science in that it is deeply rooted in logic, if not mathmatical logic then verbal logic, which actually is not all that different from math really. but the point is, Science has alot to say about reality, so does spirituality, so does philosophy. if you ignore one then the exploration of the others can't help but be incomplete. The debate surrounding string theory centers on the difficulty of testing it, but it was good experimental science that led to the theory in the first place. The theory itself may be considered more philosophy then science, but with out the science you wouldn't have gotten the philosophy of string theory. So science was useful in building the philosophy, now maybe the philosophy will be useful in decerning spiritual truth, and the spiritual truth may give us meaning. The real point is that all 3 have the same basic purpose, to find truth, if such a thing exists, they are just 3 different ways of going about it, but all have their merits and all have arguebly contributed greatly in our search for truth. They need each other. Philosophy helps pin down the question, and may suggest answers, science asks the questions and often provides the "how" of it, and often suggests other questions or answers, but often these are outside the bounds of science, and the "why" is left to spirituality, or even philosophy once again, possibly. There is a reason why most philosophers through the ages have been scientists and/or theologians.
Sincerely,
That which is, and has no choice but to be

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2094908 -

It is really important for a poster to carry forward some real or imagined slight from many months ago and to keep reliving it in thread after thread. This is the essence of spirituality.

I agree with a lot of the points guitarmon has made about the fact that this is a spirituality board and not a hard science board.
Interplanetary exploration has nothing to do with science?

I respect skeptics but it gets really hard to respect them....
Which is it? Is this some zen paradox?

I don't mind skeptics if or religious fanatics as long as they adhere to one principle: express your opinion, then walk away!! Let it go!!
Will DoktorJ live up to his own principle? (We already know the answer to that one.)

Give the other person the freedom...
Freedom as long as we follow your guiding principles.

to believe whaty he wants without having to endure the ridicule of his peers.
Guitarmon does NOT need a champion. He is perfectly capable of responding.

If you are afraid of some psycho misleading others, then make your refutations to his claims known, then walk the fuck away!!!
You already said that. I thought you were going to express your opinion then walk away. Wait, that is for others only.

Let the reader decide.
The reader ALWAYS decides.

People aren't supposed to attack the person, as opposed to the arguement, but they do anyway.
Soundz good, let's see how The Doktor does:

...like some internet nerd

Coming off like a prick skeptic

Very complimentary and NOT AT ALL personal.

Say what you gotta say, and walk away.
Third time is a charm I guess.

If someone uses fallacies to make you look like an idiot or disprove your shit, then dont worry about it, because anyone of reasonable intelligence will be able to see that without you calling them on it.
Therefore debate and discussion is totally unecessary because we are all people of reasonable intelligence? Perspective is just as important as intelligence.

I know I myself have been guilty of the pick apart post reponse,
Like this one where you do NOT challenge one single point that I made.

but mainly in defense of myself and others,
How noble! Ah, once again, The People's Champion.

There is a differencve between doing this constructively and doing it maliciously.
How do you call someone a prick (something that I have NEVER done on this board) constructively, oh great and wise master?

Spirituality, Philosophy, and Religion are all touchy issues
Only to tender, touchy, ego-based people with no real faith.

...and everyone should watch the tone of what they say, no matter how ridiculous the claim they are refuting is.
The more ridiculous the claim, the more it "should" be shredded.

Skeptics should explain why they believe (or dont)what they belive instead of attacking others' beliefs.
Should - yes, we all should all follow your sterling example and post according to your rules even though you tramp all over your own tenets.

I have always seen this as a place of expression rather than a place of bland rhetorical debate
There should be no debate on a debate board?

People with dogmatic beliefs and new theories should explain why they believe and what drove them to it without trying to convince and convert people.
Get the majority to agree to your guidelines, then I will follow them. Until then mi amigo...



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: Swami]
    #2095199 -

I still believe its all within the realm of possibility.

There are many angles to this discussion.  How about this angle then?

A scientist takes some shrooms, has a revelation ... which leads him to discover how to invent a device that will allow interdimensional travel.

Never underestimate the power of the mind on shrooms.

LOL :smile:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: guitarmon]
    #2095242 -

A scientist takes some shrooms, has a revelation ... which leads him to discover how to invent a device that will allow interdimensional travel.

Uh, well, that was pretty much (LSD instead of shrooms) how Kary Mullis realized the Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR).  However, he was working with DNA in reality NOT "Interdimensional Travel" in your fantasies. :wink: 


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: Sclorch]
    #2096300 -

Sclorch said:
A scientist takes some shrooms, has a revelation ... which leads him to discover how to invent a device that will allow interdimensional travel.

Uh, well, that was pretty much (LSD instead of shrooms) how Kary Mullis realized the Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR).  However, he was working with DNA in reality NOT "Interdimensional Travel" in your fantasies. :wink: 


Exactly! Thanks for the example. It is not inconceivable then, nor without precedence. Which, among all my questions ... is one of my points ... 'It is not outside the realm of possibillities'. :smile:

LOL 

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: guitarmon]
    #2096565 -

Exactly! Thanks for the example. It is not inconceivable then, nor without precedence.

Well, actually it is without precedence. The scientist in question, Kary Mullis, had a PhD in chemistry and had been working on the problem for years.

Not ONE scientist has a degree in interdimensional travel; nor is a youngster who takes shrooms after a Matrix movie going to come up with some physics breakthrough.

Technological advances come about through study, understanding and discipline.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: Swami]
    #2096617 -

guitarmon and swami:

I wasn't directing any comments in my previous post towards either of you, or anyone else in particular. Just general observations. If something I said offended either of you personally, you should deal with that issue by yourself, because I was not commenting on anyone in particular.

that is all.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: Swami]
    #2096635 -

Swami,

LOL :wink:  Splitt hairs and harangue all you want ... your point is irrelevant.

The fact remains: A scientist (or anybody) still COULD gain insight via psychedelics. That fact is incontrovertible. That is my point.

Computer Science or Quantum Mechanics didn't exist 200 years ago in any University.  It is not inconceivable that 'Interdimensional Sciece' won't be taught in Univercites 200 years from now.

I've simply posed the questions ...

You say its impossible ... and ask for proof, fine.

Yet, you can't provide any scientific evidence to the contrary either. I understand your frustration. :wink: LOL




Edited by guitarmon (11/12/03 10:07 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: guitarmon]
    #2096668 -

The fact remains: A scientist (or anybody) still COULD gain insight via psychedelics. That fact is incontrovertible. That is my point.
The fact remains: A scientist (or anybody) still COULD gain insight via clipping their toenails. That fact is incontrovertible. That is my point.

You don't make a single argument to back up your proposition that psychedelics could be useful in leading to new technology.

How many new technologies came from M.I.T. or BellLabs or Stanford as compared to Woodstock, Greatful Dead concerts or Burning Man?

Yet, you can't provide any scientific evidence to the contrary either.
Please read up on logic and the disproving of a negative. Repeating this fallacy only makes you look uneducated.





--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: Swami]
    #2096707 -

Quote:
A scientist (or anybody) still COULD gain insight via clipping their toenails.



True, but your facisnation with toenails is irrelevant to this discussion. Stay on topic.


Quote:
You don't make a single argument to back up your proposition that psychedelics could be useful in leading to new technology.



I didn't, but Sclorch gave a good example a few posts above. Thanks again Sclorch.

Quote:
Please read up on logic and the disproving of a negative. Repeating this fallacy only makes you look uneducated.




Are you running out of ideas already, and resorting to personal attacks? What a shame.

Your inability to acknowledge even the slight possibility that it 'could' happen, might lead people to believe you have no imagination.

YOU asked for proof and evidence, yet you can't provide any to back up your views. Ironic.







Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: Swami]
    #2096743 -

Quote:
You don't make a single argument to back up your proposition that psychedelics could be useful in leading to new technology.

How many new technologies came from M.I.T. or BellLabs or Stanford as compared to Woodstock, Greatful Dead concerts or Burning Man?




not to be a bitch or anything, but isn't it fallacious to compare such extreme examples?

What about a compromise between MIT and Woodstock? Like, oh I dunno, the combination of College and Weekly Psychedlic Sessions? I think that would be a beneficial lifestyle to any thought process (assuming mental health, of course). Balance is the key here, not extremes.

just my .02

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: Swami]
    #2096770 -

Quote:
How many new technologies came from M.I.T. or BellLabs or Stanford as compared to Woodstock, Greatful Dead concerts or Burning Man?


Technophilia is an evolutionary dead end. When BellLabs and burning man have reconciled each as valid then some interesting paradigms of reality will become apparent.
WR:rasta: 


--------------------
To old for this place

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   MagicBag.co Certified Organic All-In-One Grow Bags by Magic Bag   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Psychedelics and mysticism Kid 2,945 16 06/30/01 05:45 PM
by davidgergen
* No Interstellar Travel
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )		 OrgoneConclusion 5,821 98 08/02/07 09:34 PM
by onlynow
* Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos
( 1 2 all )		 GoBlue! 2,749 34 12/12/02 11:24 AM
by raytrace
* brain chems (DMT/psychedelics) vs spritual vessels DigitalDuality 4,000 13 07/13/04 06:44 AM
by JacquesCousteau
* Psychedelics and children
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )		 Metasyn 12,832 131 04/28/16 06:17 PM
by MarkostheGnostic
* Astral Travel on shrooms Psi_fex 2,708 1 10/25/02 07:05 AM
by akyouser_oner
* Spirtual benefits from high doses of psychedelics
( 1 2 3 all )		 MOTH 3,763 46 05/07/05 07:22 AM
by MarkostheGnostic
* Even more time travel. recalcitrant 1,498 16 09/19/03 12:31 PM
by Strumpling

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
12,815 topic views. 1 members, 122 guests and 31 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.03 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 16 queries.