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InvisibleMOTH
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Spirtual benefits from high doses of psychedelics
    #4136212 - 05/05/05 04:38 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe this is an old topic...but what spiritual benefits do you get from high doses of psychedelics?

One thing for me...is that I get "cleaned out..." Like, my last high dose trip changed my life. But after a year (on May 7th 2005), I realize I am "losing" or forgetting the special things that I learned from the trip. My ego is retaking control, all memory of that reduced "humbleness" and oneness vanishing. So my urge is to take the same dose again and see what happens...

Do you believe it is wrong to use psychelics as an aid to reset your 'internal center?'

I believe the key word here is "aid." I don't believe meaningful psychdelic experiences can mean a thing unless the traveler takes the experiences and uses them to benefit his sober life...

So what do you think? Just need some feedback from other voyagers...


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Offlinetomk
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Re: Spirtual benefits from high doses of psychedelics [Re: MOTH]
    #4136240 - 05/05/05 05:00 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Funny, I was just thinking of a similar topic.  Probably another sign you were meant to listen to that playlist...

Here is what I was thinking.  Psychedelics are great.  They show you you are dreaming all your waking life.  However, they do not show you this by waking you up, they show you this by waking you up from one dream into another.  This is an important step.  But, it will never wake you up.  The trick is acquiring the disipline to constantly be awake.  This involves meditation, among other things.  You have to be willing to constantly torture yourself.  Spiritual growth causes so much pain.

Yes, I'd say it's time to redose.  But, I'd also keep in mind that wherever you wake up after you redose, you are still in a dream.  It takes work and patience.  :thumbup:

PS That Robert Fripp is awake.


--------------------
"I am eternally free"


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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: Spirtual benefits from high doses of psychedelics [Re: tomk]
    #4136440 - 05/05/05 07:24 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

You think you get cleaned out, but aren't you still filling the vase?


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar


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OfflineAjna_Chakra
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Re: Spirtual benefits from high doses of psychedelics [Re: MOTH]
    #4136459 - 05/05/05 07:32 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

This subject has been in my thoughts of late as well.

Basically, what I've come to understand, theories and philosophy aside, I need psychedelics to show me the path, not help me walk it. That ... is up to me. And I think that's what they do, show you what is possible. And if we decide to walk the path, as human beings we tend to forget easily so we need constant reminders = redose.

"There is a Difference between Knowing the Path and Walking the Path."


--------------------
All glory to the Hypnotoad!



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InvisibleMovingTarget

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Re: Spirtual benefits from high doses of psychedelics [Re: Ajna_Chakra]
    #4136487 - 05/05/05 07:48 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

who was it that said, modern medicine makes you feel good now but bad later, indian medicine makes you feel bad now but good later...

I love that :laugh:


--------------------



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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Spirtual benefits from high doses of psychedelics [Re: Ajna_Chakra]
    #4136704 - 05/05/05 10:01 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ajna_Chakra said:
Basically, what I've come to understand, theories and philosophy aside, I need psychedelics to show me the path, not help me walk it. That ... is up to me. And I think that's what they do, show you what is possible. And if we decide to walk the path, as human beings we tend to forget easily so we need constant reminders = redose.

"There is a Difference between Knowing the Path and Walking the Path."




I agree with this post 100%!  :heart:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spirtual benefits from high doses of psychedelics [Re: tomk]
    #4136858 - 05/05/05 11:13 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

tomk said:
Funny, I was just thinking of a similar topic.  Probably another sign you were meant to listen to that playlist...

Here is what I was thinking.  Psychedelics are great.  They show you you are dreaming all your waking life.  However, they do not show you this by waking you up, they show you this by waking you up from one dream into another.  This is an important step.  But, it will never wake you up.  The trick is acquiring the disipline to constantly be awake.  This involves meditation, among other things.  You have to be willing to constantly torture yourself.  Spiritual growth causes so much pain.

Yes, I'd say it's time to redose.  But, I'd also keep in mind that wherever you wake up after you redose, you are still in a dream.  It takes work and patience.  :thumbup:

PS That Robert Fripp is awake.




Very interesting and I agree! Redose!!!!! :mushroom2: I have a friend whose experiences with committed doses changed my prespective somewhat.  He was very courageous. He would drive to the redwoods, to a place he had never been. At dusk he would find a trail and start eating dried shrooms as he walked. He would spend the night in the trees and ususlly scared himself so bad that he (ego) thought he was dying. He would go through the surrendering process and come back cleansed and whole. After a period the ego would start to take hold in it's old patterns of fear based living. As soon as he noticed this he would go out and do it again, increasing the dose 1/2 gram over the last time. He did this eight times. After this he said his ego never went back to that old place of fear. Now I have known this amazing man for four years now. I can attest this is true. He seems to have almost no fear. He lives like someone tripping all the time. By that I mean filled with joy and compassion for everyone. He never is offended by anyone, yet still can get angry and have most emotional states, but he's not attached to them. Like a little child, these states pass through and not held on to. It's really amazing to see. I know of many self proclaimed enlightened people. I live in one of those very new age towns. But to me he is the only genuine one.

Any way I think this process could work for many people who were ready for it. I have been endevoring this myself and have done it twice. I know that when the voice inside says it's time you need to go then. If you wait too long you sort of have to start near the beginning. Of course this is only one path. But I think a very good one. :heart: :mushroom2:


Thank you for not starting another discussion on religion! To me this is the real deal, for mature warriors ready to face the unknown without props. This IMO is the real work of growth. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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how high [Re: Icelander]
    #4137164 - 05/05/05 12:32 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

be careful, I think the path is not a bad one.
you can tell when the kinks need ironing, and you are familiar with the service - by all means go to the cleaners for your pressing.
no big deal.
some more often than others.
some only go for once in a lifetime, like a bar mitzva.

but how high do you mean?
or do you just mean high enough to get pressed.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: how high [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4137241 - 05/05/05 12:51 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Well TM called the committed dose of mushrooms 5 or more grams dried. He said that was enough to flatten even the most reluctant ego. More is better if you can take it, but for most people 5 would be enough.

My view on this is when the ego is out of commission for awhile the other aspects of self come through. Some of these aspects are beyond belief for most of us. Anyway, also for a short time after a trip your cultural matrix programming is inoperative. You can use this time to consciously reprogram yourself with more life affirming programs. Even if you don't purposely do that just the fact that the ego structure was interrupted for awhile will cause change in many people, expecially if they want that.  :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineleturheadread
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Re: Spirtual benefits from high doses of psychedelics [Re: Icelander]
    #4137277 - 05/05/05 12:56 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I have a friend whose experiences with committed doses changed my prespective somewhat. He was very courageous. He would drive to the redwoods, to a place he had never been. At dusk he would find a trail and start eating dried shrooms as he walked. He would spend the night in the trees and ususlly scared himself so bad that he (ego) thought he was dying. He would go through the surrendering process and come back cleansed and whole.




This is something i have wanted to do as i love nature and recently moved to the mountains but the woods on my grandmas land and even the land around my town is loaded with bears and cougars, so im a lil scared to venture into the woods in the dark fuct on shrooms, but i guess thats the point isnt it.i think for now im goin to have to keep my night tripping to town and the bushes and trees around town. it would however be a good idea to go into the woods camping at night with a sitter or 2 to work the bear spray haha.

theres a place in the woods here were these people have built all this stuff with rocks from the creek, they have reshaped the whole creek bed for like 300yards and made benches and fire pits all out of rock, theres 100s of rock sculptures all over up there to its amazing. It realy does look like something done by an ancient civilizatoin, i assume it was jewish peoople who made it however as there are wooden stars of david made all over. its fuckin amazing though i think i will go up there camping for a week this summer with a couple bags of goodies a couple hand drums and have a good ol pow wow. i am hoping to build a sweat lodge up there aswell but am confused as to how to go about it as of yet.
anywho redose and say good by to the ego for a while longer.


--------------------
"Im the conundrummer in a band called Life Puzzler" RENAGADE ANGEL
-trip trip along
spend your day
don't spend it all
trip trip
trip but don't fall-


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spirtual benefits from high doses of psychedelics [Re: leturheadread]
    #4137380 - 05/05/05 01:25 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Letur! Sounds so very Beatiful. Just right! Now I live in the mountains also. Lots of elk and cougars and bears too. I just went anyway. It took me a year to work up the courage to do it the first time. I can say though the change in my life has been worth it in spades. Here's where a mature faith in life is necessary, and a willingness to challenge your egos death fears.

I found that making a rattle of materials you find or work with yourself is very helpful up there alone when you've put yourself to the test. It helped me focus and also express my feelings to the powers you may also meet out there. I wish you great fortune. I salute your courage. Go for it. :heart: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefreddurgan
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Re: Spirtual benefits from high doses of psychedelics [Re: Icelander]
    #4137469 - 05/05/05 01:57 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I would say if you re-dose, start doing something else after you're done to promote yourself. Meditate, get a decent job, maybe go back to school? Peace corps, learn something.

I would reccomend learning something. Nothing in this world makes me feel more at peace than learning something. It's self-empowerment and self-bettering in every way. You aren't "aquiring" something, you are just making yourself better by knowing something new that you didn't know.

That's what I do and I love it. Maybe it will work for you?

*note* Nothing that I have "learned" at Georgia Tech has given me that pleasure except for my Psychology class. I learned all the things that make me happy on my own. However I'm a Psych major now, so school will take a great leap of joy from here on out.

Go for it! <3 Ellemy


--------------------
Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Spirtual benefits from high doses of psychedelics [Re: leturheadread]
    #4137482 - 05/05/05 02:00 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

This is something i have wanted to do as i love nature and recently moved to the mountains but the woods on my grandmas land and even the land around my town is loaded with bears and cougars, so im a lil scared to venture into the woods in the dark fuct on shrooms,

Hmmm, let's see: 50,000 deaths per year in cars vs. about 5-10 mortal bear and panther attacks. See thread on irrational fears.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleMovingTarget

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Re: Spirtual benefits from high doses of psychedelics [Re: Swami]
    #4137487 - 05/05/05 02:01 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Theres about 50000(at least) times as many people that hang out on roads than in forests.


--------------------



Edited by MovingTarget (05/05/05 02:03 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spirtual benefits from high doses of psychedelics [Re: Swami]
    #4137500 - 05/05/05 02:08 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
This is something i have wanted to do as i love nature and recently moved to the mountains but the woods on my grandmas land and even the land around my town is loaded with bears and cougars, so im a lil scared to venture into the woods in the dark fuct on shrooms,

Hmmm, let's see: 50,000 deaths per year in cars vs. about 5-10 mortal bear and panther attacks. See thread on irrational fears.




Irrational or not Swami, it's real fear and it needs to be faced if you are going to try this at night. Those people are not afraid of cars because they spend all of their time in them. How many people spend one night alone on a mountain without a tent or props, around the territory of animals that could kill you? More people would be killed by these animals if they did I assure you. Still it's not likely. Try convincing yourself of that though on a huge dose of shrooms when all the boogy men come out to play. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Spirtual benefits from high doses of psychedelics [Re: MOTH]
    #4137535 - 05/05/05 02:22 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

"what spiritual benefits do you get from high doses of psychedelics?"

None. The spiritual benefit of knowing one's own mind is well known, though. Sometimes....and I said sometimes, high doses of psychedics can assist in this endeavor for one well prepared. Taking psychedelics too frequently (more than a five or six times a year maybe) can have a negative impact on one's growth as a human. That is just my take of course.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Spirtual benefits from high doses of psychedelics [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4137573 - 05/05/05 02:30 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

If your dose is committed and your mind set. I can't imaginge doing it more than that, at most. :thumbup: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (05/05/05 02:30 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Spirtual benefits from high doses of psychedelics [Re: Icelander]
    #4137602 - 05/05/05 02:35 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Those numbers are my high end numbers for the impatient. I stick to more like 2 per year. My doses are very high though by most standards.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineAjna_Chakra
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Re: Spirtual benefits from high doses of psychedelics [Re: freddurgan]
    #4138927 - 05/05/05 07:32 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

freddurgan said:
I would reccomend learning something. Nothing in this world makes me feel more at peace than learning something. It's self-empowerment and self-bettering in every way. You aren't "aquiring" something, you are just making yourself better by knowing something new that you didn't know.




Same here, man. And without that aspect of it, I couldn't continue using high doses of psychedelics and remain outwardly coherent - it's like a form of meditation for me, and it keeps me anchored to reality.

As for high dose trips, I take them anywhere between 3 to 6 times a year, depending on my mental and emotional state and how things are going in my life. I generally try to keep life's little complications as minimal as possible because for me, the mushrooms are not something I do, they are a very real and important part of my life. We have a long way to go together, and much to learn, and I want the journey to be as safe as possible, and still be able to function as a "normal" person in society and hold a good job and all the other great things life has to other ... I don't want sacrifice either my trippin or every day life - and I think that is a difficult path to follow.

Some people have trouble understanding that, though, especially loved ones.

I should add that I take "a lot" of small doses throughout the year - for nature walks, to look at art, etc etc etc just for fun.


--------------------
All glory to the Hypnotoad!



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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Spirtual benefits from high doses of psychedelics [Re: MOTH]
    #4139072 - 05/05/05 08:08 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, but, you must understand by way of ancient Wisdom in any number of sacred models that the Enlightenment process in NOT a one-way linear path to permanent Oneness. This is central. It is not an ascent alone, but a descent as well. Whether one understands the inner meaning of Moses' ascent to Mt. Sinai, a "Peak Experience," and a descent back to humanity, or the Tibetan Buddhist Yoga of the Inner Fire which follows a 'shephard's crook' path of ascent from the Root Center, through the other Centers to the Head Center [Ascent Toward Universality - OM], and then a 'cascade' downward [Descent Toward Realization - HUM] through the Throat Center [Knowledge] to the Heart Center.

One must understand that the at the 'Peak,' a very high, pristine, blindingly white, rarified 'atmosphere' exists. (The experience symbolized by the seed-syllable OM). It is the 'high-point' of human transcendental existence, but it is quite sterile there and human life cannot dwell for long at such rarified heights. The Experience of OM must be transferred back to the plane of human Realization (symbolized by the seed-syllable HUM [as in HUMan]). This is the Tibetan Buddhist model which uses the syllables OM-AH-HUM to describe the highest values of the three highest Centers after an Enlightenment Experience.

In the Hindu model of Kundalini Yoga, Sri Chinmoy once said of this process: "The third eye is the vision centre. First we want to enjoy the vision of Bliss. And then, after we have enjoyed the Bliss, we have to put it somewhere for permanent use. And that is the heart." (Buddhist Yoga combines the upper two Head Centers and the lower two Root Centers - 5 Centers instead of 7).

The Kabbalistic Tree sees Tiphereth, the Heart, as the Center between Earth [Malkuth] and Heaven [Kether]. Tiphereth is the Higher Self that we come to dwell in above the personality (and ego). Again, same message. The Hopi Indians and Taoist Yogis say similar things. One must Know the process and not make assumptions about it that are contrary to psychospiritual nature or we'll wrongly believe that we have failed in our aspirations.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (05/05/05 09:09 PM)


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