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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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No Interstellar Travel
#7240315 - 07/30/07 03:17 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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The speed of light appears to be inviolate and new technologies and discoveries are highly unlikely to change that.
Some here who do not grasp The Theory of Relativity may comeback with, "They said that about the sound barrier," or "They said man would never fly." These are not proper analogies. Actually there is no proper analogy.
This makes me sad as the whole universe beckons for us to investigate and it seems now and forever to be impossible to do more than send an unmanned probe to the nearest star. And if we are still here when the sun flares/dims there will be nowhere to go.
Good-bye mankind.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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This assumes that the shortest distance between two points will always be a straight line.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: No Interstellar Travel [Re: Veritas]
#7240325 - 07/30/07 03:19 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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No, relativity states that is not the case.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Will it always be necessary to travel at light speed in order to traverse vast "straight line" distances? If we could "bend" space, the travel time would not be a factor.
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onlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Registered: 02/06/07
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-------------------- Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: No Interstellar Travel [Re: Veritas]
#7240362 - 07/30/07 03:31 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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An object as massive as the sun only bends space a little bit. Now all you would have to do is to 'place' a galaxy just where you want it to get the proper curvature...
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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But you're talking about manipulation of space by existing, non-intentional objects...what about deliberate manipulation with technology?
BTW, my curvature is just fine, thanks.
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lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger
Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
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In addition to that, terraforming planets such as mars does not seem very likely, or at least likely to occur very fast... it would probably take millions of years to do. So yeah we are basically stuck here.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: No Interstellar Travel [Re: Veritas]
#7240412 - 07/30/07 03:49 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
But you're talking about manipulation of space by existing, non-intentional objects...what about deliberate manipulation with technology?
Mass (or its energy equivalent) and LOTS of it, is what is required to bend space sufficiently A machine, no matter how sophisticated, would be unable to supply the needed force.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Not even by supplying the "energy equivalent"? I'm not saying that it is possible now, nor that it will ever be, but theoretically it could be done.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: No Interstellar Travel [Re: Veritas]
#7240431 - 07/30/07 03:58 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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First you will need a unicorn, a crystal and some rainbow dust...
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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You forgot that I need to believe it can be done.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
Registered: 05/07/04
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Hehe, no, you don't need to believe. In fact you have to disbelieve that: "If you go to light speed with a mass, dude, the mass will grow annd reach infinitum as it reaches lightspeed, and dude, really, the whooole uuuuniverse willl coollapse theen !" Does this happen at Cern anydays ? And they bring every kind of particles to (almost) light speed, at time.
Aren't the probabilities higher, that the mass doesn't convert into gravitational energy but into some other forms of energy ?
I'll tell you, Einstein was a bitch.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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This is a science and technology discussion, but I will have a go. The theory of relativity would allow for interstellar travel as NEAR light speeds would allow the travelers to enjoy more time relative to those sitting still. They would age far slower relatively due to speed, and could foreseeably reach near to medium distance stars in their lifetimes. When and if they returned they would find themselves in a more distant future than the sum of their years...so there might be some shock there for them. WIth a 1G acceleration for an extended time interstellar travel IS possible.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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I would be definitifely in there to try how fast we can get
I mean, thinking that the universe will collapse is like the good ol' celts being afraid the sky would fall on their heads.
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Kinematics
coyote vision
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That's okay with me, there is plenty here on earth for me to keep me happy.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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An object as massive as the sun only bends space a little bit. Now all you would have to do is to 'place' a galaxy just where you want it to get the proper curvature...
Ahh but you are ignoring certain aspects of density
A galaxy is mind-bogglingly massive, but the mass is spread over hundreds of thousands of light-years. Presumably, if we had the tech, we could use small amounts of matter in a very small space - black holes. A black hole bends space more than makes sense.
Mass (or its energy equivalent) and LOTS of it, is what is required to bend space sufficiently A machine, no matter how sophisticated, would be unable to supply the needed force.
A black hole bends space to the extreme, and black holes do not have to be massive...the LHC, when they turn it on, should prove this.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
Edited by trendal (07/30/07 06:08 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: No Interstellar Travel [Re: trendal]
#7240989 - 07/30/07 07:20 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Did you know that the term Black Hole is not used by Russian scientists. They use the term Frozen Star.
The reason? Black Hole is an obscenity in Russian.
Seriously!
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
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Re: No Interstellar Travel [Re: BlueCoyote]
#7241009 - 07/30/07 07:25 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
BlueCoyote said: Einstein was a bitch.
Well now, I have never heard anyone say THAT before....!?
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
This is a science and technology discussion, but I will have a go.
Not from my perspective. I was experiencing some anguish and frustration at the fact that we are unlikely to go far from this berg to explore the vast reaches around us. Those emotions and the repercussions are what I truly wanted to discuss; not any futuristic technology nor Einstein's equations.
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