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 nubious
1up on the rest
Registered: 10/20/02
Posts: 534
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 8 months, 18 days
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 Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos  [Re: 1stimer]
#1131544 - 12/11/02 10:26 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just keep in mind that god is just dog spelled backwards... 
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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.
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nubious
1up on the rest
Registered: 10/20/02
Posts: 534
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 8 months, 18 days
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 Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: nubious]
#1131546 - 12/11/02 10:26 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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after posting I looked at my avatar.. heh... son of a bitch!
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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.
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Baby_Hitler
MAGAt Hunter
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 28,133
Loc: I'm right behind you, aren't I...
Last seen: 44 minutes, 40 seconds
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: GoBlue!]
#1132364 - 12/11/02 10:52 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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Reproductive cloning is wrong because it is child abuse.Clones are notoriously unhealthy.
Theraputic cloning good, reproductive cloning bad.
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Morality is just aesthetics, meatbags.
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#1132418 - 12/11/02 11:10 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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Reproductive cloning is wrong because it is child abuse.Clones are notoriously unhealthy.
Just because past experiments have turned out that way doesn't mean that the problems can't be fixed and clones could be born just as healthy as anyone else...
I think it's going to be done, regardless of any laws, ethical or political. 
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 { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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Anonymous
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 Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#1132475 - 12/11/02 11:30 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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I agree with you but then I read the article. I wonder how many took the time to read it.
"Contacted by telephone on Saturday, Antinori told Reuters "I am not talking to journalists."
Here we see that it may not even be true.
Dr Ehab Kelada, clinical director at the London Fertility Centre, said Antinori must clarify the report immediately.
"The scientific community will be very alarmed," he told Reuters.
"If this report is true, it is shocking. We don't know how safe cloning is for humans nd it is dangerous to embark on this path without proper regulations or guidelines."
No regulations or guidelines? I think, and I am just spitballing here, we probably need some kind of guidelines since we are dealing with human life.
Rudolf Jaenisch, professor of biology and a leading cloning scientist based at the Whitehead Institute at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said: "It is totally outrageous and irresponsible to attempt cloning of humans when we know there is a very high probability of severe abnormalities, even if the baby survived to birth, which is extremely doubtful.
Are you guys saying that you don't care if a human is born with severe abnormalities?
"In fact, death before birth would be the best outcome."
Antinori has previously pledged to attempt to clone a baby by the end of 2001.
Richard Nicholson, editor of the UK-based Bulletin of Medical Ethics, said he was sceptical of the claim, but said if it was true the baby's future was grim.
"I don't believe Dr Antinori has in any way considered the welfare of the offspring," Nicholson told the Press Association.
"I think he is trying to achieve personal notoriety. I don't believe he is truly trying to advance science for the benefit of mankind.
I agree. "Dr." Antinori is nothing more than a shock jock in a lab coat as far as I'm concerned. He has the morals of a lab rat. I wonder if he has Dr. Mengele as a partner?
"With the sort of publicity-seeking Antinori goes in for, any resulting child clone is likely to become little more than a freak show.
"Given the accelerated ageing seen in cloned animals, this child is not going to have a particularly happy or normal childhood."
Biologists in general have some pretty disturbing factoids surrounding them. Eugenics is but one.
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Murex
Reality Hacker
Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryo [Re: ribbit]
#1132499 - 12/11/02 11:41 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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I like this topic so far. However, I believe that most cloning will be just organs and not whole humans!
Most people against cloning really don't know the facts.
Stem cells are not human beings! We should use them dammit! 
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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?
Edited by Murex (12/11/02 11:42 AM)
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 FreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
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 Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: ]
#1132509 - 12/11/02 11:45 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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Leave it to YOU Mr Shrooms to ruin a good story with FACTS!
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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"
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3eyedgod
trippinkid
Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 684
Loc: Far away and very near
Last seen: 21 years, 10 months
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: GoBlue!]
#1132794 - 12/11/02 01:47 PM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't support cloning whole human beings. I find it rather pointless, as chodamunky said it will just be an aesthetic thing for the rich. I hardly think they will create "superior" humans (though they may perceive them to be). Hair color, eye color, height, etc..., will just become fads like baggy pants or tie dye shirts.
I do however fully support stem cell research. I think the benefit to mankind will far outweigh the cost ex: almost any organ (except a whole brain) replaced, with little or no chance of rejection, brain cells for those suffering with alzheimers and other neurological disorders. I can't even begin to list all of the possibilites.
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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself
Edited by 3eyedgod (12/11/02 01:49 PM)
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Murex
Reality Hacker
Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: 3eyedgod]
#1132890 - 12/11/02 02:22 PM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hair color, eye color, height, etc..., will just become fads like baggy pants or tie dye shirts.
Don't we have colored contect lenses, liposuction and plastic surgery? Why aren't these things causing contraversy?
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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?
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Baby_Hitler
MAGAt Hunter
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 28,133
Loc: I'm right behind you, aren't I...
Last seen: 44 minutes, 40 seconds
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: Murex]
#1132955 - 12/11/02 02:48 PM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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Did you say contraversey? 
^ ^ v v < > < > B A [start]
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Morality is just aesthetics, meatbags.
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Remy
Bitches Brew
Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1,343
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: GoBlue!]
#1133183 - 12/11/02 04:13 PM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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In reply to:
How can anyone know? How can anyone even know that the soul exists in the first place?
How can anyone know that matter really exists? Nobody has ever seen matter in its singular form.
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GoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK
Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: ]
#1134927 - 12/12/02 08:43 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ya, I noticed that a human clone in January is an uncertainty. Though I have no objection to cloning in general, I would agree that this Italian dude is pretty irresponsible if he's not yet sure he can get a healthy human out of the process.
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 Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend
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GoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK
Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: Remy]
#1135014 - 12/12/02 09:18 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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How can anyone know that matter really exists? Nobody has ever seen matter in its singular form.
Who cares if matter is seen in its singular form? It's observed countless other ways. It's easy to observe matter as a solid, liquid, or gas. But how does one observe a soul? How can you determine whether or not a clone has a soul? I can tell you with absolute certainty that a clone has matter. 
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Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend
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Viveka
refutation bias
Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: 1stimer]
#1135020 - 12/12/02 09:21 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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"wouldnt a clone be nothing more than a twin, not exactly the same but really close?"
Not hardly. Although twins may be damn near physical replicas of each other, they are still created by the combination of TWO parent's genes.
Of course a clone is not the same thing as a twin because a twin is the natural offspring of TWO parents. Now if some scientist made twins by cloning, then those twins would both be replicas of ONE parent and you would have one original and two copies of the same person on the planet.
A clone is a REPLICA of one person.
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raytrace
Stranger
Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: GoBlue!]
#1135434 - 12/12/02 11:24 AM (22 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have no objection to cloning in general
wait until you learn the truth about your dad
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