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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos
    #1130789 - 12/11/02 01:10 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos

http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/2002-12-10-stanford-cloning_x.htm

Sounds exciting to me!  :grin: 


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1130802 - 12/11/02 01:19 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

wouldnt a clone be nothing more than a twin, not exactly the same but really close? is it immoral to have twins?


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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OfflineGoBlue!
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Registered: 10/27/02
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: 1stimer]
    #1130805 - 12/11/02 01:22 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Hell, I don't know why cloning is considered immoral. I'm hoping someone takes the position that it is and explains why.


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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OfflineRemy
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Registered: 06/04/02
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1130837 - 12/11/02 01:42 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I believe the main argument against cloning is that a clone would have no soul.


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OfflineGoBlue!
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Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: Remy]
    #1130841 - 12/11/02 01:46 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I believe the main argument against cloning is that a clone would have no soul.

How can anyone know?  How can anyone even know that the soul exists in the first place?  :confused: 


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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OfflineComponent
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Registered: 05/31/02
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos *DELETED* [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1130845 - 12/11/02 01:51 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by Component

Reason for deletion: ...



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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
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Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: Component]
    #1130870 - 12/11/02 02:07 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Actually, cloning isn't in our biology because if we were to make exact copies of ourselves, we couldn't evolve quickly enough.  Very few animals have survived with only one sex in their speicies, because they effectively clone themselves through virgin births, and are unable to adapt (evolve) quickly to changing environments.  That's why two sexes is predominant - it's possible to combine the best features of each sex.

While we're asking rhetorical questions, I've got one:

If God didn't want us to clone ourselves, then why did he make it possible? (rhetorical becuase I don't believe in God)  :blush: 


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


Edited by GoBlue! (12/11/02 02:20 AM)


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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryo [Re: Component]
    #1131371 - 12/11/02 11:08 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

fucking with shit is what we're best at, so I say let them clone!


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Offlinenubious
1up on the rest

Registered: 10/20/02
Posts: 534
Loc: Canada
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: Remy]
    #1131413 - 12/11/02 11:35 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I believe the main argument against cloning is that a clone would have no soul.

Well if you go with (and I can't remember his name right now) the guy who wrote "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" 's theory about the pineal gland, you see that it's developed at 49 days after conception in a human fetus - the same time a pre-born's sex is determined. Rick Strassman (it just clicked) suggested that maybe this is when the soul enters the body - if that is the case, then by cloning embryos you would technically just be giving the collective souls waiting for bodies another door they could open.

Just a thought.


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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Offlineribbit
up till dawn

Registered: 10/31/02
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryo [Re: Dogomush]
    #1131417 - 12/11/02 11:37 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

funny, i just done a paper on stem cell research and cloning.

the actual debate is not the soul, but 'is it morally right to prevent life'

prevent life: extracting the stem cells from the embryo, destroying its possiblity of becoming human.

i believe that cloning is the science way of trying to acknowledge that taking a fertilzed somewhat natural embryo does make you speculate.

some feel that cloning an embryo does not put it within the guidlines of being human, because it is so unnatural.

i am for cloning and all aspects of stem cell research. i think that protestors are kind of ignorant. 'speaking of americans' because we sacraficed to many to count native americans so that they can have the life they live. i bet they would change their mind real quick if they became terminally ill, in which this research could save them.

with this technology and research we are mearly doing what every living organism does. strive for life.


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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: nubious]
    #1131469 - 12/11/02 12:00 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

"Well if you go with (and I can't remember his name right now) the guy who wrote "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" 's theory about the pineal gland, you see that it's developed at 49 days after conception in a human fetus - the same time a pre-born's sex is determined. Rick Strassman (it just clicked) suggested that maybe this is when the soul enters the body - if that is the case, then by cloning embryos you would technically just be giving the collective souls waiting for bodies another door they could open."

I agree. also, god has nothing to do with this or scientific advancement. science cant be restrained by religious rhetoric.


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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Offlinenubious
1up on the rest

Registered: 10/20/02
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Loc: Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: 1stimer]
    #1131544 - 12/11/02 12:26 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Just keep in mind that god is just dog spelled backwards... :wink: 


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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Offlinenubious
1up on the rest

Registered: 10/20/02
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Loc: Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: nubious]
    #1131546 - 12/11/02 12:26 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

after posting I looked at my avatar.. heh... son of a bitch!


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
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Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1131742 - 12/11/02 08:06 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

If God didn't want us to clone ourselves, then why did he make it possible? (rhetorical becuase I don't believe in God)    :blush:

Hey Blue! i imagine a believer would say so that we have an opportunity(yet again) to test our own free will  :grin: 


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #1131836 - 12/11/02 09:08 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Good point Freak, but how am I supposed to know cloning is wrong if it's not mentioned in the bible?  Should I just assume it's wrong based on.... er....um....
Hey, why do religiuos people assume it's wrong again???  :wink: 


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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OfflineDavid_Scape
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Male

Registered: 08/05/02
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: Component]
    #1131867 - 12/11/02 09:26 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

"Some Italian dude already cloned a human and it is due to be born in January or sometime soon."

Are you yankin' my chain? Do you have link to somthing about this? I must find out more.


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focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
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Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1131879 - 12/11/02 09:34 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

but how am I supposed to know cloning is wrong if it's not mentioned in the bible?

i think by that criteria it would probably be considered to be in the same category as  Masturbation  :grin: 


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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OfflineGoBlue!
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Registered: 10/27/02
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #1131884 - 12/11/02 09:37 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Haha, good call!  :laugh: 


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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OfflineGoBlue!
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Registered: 10/27/02
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Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: David_Scape]
    #1131889 - 12/11/02 09:41 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I found a ton of links. Here's one from CNN (very reliable source):

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/04/06/human.clone/index.html

Kind of interesting. The article says this doctor also "succeeded in helping a 62-year-old woman give birth to a boy"

Edit: Here's an even newer link:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/11/27/italy.cloning/


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


Edited by GoBlue! (12/11/02 09:48 AM)


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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
Re: Stanford announces plans to clone human embryos [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1131895 - 12/11/02 09:44 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

as soon a you can clone a human being, then you will be able to change certain traits of the baby, ie intelligence, muscle strength, etc. This will OF COURSE be only available to the elite rich who will make their generations of families superior to other human beings, and so they will become superhumans and will tend to call themselves Gods. Anyway, human cloning is another way to divide humans from each other, causing more conflict between us. There will be people who are for cloning, other against it. It's kinda like religion, and nationalities, all these things divide human from being one. that's why we have wars, and cloning will just be adding to the fire.


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