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Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2091780 -

Swami - LOL Where's all your scientic evidence to prove me wrong? Nothing yet? Right, I thought so. Perhaps you're *cough* argument *cough* is not as strong as you thought. If you want to believe in toenails and Cap'n'Crunch, so be it. It matters not to me. My 'theory' remains 'innocent' until proven 'guilty'. I rest my case. LOL


ZenGekco - Wrong. For example, If you watched the Nova series 'The Elegant Universe' where they talked about 'string theory' ... there was some skepticism among some scientists. They thought that since there was no verifiable proof that 'strings' actually existed ... that the whole theory was more 'philosophy' than 'science'. Get it?


Sclorch - Thats your opinion ... but I have real precedent ... in our own judicial system (flawed as it is). Burden of proof rests on the prosecution. Like I said ... prove me wrong.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html

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Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: guitarmon]
    #2091914 -

guitarmon said:
My 'theory' remains 'innocent' until proven 'guilty'. I rest my case. LOL


Well, actually, from what I understand of science, a theory isn't innocent until proven guilty.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: Swami]
    #2091975 -

The pic in my avatar was taken at the wedge, well actually at cylinders, which is the right just south of the tower. I bodyboard there a lot in the summer, it doesn't break in the wintertime, needs south swells. It is an amazing place.


--------------------
_______________________________________________________________
namaste said:
no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped
_________________________________________________________________

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Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2091979 -

fireworks_god said:
guitarmon said:
My 'theory' remains 'innocent' until proven 'guilty'. I rest my case. LOL


Well, actually, from what I understand of science, a theory isn't innocent until proven guilty.
Peace.


Perhaps ... but like I said ... this is the 'Spirituality and Philosophy' forum, not the 'Science and Physics' forum. I wasn't the one to bring 'Science and Physics' into this discussion. But if you think you can use science and physics to help prove your point ... then by all means do it.

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Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: guitarmon]
    #2091990 -

guitarmon said:
Perhaps ...  but like I said ... this is the 'Spirituality and Philosophy' forum, not the 'Science and Physics' forum. I wasn't the one to bring 'Science and Physics' into this discussion. But if you think you can use science and physics to help prove your point ... then by all means do it. 


Well, this might be Spirituality and Philsophy, however, this topic at hand has some very tightly knotted ties to the world of science and physics. I mean, space travel?

By the way, I don't remember having a point to prove. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2092044 -

Quote:
By the way, I don't remember having a point to prove. :grin:
Peace. 


Let me refresh your memory then, look up at your previous post then. *shrug* Whats the point indeed? :wink: 

As you can tell, I like to debate. But things might get out of hand if I have to debate 3 or 4 dudes at once. LOL :wink:

Hey your a musician from Norway? Ever heard of Opeth? They're from Sweden I think, probably the best metal band gigging today. 

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Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: guitarmon]
    #2092047 -

When I had a level 5 trip, I didn't need to travel across the universe. I WAS the universe. However, I try not to confuse my insights from tripping with the trip itself. I know that I was not literally seeing the universe in its entirety. I only felt a sense of oneness with it. I simply take it for what it is: a new perspective, not the absolute undeniable truth.

In the same respect, I experienced God during that trip, but that doesn't mean I'm 100% convinced that there is a God(tho I personally feel that there is, and we are one with Him/Her/It), just that I have new ideas and a new perspective about the nature of God. As much as I talk about God, parallel dimensions, and being one with the universe, that doesn't mean I accept these as irrefutable facts. It's only my personal perspective based on my insights from tripping, which is why I try not to be too dogmatic about it.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: guitarmon]
    #2092074 -

guitarmon said:
Let me refresh your memory then, look up at your previous post then. *shrug* Whats the point indeed? :wink:


Well, I did have a point, but not one directly related to the main subject being discussed. Just that when one is talking about something that involves science or something related, that science does have room in the debate.

Myself, I have never done any interstellar or interdimensional travel on any substance. However, I think that it may indeed be possible to do on certain substances.

Quote:
Hey your a musician from Norway? Ever heard of Opeth? They're from Sweden I think, probably the best metal band gigging today. 


Yeah, Opeth kicks major ass. My favourite is IN FLAMES, though. I mean, Opeth is a fucking music monster, but there is just something about IN FLAMES that resonates with something inside me..

I'm not from Norway, but I'm enjoying my stay here rather nicely. :grin: I do miss not having my band to play with, though...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: Xochitl]
    #2092259 -

I do not fully grasp at what you are saying,
Not my fault.

nor do I think I engage in such apathy
You certainly do as you followed up with:

I do not have such data, nor am I particularly interested.
Apathy personified. You make my case for me.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: Noviseer]
    #2092267 -

The pic in my avatar was taken at the wedge...

See? Swami knows all. Who else could look at a 70X70 pixel image of the ocean (out of a near infinite number of locations) and determine where the picture was taken ?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: guitarmon]
    #2092297 -

Swami - LOL Where's all your scientic evidence to prove me wrong? Nothing yet? Right, I thought so. Perhaps you're *cough* argument *cough* is not as strong as you thought. If you want to believe in toenails and Cap'n'Crunch, so be it. It matters not to me. My 'theory' remains 'innocent' until proven 'guilty'. I rest my case. LOL

You have failed to answer a single question nor have you made even the weakest of cases for shroom journeying and the possibility of interstellar travel nor do you understand the basics of logical discussion.

I prefer to spend my time on worthy opponents. I don't practice martial arts on small children and frail senior citizens

Swami out.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: guitarmon]
    #2092317 -

Sure. Definitely. You could be right now, sober, without really being aware of it.


--------------------
Namaste

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Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #2092428 -

SilverSoul7 - thanks for having an open mind and sharing your insights, very interesting.

Fireworks_God - right on, In Flames rocks ... heavy, yet very melodic.

Swami - Your arrogance has blinded you to this simple fact: I merely asked the questions "Is it possible? What are your experiences?" Go back and re-read my very first post in this thread.

I have nothing to prove. You entered the thread with arrogant skepticism stating that its all impossible, and demanding proof. I merely turned your questions 'of proof' back on you ... and you balk. Whatever, I will allow you to retreat from the debate you instigated with whats left of your pride. You are dismissed.


RedNukleus - Sure, thats entirely within the realm of possibility.

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Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: Swami]
    #2092701 -

Quote:
Apathy personified. You make my case for me.


The tribes of Papua New Guinea are one of the few primative cultures left and they hold beliefs that are irrational to the western mind. There is no scientific proof that their ancenstors exist after material death to affect their lives, but yet they maintain their beliefs and are not interested in providing scientific proof to outsiders. Are they apathetic as well?

The Buddhists and Hindu see the universe as an infinite and creative force that connects all sentient beings in a cycle of karma. The dedicated practioners often arrive at their beliefs through direct experience via methods of meditation and extreme physical states. They never appeal to the western notions of scientific proof. Are they apathy personified as well?

My experiences with entheogens has been so intense and so clear that they have shaped how I view the universe; appealing to western methods of proof to validate my experiences seems to be activity for others to partake in.


--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon

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Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: Xochitl]
    #2092921 -

apathy = activity for others to partake in


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: guitarmon]
    #2092957 -

Here are some tests to see if psychedelic "travel" is real:

- Build an enclosed room with a note, and ask the traveller to read the note from far away.
- Have one traveller communicate a message to another traveller.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom

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Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: Swami]
    #2093052 -

can you answer my two other questions please?


--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon

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Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: Xochitl]
    #2093356 -

Xochitl said:
Quote:
Apathy personified. You make my case for me.


The tribes of Papua New Guinea are one of the few primative cultures left and they hold beliefs that are irrational to the western mind. There is no scientific proof that their ancenstors exist after material death to affect their lives, but yet they maintain their beliefs and are not interested in providing scientific proof to outsiders. Are they apathetic as well?


Are they really holding on to their beliefs in the face of Western culture, or have they simply had minimal exposure to it? Most tribes that have been exposed to Western culture tend to adopt their religion(either Christianity or Islam).

Quote:
The Buddhists and Hindu see the universe as an infinite and creative force that connects all sentient beings in a cycle of karma. The dedicated practioners often arrive at their beliefs through direct experience via methods of meditation and extreme physical states. They never appeal to the western notions of scientific proof. Are they apathy personified as well?


Ridiculous analogy. One of the Buddha's foremost teachings is to question everything. They don't dismiss science. They simply understand that there are certain things which are not scientifically verifiable, and which can't be explained through logic. Interstellar travel via psychedelics, if it were possible, would be easily verifiable by having the the subject report back details which they did not previously know of, but which are scientifically established.

Quote:
My experiences with entheogens has been so intense and so clear that they have shaped how I view the universe; appealing to western methods of proof to validate my experiences seems to be activity for others to partake in.


My view of the universe has also been radically shaped by intense experiences with entheogens. However, I don't make the fallacy of assuming that psychedelics give one such radical powers as interstellar travel. I am sick of people thinking that just because Western science and philosophy are flawed and incomplete that that somehow makes them useless.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2093407 -

Quote:
They simply understand that there are certain things which are not scientifically verifiable, and which can't be explained through logic.


My point exactly. I never said science is useless, either.

Quote:
Interstellar travel via psychedelics, if it were possible, would be easily verifiable by having the the subject report back details which they did not previously know of, but which are scientifically established.


I never argued in favor of intersteller travel via psychedelics. Re-read my posts.


--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon

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Re: interdimensional/interstellar travel via psychedelics? [Re: pattern]
    #2093447 -

pattern said:
Here are some tests to see if psychedelic "travel" is real:

- Build an enclosed room with a note, and ask the traveller to read the note from far away.
- Have one traveller communicate a message to another traveller.


That would be a logical test, sure. But ... you are making the assumption that when someone takes psychedelics ... they will be able to 'control' where 'it' takes them.

Maybe some people have the mental disipline and 'control' to guide themselves to 'EXACTLY where they wish to go via psychedelics ... and 'mold' their trip into exactly what they wish. But not everyone.

In my experience (the only one I can speak for) ... I don't have that type of control. The 'shroom trip' takes me where IT wants to go ... and shows me what IT wants me to see.

Kind of like going to an airport blindfolded ... and hopping on a plane at random. You don't know where you will end up. Kind of hard to 'test the theory' if you don't where you're going to end up.


But ... if thru meditation and mental disipline, you were somehow able to focus and 'guide' your trip to exactly where you wanted to go ... could it be possible?

Why? or Why not?

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