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Offlinebum
journeyman

Registered: 03/28/02
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Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
What determines mushroom size?
    #1966474 - 09/30/03 05:06 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Why do some mushrooms grow to monstrous proportions and some turn out small in the wild?


Edited by bum (08/27/09 04:41 PM)


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Invisibledysphoria
lost soul

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Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1,651
Re: What determines mushroom size? [Re: bum]
    #1966492 - 09/30/03 05:12 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

the nutrients provided, the relative humidity, the water content, the ph, the phase of the moon, the pull of the tide...all have something to do with fruit size. (just kidding on the moon/tide stuff)

the substrate its grown on also has a bearing, mushrooms grown on straw/hay tend to be reported as big fruiters.

-jb

p.s. the small ones in the wild are from the exact same things, the only difference is, nature dictates what the mushrooms get and dont get, whereas in this hobby, we dictate that. an overly dry year, an overly rainy year, etc will all produce 'less than average' fruit sizes.



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Anonymous

Re: What determines mushroom size? [Re: bum]
    #1966661 - 09/30/03 06:07 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

heredity and environment.  :tongue:

seriously though...

genetics is an important factor, as is depth of substrate and fruiting conditions.

deeper substrate = bigger fruits & more yeild.

optimum fruiting conditions (correct casing moisture content, pH and colonization level, correct humidity, good temp, and plenty of fresh air) = bigger fruits and more yeild.

using a large fruiting strain such as orissa india or B+, or even better, tissue culture from a large fruit = large fruits.

the actual size of the individual mushrooms says nothing for yeild though.


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Invisibledysphoria
lost soul

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Re: What determines mushroom size? [Re: ]
    #1966695 - 09/30/03 06:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

thanks for that addition MM
didnt think at the time to add those, especially the genetics.
to be honest that one didnt even cross my mind until you said it, one of those "ohhh yea!!" moments. =)

-jb


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OfflinePsilopleix
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Registered: 11/03/03
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Re: What determines mushroom size? [Re: dysphoria] * 1
    #1966724 - 09/30/03 06:29 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I also think the mycelium maturity has something to do with mushroom size. The biggest mushrooms i've seen came off buried substrate that was colonized for 2 months before pinning was initiated. The pins themselves were huge! Anyone else wanna back me up in saying that the more nutrients the mycelium has gathered the bigger the shrooms will be? Just a theory...


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: What determines mushroom size? [Re: dysphoria]
    #1966756 - 09/30/03 06:38 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I think that mass of substrate is more related to fruit size than simply depth. That's why straw shrooms are so big, cuz it's easy to create a large mycelial mass. Small trays of straw on the other hand typically yield smaller fruits.

Also, I'd like to add a few things to mushmasters
Quote:

and plenty of fresh air) = bigger fruits



Not necessarily. For example, in a finely tuned system, playing around with the co2 levels can lead to much larger fruits than simply giving lots of fresh air. High co2 makes the stems stretch, but get it too high, and you end up with skinny stems and small caps. Detailed manipulation of co2 levels allows one to stretch the stems with high co2 levels, but not let co2 get too high so as to not stunt cap size or stem thickness.

Along these same lines, certain strains (pure cultures, not spore strains) are much more resistant to the small cap, skinny stem reaction to high co2 levels. These strains came be made huge in a low/no fresh air environment.

But in general Mushmaster's right, for most people and most strains, plenty of fresh air will yield bigger fruits than not enough fresh air.

Also, biggest fruits I've ever seen in my life were border busters. They pinned from the side of a tray, well below the casing surface. Border breakers are commonly the largest shrooms ever seen, by many cultivators. Nobody has really proven why, but it's pretty consistent. If somebody's been growing for a while, their largest shrooms were most likely border breaks.


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"From a certain point of view"
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PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Offlinehyper_dermic
stranger withcandy

Registered: 06/26/02
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Re: What determines mushroom size? [Re: bum]
    #1967152 - 09/30/03 08:48 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

depth of substrate, and nutritional content

poo and straw work very very well,
make substrate depth AT LEAST 5 inches
i usually make mine from 5-7 depending on what tray im using

ive fruited HUGE fruits from strains that were supposed to be "small"
so i dont think that plays as big as a part...

[hyp]


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OfflineISH
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Re: What determines mushroom size? [Re: hyper_dermic]
    #1968484 - 10/01/03 03:24 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I Agree, many factors influence size, but if you do a search for bulk teks that used an isolated strain, perhaps off of a huge fresh fruitbody, WOW you see how even the flushes are, and how pinning occurs everywhere that light can touch. Also when your growing from spores, especially from a single print, only about 3/4 of the mycelial structure will actually be able to fruit.
This is because not all monokaryotic mycelium(consisting of a single nuclei) finds a mate, only the ones that do and form into Dykariotic mycelium(consisting of 2 nuclei), will form anto hyphal knots, and produce fruit.

So cloning a healthy fruit, growing it out on Agar, and then spawning bulk(straw/poop), with your choice of grains, is the best way to go about to getting huge and abundant fruits.

Here is a link to cloning
http://www.fungifun.org/cloning/

And This is a bulk tek donne with cloning.
BULK NEGLECT TEK

ISH


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I think of going to the grave without having a psychedelic experience, like going to the grave without having sex. It means that you never figured out what it was all about. The mystery is in the body, and the way the body works itself into nature.
- Terence McKenna, Archaic Revival


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: What determines mushroom size? [Re: ISH]
    #1969634 - 10/01/03 03:55 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

ISH, the link to my bulk neglect report in the forum doesn't have active pictures for some reason.  For the complete thread, with pics click:
  Bulk Neglect
Or just check out my avatar for some large fruits.

Thanks for remembering bulk neglect :smile:


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Offlinehyper_dermic
stranger withcandy

Registered: 06/26/02
Posts: 736
Loc: the land of excess
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: What determines mushroom size? [Re: mycofile]
    #1969806 - 10/01/03 05:19 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

thats what im talkin about!!!

i wish had my digi cam up and running...
substrate and depth can make some amazing fruits
ive had 1/8ths that consisted of 2 mushrooms!!

and potencey is off the charts!
every person that has ever tried them has commented on how strong they were.

(i suspect that has alot to do with the drying method as well, most uneducated mushroom pickers dont dry their mushrooms properly, so you are getting alot of water weight rather than product..)

[hyp]

BTW nice grows mycofile
bulk runs kick ass, its a little bit more work than PF, but the yeilds are fuckin amazing...


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Offlinetreyute
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Registered: 03/05/03
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Re: What determines mushroom size? [Re: hyper_dermic]
    #1971557 - 10/02/03 02:18 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hyper_dermic said:

(i suspect that has alot to do with the drying method as well, most uneducated mushroom pickers dont dry their mushrooms properly, so you are getting alot of water weight rather than product..)





if shrooms are not dried completely you'll have mush in two days sealed in a bag at room temparature.....most uneducated mushroom pickers will learn pretty soon that a shroom must be 100% dry before bagging or mushy will turn to mush mush


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