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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: joemolloy]
    #14398645 -

@Austrip and Noobie:  I agree with both of you but we part ways when speculating about the prevalence of psychedelic drug users graduating into harder drugs.  I'm a pessimist by nature, but also a realist.  What percentage of psychedelic enthusiasts eventually move on to bigger and badder drugs?  What is the percentage in Other Drugs Discussion?  We may disagree with our guesses at these numbers, but I hold that they are uncomfortably high. 

Austrip, I would suspect most meth users (including you?) had previous experience with psychedelics before the meth.  Why'd they move onto meth?  Psychedelics didn't do it for them anymore.  Yeah, I know the Gateway Theory gets short shrift around here for the usual reasons, but it rings true for many, especially for the poly drug users who eventually fuck their lives up.  Drug use is typically a stairway for many and they keep climbing up until they get too high.

There will be some on this forum who follow the path I outlined above.  There are many who already have and there are some who will not, but to deny that this happens or minimize it is the same dishonest propaganda type strategy that we criticize and despise programs like DARE for using.

Oh, it usually makes people on shroomery feel better when I say, "Hey guys, this is just my opinion."  It's less threatening that way, because everyone has an opinion, right?  All opinions are equal, right?  Not really though.  Some are better than others.  Some are threatening to deeply held beliefs, especially if they are too damn logical or rational and hit a little too close to home.  Especially if they come from someone who has been there and done that and then called bullshit on the whole damn thing.

Yeah, its like I left the church and am still an extremist, fanatical bigmouth except I am for the other side.  But damn, is it me or I am one insightful prick?


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Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: joemolloy]
    #14398801 -

The debate regarding spirituality and psychedelics is one that cannot be resolved. However, I feel compelled to toss in my two cents.

When I visited the "Avenue of the Giants" an ancient forest located in Northern California where some of the tallest trees in the world grow, I was taken back by something I read while touring the park. A display board explained how "the organic matter of dead trees is recycled and becomes the matter of new trees." In this simple message I saw spirituality.

The forest was talking to me and it was a spiritual message about the evolution and cycle of life. So, I ask "Does everyone who visits the forest come away with spiritual insights?"

"No."

I saw spirituality where perhaps another person would see just a forest.

Point being, many people will visit the forest, some people will report having received a spiritual message, while others will report nothing.

Truth exists is the mind of the believer. Your belief in the psychedelic experience activates the spirit of the plant or substance that you take. You have the power to determine what it is.


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Re: The Case Against the Spirit World Model of Psychedelic Action [Re: FleshCap]
    #14399209 -

FleshCap said:
The debate regarding spirituality and psychedelics is one that cannot be resolved. However, I feel compelled to toss in my two cents.

When I visited the "Avenue of the Giants" an ancient forest located in Northern California where some of the tallest trees in the world grow, I was taken back by something I read while touring the park. A display board explained how "the organic matter of dead trees is recycled and becomes the matter of new trees." In this simple message I saw spirituality.

The forest was talking to me and it was a spiritual message about the evolution and cycle of life. So, I ask "Does everyone who visits the forest come away with spiritual insights?"

"No."

I saw spirituality where perhaps another person would see just a forest.

Point being, many people will visit the forest, some people will report having received a spiritual message, while others will report nothing.

Truth exists is the mind of the believer. Your belief in the psychedelic experience activates the spirit of the plant or substance that you take. You have the power to determine what it is.


:thumbup: I agree 100%. Experiences are all around us, whether they be psychedelic or just magical moments in everyday life or even tragedies, and they can be as spiritual or dull as the person experiencing them chooses them to be.

I think psychedelic users graduating to harder drugs is more of the issue of their individual choice and what they're seeking those drugs to provide for them rather than the effects of the spirituality that the drugs seem to give. True, there is danger in abusing these substances and possible (well, likely) insanity lurks in dwelling on these states for extended periods of time. But whoever said that in order to appreciate the spiritual aspects of these experiences you have to indulge in them every single weekend?

If mind-altering chemicals are the only ways a person can have a spiritual experience, perhaps that person needs to rethink how spiritual he really is. The most dangerous aspect about these drugs are the users taking them.


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:pinkshroom:  :regularshroom:  :mushroomgrow: :greenshroom: :stinkyshroom: :scaryshroom: :mushdance: :dancingshroom: :cubie:  :mushroom2:  :supershroom:      :muahaha:

<<<<<<<<---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->>>>>>>>

A game without challenges is boring. It is possible to live a happy optimistic life without being in denial about all the shit that goes on all around.
You just gotta get up and dance with the fire instead of moping about it. Be thankful for your problems.
Without them, your life would be a fucking bore.
But don't make it all about the problems. There are magnificent wonders in this world worth living for :wink:

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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