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InvisibleAsante
Mage
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,061
Re: youth and psychedelics [Re: sancho]
    #3118161 - 09/10/04 11:09 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

This thread needs an asshole!
And, by God, I WILL FILL THAT VOID! I WILL BE THAT ASSHOLE! :evil:


19/20 people on this site haven't got a flying clue about how intense Psychedelics really are. Psychedelics are literally like icebergs: the overwhelming bulk of it lies perfectly hidden.

You may pop a single shroom-stem your first time around, munch it down with cola and laugh your ass off watching the Ninja Turtles pull their antics with a mild giggly feeling like you had one beer..
You have taken the Red Pill for life. You will never be the same again

In scifi you got black holes. When you fly your lil spaceship you suddenly feel a tiny bump. So? Aren't those Turtleboys funny? They sure are, but you just passed the Schwartzschild Radius, the Point of No Return. No matter how you spent that time and whether you trip later on or not: Things are set in motion, you took the Red Pill and that is that.
No matter how mild or silly your trip is: you won't be the same.
Ever.

If you pursue the Art of Tripping and trip every x months or so you may never be aware of it but two important things happen.
1..you activate your unresolved/repressed material.
2..your life takes direction to face you with these challenges.

If I make somebody insecure with this they better damn well feel insecure because major psychedelics stand apart from any other psychoactive drug.

Many people take big doses of mushrooms and feel well. If they take half of that they feel less well then they would feel when sober.
How come?

Because they flee the true psychedelic effects by taking so much that they are skyflying so strongly that those tiny nagging feelings of low doses are all obliterated, bypassed and not dealt with. At a low dose you see that it sucks and you see it is you who does the sucking and that you should work at your psychedelic growth rather then throw blotter-acid confetti at it.
For many middle-aged trippers it is still partytime like they were teens because they became masters of avoidance.

half a gram of mushrooms usually isnt very 'trippy'
but it is always highly psychedelic for months to come

If you don't see the difference you should quit shrooming until you figure it out.
'trippy' is a drug effect. 'psychedelic' is your 24/7 life between sessions.

The natural rhythm of tripping is that there are series of "bad" (=hard) trips and series of good trips. Growth goes in spurts and that includes times that it hurts.
Growth is becoming who you are and it is never staying who you were.
Toil and suffering people, and a willingness to suffer in bitter agony to reach higher ground. I just been through such a period. There will be another and it will be harder and I welcome it.

I have taken 12 grams when I was not yet a Man but I now take 0.5-1gr and get more out of it then 9/10 skyfliers do who sometimes munch their towering doses of shrooms at the mall.


Well, that was rant, now as for reason:
You won't be the same again, ever, once you tripped. You need much preparation because you have to aquire the self-respectful mentality needed to be able to truely choose for the Red Pill.

Ayahuasca Churches sometimes use the age of 14 as a measure of when some are old enough to imbide. Perhaps this is so, but a kid has a developing brain and psychology. This kid will develop into an adult who has taken the Red Pill. Even a simple mushroom stem with only modest or slight effects will change somebody's entire life.
This can be for the better or for the worse.

Personally I would say become a true adult first, regardless of age, before you imbide, and use the time before that to educate yourself.

A true adult knows what he/she lives for and is prepared to suffer direly to become who they are.
It's what makes you respected as a "Warrior" in Tribal cultures and what gets you treated like shit in Western culture.. eeehmm.. behind your back :wink:

A fourteen-year-old can be a Warrior by the self-trained strength of his Spirit but many middle-aged people have not even had the notion of that strength in their entire life.
Both are equally valuable but in Spirit the Warrior is best suited for mushrooms as judged by wisdom and the willingness to endure hardships to reach a higher goal.
As it takes both Wisdom and Gonads I would say between 20-50 years old might be best to start for most.


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Offlinethe free thinker
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Registered: 12/17/02
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Re: youth and psychedelics [Re: Asante]
    #3119001 - 09/10/04 02:40 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Even a simple mushroom stem with only modest or slight effects will change somebody's entire life.




I'm sorry but that is total complete bullshit.  So you're saying that no matter WHO it is, even the SLIGHTEST trip will change them forever? That just isnt true.  I know way way way too many people who have tripped once or twice and they were like "Yeah... I was so fucked up... it was good fun but im done with it"

Are you kidding yourself man?  Sorry, but not EVERYONE in the world is like us.  Take a look at my signature.  I made that sig after my first ever trip, like 4 years ago.  My friends were all just talking about how messed they were, but to me it was something much, much, much more.  I could see something divine... and I knew I had found my path.  When the trip ended, I knew my journey had only begun.  Clever eh?  :grin:

Anyway, Wiccan Seeker that was a good post but it's just not entirely true.  You sound a bit like Timothy Leary...

And I stick by what I said.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with youth using psychedelics.  If anything, the shroomery community should be happy about this.  The future trippers have to start sometime right?  So whats wrong with getting a headstart?  I wouldn't take back shit if I could go back 4 years.  I would have tripped more.  :mushroom2:


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InvisibleAsante
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Posts: 87,061
Re: youth and psychedelics [Re: the free thinker]
    #3119454 - 09/10/04 04:53 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I'm sorry but that is total complete bullshit. So you're saying that no matter WHO it is, even the SLIGHTEST trip will change them forever? That just isnt true. I know way way way too many people who have tripped once or twice and they were like "Yeah... I was so fucked up... it was good fun but im done with it"

Are you kidding yourself man?




Alas you didnt see my point. With "changed" I mean their psychological constellation gets a sharp tug into another direction then before and even a slight trip with no interesting or even entertainment value will do that.. just like one snort of cocaine initiates changes in your brain that are lasting.

Once 4-HO-DMT gets in your brain to an extent that it is active you might not have tripped but you have been psychedelicized in your life. This awakens things within you that last. Theres no lab proof but I hear the music. Most trippers get slight sensory disturbances every so often if they keep tripping. It might be a shimmer once in a blue moon or it might be lifelong fullblown hallucinations as in severe HPPD. So that means repeated exposures can cause lifelong changes. And since no brain damage is established as of yet, it likely means that mushrooms, one slight dose, give a change that will not be reversed.

Not for the better, not for the worse, any or none. A neutral subtle change that will influence your psychology, not necessarily braindamage but perhaps opening up new combinations of brain use that did not actively exist before: perhaps like how your first swimming lesson will give you a bit of "swimming conscousness" that will not wear off for life.

I also didnt say young people shouldnt trip but that it is likely that most should not trip. That the most important factor is True Adultness. (independant of bodily age)

Many who jump in the waters of Lysergia lake learn to swim or flee it with no harm done. But next to nobody is introduced to psychedelics in the proper way.

Me neither, but can you name anybody you personally know who studied psychedelics to the ROOT for over five years without imbiding, when they were just a phonecall away.

Most kids start on mushrooms and LSD to get fucked up. Deliberately using a substance they think will harm their brain just to laugh harder at the TV set, because sundays suck. Crack? Party drug! Swallow five hits of unknown strength blotter with booze and an ecstasy tablet. 99% of cannabis users *smoke* their weed for the quick cancer fix instead of eating it; they poison themselves with smoke. Using more drugs in a night then i do in a year.

Research chemical? So what its a paint ingredient! Lets drink some and get it in Schedule I !
Higher, higher because life sucks major ass man!


Thats what you see all the time. Next to nobody is looking for a Path, though some might find it. But once they take that mushroom, or that LSD, they are changed. It cost me years to discover that and then years to accept it. If you feel your first hit (or if its active) the switch is flipped, and you have swam the lake of Lysergia, even if you merely stuck a toe in it to check the temperature.

In some things Timothy Leary was a fool. Just one of his stunts was ordering 100 grams of pure LSD, at that time 5 million tabs of Delysid 25 mcg, and ordering 15kg of Psilocybin, at the time 7.5 million tabs Indocybin 2mg, both together the equivalent of twenty-five metric tons of fresh mushrooms which were grown in subkilo batches and all this in an unusual shady transaction he could not pay nor show the required licenses for, from one of the most respected establishment-pharmaceutical companies of the world, while current theory said that LSD made you psychotic for a few hours. This is one of the moves which got our beloved compounds scheduled and the genuine research nuked so early.

But in other things Timothy Leary was very right: that it held unbelievable promise to change the people and the world and that Set and Setting were of utmost importance.

Today the Set is "slapping that brain-bitch silly" unprepared and unguided and without any expectations but destructive recreation.
The Setting is six grams of mushrooms for your first trip (may contain 75mg psilocybin = 5-10 full psychoanalytic therapeutic doses or 38 Sandoz-pills when Psilocybin was stil a research pharmaceutical) taken at the MALL with friends you never had a conversations with that approached the dept of Donnatello and Raphael arguing over a pizza.
You should try that in a Tribe..

Most turn out OK and some get on the Path to their higher self while others get vietnam-veteran crazies (PTSD) from a bad trip that was built on shit to begin with.

Very few get the Initiation they are entitled to. It's sad, but its the way of the world.

There is nothing wrong with reasonably young people taking mushrooms, but very much things are extremely wrong with the way in which they do it. That they tend to come out fine only shows the benevolence of the mushroom in most cases.


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Invisiblejux
I'm better thanan STD!

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 924
Re: youth and psychedelics [Re: sancho]
    #3120672 - 09/10/04 10:11 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

The problem with everyone's arguements against tripping at a young seems to be that people assume that tripping is harmful and wrong. In my not so humble opinion, there is absolutely nothing wrong with altering one's consciousness.
Let's look at mushrooms; the psilocybin is basically the fungi version of our serotonin (I know I'm oversimplifying, that isn't the point). So, basically, you experience an excess of 'serotonin'. Now, this is not the way in which the human mind normally functions, but this does NOT make it bad by definition.
If a person desires to change the way in which their minds function, then why is that bad? I do not accept the "growing minds" as a reason. Most of the "growth" that occurs during the teen years can be expressed as either a hormonal change, or pruning. Pruning is a long process that occurs about twice in your lifetime, wherein the brain expunges nueral connections that are no longer desirable or needed. There is no data indicating hormonal problems caused by mushroom consumption during the teen years. Likewise, there has been no data to suggest that mushrooms interfere in a negative fashion with how one's mind operates during their normal sober activity.
If one learns anything from tripping, then all these imaginary risks people seem to fear in youth taking a psychedelic is easily justifiable. And who here has not learned something valuable while tripping?

For clarification, I am not condoning the use of psychedelics by the youth or any person for that matter. I am, however, stating that the discovery of psychedelics by an entrepid youth is not a negative thing and should not be viewed as such. Allow people to think when they wish to think, and how they want to think. Anything less is a form of thought control. There is no magical age when it suddenly becomes "OK", there is no magical age when all these imaginary fears disappear. Not when you are 18, not when you are 21, never. It appears that many of you are afraid that a psychedelic experience will change a person's life forever, and that this change is bad. The reality is that at any moment of any day your entire world can change, or something may forever and profoundly change you, drug or not. Shall we not allow our children to read books that offer a completely different mindset than our usual cultural norms for fear that the new insights may forever change him? I should hope not. I have a question for all those who would not want youths taking psychedelic; are you opposed to them taking stimulants such as caffeine (which are both mind altering and addictive)?

Thank you for your time, there are beverages and snacks in the reception area...


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OfflineTrippinNinjaBuddha
ShroominSamurai
Registered: 04/11/04
Posts: 279
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: youth and psychedelics [Re: sancho]
    #3125677 - 09/12/04 11:06 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Some thoughts of my own.

I first took mushrooms when I was a few months shy of 16. I took an eighth, and so did a few friends. I was at the stage in my life when I still hadn't figured out exactly who I was or what I was doing. 'Shrooms really forced me to look at who I was, and how I acted, and made me change my life. I restructured my relationships in a way that was healthier. I am much happier than I was before I shroomed. I don't attribute this solely to shrooms, -I meditate and do yoga as well- but I think they played a huge part in it.


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Jumped in a river, what did I see?
Black eyed angels swimming with me
Moon full of stars and astral cars, all the figures I used to see
All my lovers were there with me
All my past and all my futures
We went to heaven in a little rowboat
There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt

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Offlinetelamahooka
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Registered: 01/13/04
Posts: 76
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
Re: youth and psychedelics [Re: sancho]
    #3126562 - 09/12/04 05:14 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

The first time I ever shroomed was at 15 I took an eigth one night, and another the next day. Both experiences were great, but people need to be educated and hear other peoples experiences before they jump right into it. For the next month or so I was a braindead zombie most of the time and had a total ego loss, which I think a lot of people might not take the right way. In my opinion if you are young and want to shroom, learn about it, then go for it. With a lot of people I know shrooms might have kept them from going to non psychedelics like coke, meth, fucked up stuff that will make you a slave to the drug eventually, shrooms might have made them think that those drugs are only good for the dealers who make all the money from your addiction. I have so many good shrooming memories, i think "young" people should be more open to trying them rather than other non-psychedelics. :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:


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"He who makes a beast of himself relieves the pain of being a man"-doctor johnson

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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Re: youth and psychedelics [Re: PDU]
    #3129199 - 09/13/04 11:33 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PDU said:
Quote:

People who are open-minded and are willing to accept the yet unknown and unexplainable mysteries of the world are those who can handle a life changing and life enhancing experience with phsychedelics. 




Bang on! People come to this place at different ages. That is the determining factor in my mind. I suppose this comes with maturity. 





I think i can safely conclude this thread by saying that these two dudes got it right on.
Shrooms are found by people that are curious of new experiences. These people have to know that they are ready to see things unknown to them.
Usually this search for new experiences doesn't come until the teen years,  so i don't think anyone should worry about 14 year old kids taking shrooms.
As long as they find shrooms on their own, as long as shrooms show up on their path of life without anyone forcing them down their throat, any age is alright. And when i say any age, i imply that kids not ready for the experience will most probably not take them.

I first took them a little earlier than my 17 years of age, and i definitely wasn't ready for what was to come, which isn't negative at all! ;i experienced unity of the universe and i re-discovered my body. it changed my perception of the world and my life, and it brought me to the shroomery because i was curious as to what the secret of shrooms were and i wanted to  communicate with people that knew what i was talking about. i mean talk about "unity of the universe" to average joe... :smirk:, you get my point.

Anyways, i think CURIOSITY is a key point. It can lead ANYONE anywhere.
to me, curiosity means leaving what you already "know" behind, and seeing what is new ahead.


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Offlinerdnp2035
Stranger

Registered: 03/08/04
Posts: 408
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
Re: youth and psychedelics [Re: sancho]
    #3129303 - 09/13/04 11:54 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I have mixed feelings about the idea. Part of me thinks that under the right conditions there is not reason why a child shouldn't feel perfectly at home with psychedelics. However..I think these conditions might be rather rare in our culture.
Personally I didn't trip unil I was 18, almost 19. And I think this worked well for me. Having had the life experiences I had before hand made it make more sense, I have more tools of my own to apply this new super tool to. For example, I had been playing guitar for years before I tripped on it, this enabled me to have have a hyper rocking trip when I combined the two...being able to take decent skills and put them on warp drive.
At the same time, in a healthy world, if a kid grew up learning how to do things on psychedelics, they would be on warp drive from the start. Probably being able to go way deeper by the time they are 30 than most people who start their mind expansion when they are 20. But the massive variables involved skewed any straight forward yes or no response to the question should kids trip or not.

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