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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....


Registered: 09/07/04
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Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.?
#3152269 - 09/18/04 09:08 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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It was my main intent to "see something" when I started my explorations into psychedelics after reading all about them, but to my dismay, I have never "seen" anything.... Took LSD once, and it was very intense and very awsome on the creative aspect (see my creativity post), but never saw anything that wasn't already there....
I have taken a few higher doses of shoomz (5-6gr) before, but still did not ever see anything "appear" before my eyes.... The most visual effects I have EVER gotten were wavyness/shifting/warping in what I was looking at, the "breathing effect", but nothing has ever just shown up in front of my eyes like the stories I have read....
There was one time that I mixed shroomz & LSA (very low doses), and it was the closest that I have gotten to having a hallucination, but when I explain you will see that it was just a modification in perception of what was actually already there.... After the effects of these substances took hold, everything I looked at had an almost "Matrix" effect.... EVERYTHING I looked at was made up of 0's and 1's...! It was increadible...! I don't like the lingering effects of LSA in the days after an experience, and will prolly not do it again anytime soon.... But it was really neat to perceive things in this way....
I have done Salvia Divinorum twice, and upon self analyzation of the experience, I would say that it was not a hallucination that I was seeing.... I can say that I "saw something", but I cannot say (myself) that it was a hallucination.... It seems like Salvia makes you have a vivid dream while you are also seeing the world as it is thru your eyes.... It is like both worlds are alternating cards in a deck of playing cards standing vertically, and your mind gets confused as to which one is actually happening.... I remember laughing because I did not have the self abillity to seperate the two worlds, nor concentrate on just one of them, and I just gave up in the confusion...! My only reaction was to just laugh at the state of mind that this ally brings to the table....!
Now some of you must be thinking that I have no imagination, but quite to the contrary...! My job and my hobbies are ALL creative activities.... I am an Engineer, a digital abstract artist, and an improv musician / song writer.... Although I have found psychedelics to be a very creative tool, I have never seen anything - which was the original intent of my exploration....
So it makes me wonder if hallucinations have anything to do with ones own imagination at all.... In thinking about it subjectively, I have come to the conclusion on my own that it HAS to be something directly linked to a person's own personal chemical make-up.... It has been clearly established that everybody has VERY different effects/tolerances/experiences on the very same substances.... I also can confidently say that I don't think that I could ever have a bad trip (unless my "setting" was not appropriate - which I would avoid).... I hope that I am never prooven wrong, but my mind thinks very analytically, and I know that I am in COMPLETE control in my influence of thoughts when I am tripping.... I do not have a very big ego, I don't think that I am better than anyone else, and I am generally a very positive person.... Maybe the right combination to not have a bad trip in my chemical make-up/personallity, but I still don't see any real hallucinations on psychedelics....
Any insights or thoughts....?
ChoW~ 4 NoW~
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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3152305 - 09/18/04 09:20 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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The only thing I can say, is that I've dosed with one friend of mine numerous, numerous times. He never trips. We split a ten strip and I was having the time of my life, he felt nothing. Nothing. Not even after pot.
I've seen him eat a quarter of shrooms while I ate an eighth (which blew my socks off) and not even get the trip-voice, anything.
He thought salvia was fake. He smoked it stoned, smoked it tripping, smoked it sober.. nada. I dosed another friend of mine who was very sensitive to it, and friend A thought it was just us tricking him.
That's the only person I know of that can't/doesn't trip. I don't know if its psychological or physiological in either of your cases, but I guess it does happen to some people.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!


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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3152333 - 09/18/04 09:33 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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The first couple times I did acid, I didn't get any visuals, and I didn't get any from salvia either.
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  "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Heffy
BrauMeister


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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3152336 - 09/18/04 09:33 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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What you have described here (phasing, mushroom patterns, matrixness, etc) are all hallucinations. Taking a drug such as LSD or mushrooms will most likely not create the visuals it sounds like you are looking for. The hallucinations created by a mushroom trip are not going to make you see "things appear". Many people seem to have this idea that after taking mushrooms/LSD people will start turning into animals, and all kinds of nonexistant things will maifest themselves before you. I have never found this to be the case with any kind of drug.
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Worf
Lt. Commander

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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3152373 - 09/18/04 09:47 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ususally the hallucinations you see are just changes in your perception. When I took salvia, everything turned into faces. Nothing actually looked different, it was just my perception of them.
First time I did mushrooms I had the most intense trip but no visuals. Second time there were very distinct visuals. Of the best ways to get them is to look at yourself in the mirror. But really, hallucinations aren't the best point of psychedelics in the first place.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....


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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: Adden]
#3152446 - 09/18/04 10:06 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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s2dope: Don't get me wrong, I do trip - euphoria, confidence, amazement of the simple things, provoking thoughts on topics you know nothing about, ideas, etc...! Sometimes I trip my balls off, but I just don't "see" things as described by others....
Heffy: I must have had the wrong idea on what a hallucination actually is based on some of the stories I have encountered in my life.... I just looked up the word "Hallucination" in the dictionary, and it says "to see something that does not exist".... What I have seen in my hallucinations has always been a modification of what does exist.... Which I guess would be a hallucination because the modification does not really exist.... LoL, does that make any sence...?
Anyways, I remember a friend telling me a story: "I was eating a bowl of cerial while tripping, and a Cherio jumped out of my bowl, and slowly ran across the table with legs, arms and all - like a little living Cherio"...! Or people saying that they see vines growing up the wall, or other things that appear - ones that are not just modifications of what is already there.... These are the type of experiences that I was hoping for.... I am by no means dissappointed by my experiences in ANY way, I just thought that something was just not effecting me the way it effects others....
Maybe there are two classes of hallucinations...? Some that see "modification hallucinations", and some see "created hallucinations".... I dunno~.... Maybe we could do a poll to see what different people actually see, and see what catagory they fall into...? Maybe you and I fall into the "Modified Hallucination" effect of psychedelics because of our body chemistry...? I will be interested to see what this post finds in other's views of what they "See"...!
ChoW~ 4 NoW~
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!


Registered: 10/10/02
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3152470 - 09/18/04 10:12 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Let me give you examples of hallucinations I've experienced, so you can see if you've experienced them: --walls moving --objects "breathing" --trees melting --patterns appearing in things --distorted proportions --cracks in the sidewalk growing wider Also, next time close your eyes and see what kind of patterns appear then. CEV's are fucking awesome!
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  "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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ChiefThunderbong
Inhale to theChief


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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3152492 - 09/18/04 10:17 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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I had a similiar problem, it took me roughly ten trips before I really got to where I wanted. My suggestion would be to trip alone, with good trance music, in the dark, with lots of marijuana to smoke. Oh yeah, and be sure to close your eyes. 
I just finished reading your whole post, and wanted to add that I also used to say the same thing about bad trips. The night I spoke of already, where I "got what I wanted" was also coincidently the night I changed my mind about that. It was a low dose, and I was not expecting much. It was an extremely intense experience, one that still lingers in my mind. Now I'm sure your breakthrough won't be anything like mine, so don't let me scare you or anything. Just remember to take it as it comes, and enjoy it for what it is.
Quote:
In thinking about it subjectively, I have come to the conclusion on my own that it HAS to be something directly linked to a person's own personal chemical make-up.... It has been clearly established that everybody has VERY different effects/tolerances/experiences on the very same substances.... I also can confidently say that I don't think that I could ever have a bad trip (unless my "setting" was not appropriate - which I would avoid).... I hope that I am never prooven wrong, but my mind thinks very analytically, and I know that I am in COMPLETE control in my influence of thoughts when I am tripping.... I do not have a very big ego, I don't think that I am better than anyone else, and I am generally a very positive person.... Maybe the right combination to not have a bad trip in my chemical make-up/personallity, but I still don't see any real hallucinations on psychedelics....
Any insights or thoughts....?
Your thinking about it much too hard. Your waiting to see god, and getting dissapointed when you don't. Your not in complete control of anything when your tripping, I'm sure you'll realize that one day. Stop worrying so much about what your are or are not seeing, and start paying attention to your feelings during a trip. Also take the time to notice the things around you. Your surroundings, although they may be real and not "hallucinations" generally seem a bit more beautiful when your pupils are wide. And when you feel like your at the point where you can't get and higher, when you can't possibly take another hit off the pipe....turn off the lights, lay down, close your eyes, and let the music take you away.
-------------------- Yeah spinnin' around again yea caught in a tailspin
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ChiefThunderbong
Inhale to theChief


Registered: 10/18/02
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3152517 - 09/18/04 10:23 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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I should really read the whole thread before posting, I just read your second post. As for the two classes of hallucinations - I'd say at least 90% of what you will ever experience is gonna be modified hallucinations, or closed eye visuals. I think a lot of people exaggerate and tell "crazy stories" about when they were tripping. Now I'm not calling everyone a liar, and I'm not saying that there is no such thing as a completely self-created hallucination.....because there certainly is. But they are few and far between when compared to the modified type.
-------------------- Yeah spinnin' around again yea caught in a tailspin
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Infrared
sleeping


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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3152527 - 09/18/04 10:26 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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smoke some N,N DMT
-------------------- When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....


Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3152530 - 09/18/04 10:26 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ya~ know, in the interpretation of what the actual vague definition is for the word "Hallucination", I could say that everybody hallucinates, every single night when they dream.... You are very clearly seeing and participating in something that does not exist whilest in a dream.... Would you call that a CEV...? So the act of sleeping itself and the altered state of mind it brings could be classified as a hallucinogen...? Sleeping does open different parts of your mind I am sure by the mechanics of different chemicals produced by your body - just like psychedelics.... Interesting twist on the topic, but food for thought....
I wonder if an arguement in court would hold any water in bringing up this obvious comparison....? "Your honor, I use psychedelics so that I can have waking dreams just like YOU do while you are sleeping - I just do so by a different means than you do..."
Incidentally, I very seldom ever remember my dreams, nor consiously know that they are happening.... Making me wonder more about the possibillity of different catagories of hallucinations....?
::::pondering::::
ChoW~, and thank you all for your input...!
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....


Registered: 09/07/04
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3152540 - 09/18/04 10:28 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Cripes...! Everytime I type a new comment, there are 2-3 more before I get done typing....!
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....


Registered: 09/07/04
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: ChiefThunderbong]
#3152630 - 09/18/04 10:54 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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CheifThunderBong: I think that I have only "tried" to see something, a "created hallucination" the first few times I tripped.... I was not dissappointed by any means that I did not "see" what I was "expecting", and it is not really what I am looking for now when I do trip.... I do very much go with the flow, and love the way it opens your mind to the beauty in some of the simplest things - the connectedness of everything - and all of the other wonderfull things mentioned so far in this quickly growing post.... It was more my intention to question what other people percieve as a true hallucination thru each's own individual eyes out of curiousity.... I am thinking about it now just for analyzational reasons, sober.... I don't do this while I trip.... And yes, the first time I did a high dose (5-6gr) I was wondering if it was possible to see God.... I was not "expecting" to, nor was I looking for him, just wondered if it was possible.... I don't think about anything "on purpose" while tripping, I wait to see where my mind will take me next - and enjoy what the experience gives me, usually insight on stuff I have never thought about....
I have never shroomed out and laid down in a dark room with my eyes closed before.... I am always afraid that I will fall asleep and wake up the next day pissed off that I missed my trip...! Maybe I will have to try this sometime to see if I am able to see CEVs....
ChoW~
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ChiefThunderbong
Inhale to theChief


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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3152640 - 09/18/04 10:58 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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I promise you won't fall asleep.
-------------------- Yeah spinnin' around again yea caught in a tailspin
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gdman
badger, badger,badger...


Registered: 12/10/02
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3152659 - 09/18/04 11:06 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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it's imposible to sleep while tripping, you can't do it, not a chance, just the nature of the drug.
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Got a question about a substance? Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the mushroom experience? The Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before. I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights. - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess "I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve
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spock
journeyman
Registered: 08/26/03
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: gdman]
#3152740 - 09/18/04 11:28 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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rare but not imposible. i've wasted trips by getting too drunk and falling asleep. but sometimes it's hard to get (or at least feel) drunk when tripping.
Edited by spock (09/18/04 11:30 PM)
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....


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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: ChiefThunderbong]
#3153066 - 09/19/04 09:03 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thinking back (at this moment), I do remember one time that I had the possibility of having a bad trip, and I say THE POSSIBILITY that it COULD have gone in a bad direction.... I felt a very uncomfortable fear arising in myself, but I changed it's course VERY quickly and had a very profound night of thought....
For the record, I almost always trip alone.... I had once gotten a hold of a small amount of an Amazonian strain of Pcilo's - just one mushroom.... It was EXTREMELY STRONG, and was given a warning by my friend "do not take more than 1gr - they are very strong".... The dried shroom was about 4" tall and the stem was about as big around as a drinking straw.... Right in the middle of the stem, it fattened out like a C-size battery was snugly fit inside the stem.... I remember asking "What did ya~ do, feed this thing a battery to make it have more energy...!?" LoL The cap was about 3" in a perfect circle, and shinny dried wrinkly top.... It looked like a museum specimen of a perfectly mature freakish mushroom, like what you would see pictured in a book.... I have never seen anything like it since, I wish I had taken a picture of it.....
He was right, I took 1gr.... It was crunchy - even the perfectly preserved straight gills were crunchy like thin glass would be.... I just crunched them a few time in my mouth and quickly swallowed the smaller chunks with a gulp of pop because it was extremely bitter.... So, they were not in my mouth very long at all.... The effects hit bigtime within 30min, and I was tripping balls....! It was almost an uncomfortable body load and I had about one year of experience in doing shroomz by this time with only one high dose.... I still had the TV on, and I sat down to chill for a bit while I tried to gather my thoughts.... I looked at the TV..... It was a movie scene where two parents were arguing loudly at each other in the presence of a child.... They zoomed in on one of the parents, and her face was morphed in a way that made her look evil.... Her mouth and eyes were just evil.... I don't know if you have ever seen "The Devils Advocate", but it was much like that in effect, only the faces never looked normal - just evil.... And it was only the faces of the adults.... When they zoomed in on the child, he looked normal.... I thought to myself, "What a weird movie...!" (I am not to the scary part yet....)
I don't usually care to watch TV when I trip, and quickly got bored of this weird movie, and changed the channel.... To my surprise, all of the adult's faces were morphed to look evil....! That is when the butterflys/fear hit my stomach.... I changed thru a bunch of channels, and it was all very consistent.... The children, and cartoons were not effected what so ever, and in evaluating the room I was in for a few minutes, nothing else seemed to be effected by any "modification hallucinations".... No breathing walls, no wavy water effect to anything.... The fear grew stronger as I pondered why I was seeing this.... The shroomz I got were evil....! Or they allowed me to see what was innocent, and what was not....!!! I turned off the TV.... And sat in amazement to what I had just seen and what it might mean....
Many thoughts went thru my mind as I sat and pondered why this trip was so different.... I thought about the nature of the strain coming from the Amazon.... Life there is survival of the fittest and very competitive at that - you have to be strong to survive there, and that must be why this shroom is so strong.... At that moment I "grounded" myself, and said, "It is the mushrooms, there is nothing to be afraid of...." The fear went away quickly.... The Amazonian strain must have gone thru a lot of suffering to survive as a species to have become so strong thru adaptation.... Made me start thinking about the beginning of man, and an idea/theory popped into my head as to why everybody is so different in chemical make-up..... (In retrospect, I am glad that I did not think to look in the mirror to see if I looked evil....!!!!) LoL
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Since this post got so long, I will say that from here on down has nothing to do with the original topic of this post, it is the insight that came to me as I sat and pondered after having a negative 10min in an otherwise very good strong trip.... -------------------------------------------------------------- Now I am gonna~ write out some of the ideas/theories that came to me that night.... I think that it is important for you to know that I do not read a lot, and I only know the basics of evolution and it's counterdiction to religion and the Scriptures - too which I also need to dedicate more time in learning/understanding.... I was very bad in school when it came to history and government.... If this is an idea that someone else has already written about, it would be purely coincidental that I had these thoughts - unknowingly and independently without outside insight.... And I am not denying religion - I believe in God, these were just thoughts from my trip that night....
The evolution of man based on the insights from one of my trips...: What if in the beginning of man's evolution on this planet, it started out with "small tribes" of people spread out all over the different lands (however they came to be there).... This is before transportation/tools/language or any other of the things we learned and developed with 4% of our brains (is 4% right?).... As communication and intelligence developed differently for each tribe, they would colonize an area and live off of the land and the food available that was souly indigenous to the area.... Each "tribe" of people would naturally (over much much time) adapt and develop by way of the chemicals in the foods that they ate.... They would build certain immunities and common mutations to what they were exposed to thru time as they learned what was food and what was poizon.... That which does not kill you makes you stronger.... Human lifespan was very short back then, and I would have to think that bloodlines had to be in their "purest" form (which I think would allow for inbreeding without mutations...?)
As these separate "tribes" that survived grew into colonies and later separate nations of people, it all makes sense to me in reasoning the fact that there are such a diverse range of: cultures/traditions, languages, skin colors, religions, intelligence levels, types of foods, styles of traditional music, morals, facial/body structures, strengths, weaknesses, governments, currencies, etc. etc, in this world.... It would also explain why certain ethnic groups of people are more prone to getting specific diseases - not having built immunities/genetic mutations to foods or other toxins outside of their original indigenous roots....
In this melting pot we call America, all of the bloodlines are getting way more mixed up, and it is not always the strong genes of parents that get passed on to offspring.... Maybe this would explain why there are certain diseases/illnesses/allergies/deficiencies that are popping up that may have never existed before...? Maybe they were already there before, but modern medicine just allows us to do tests now and learn/document about what is wrong.... Back in the days of medical ignorance, if there was an illness or bodily problem, and bed rest couldn't help, you were pretty much a goner~....! If a child was born of mutation or deficiency, it simply died and the bad genes were never passed on.... With modern medicine today, if a child is born with mutation or deficiency, it will most likely be able to be treated and kept alive to pass on the mutation - weather it be from bad genes, or mutations from exposure to toxic man-made pollution or nonfatal poizons....
Why do we refer to people's ethnicity as "race"...? Is it because it is one of the inbred "knowledges" that is handed down in time from our God...? Maybe the world's land is spread out and evenly dotted/planted with "tribes" of people to colonize a given area (like a bacteria).... Is it an experimental race to see which tribe/ethnicity would dominate the world in numbers...? If so, Columbus really screwed up the outcome with his little boat ride...!!! LoL I don't think that it could have been foreseen that we would have melded together and mutated to a level of intelligence that could lead to one person alone deciding to destroy the whole human race.... Or maybe it is not a conscious decision at all that will destroy our species.... Maybe "the end" will be the act of opening a subconscious door by an ignorant human that sucks us all in like a black hole, and marches our "race" right to Judgment Day.... (and when I say "ignorant", I mean lack of knowing better...)
Ponder for a moment the end of Shulgin's explanation of a +4 experience....:
"It is a state of bliss, a participation mystique, a connectedness with both the interior and exterior universes, which has come about after the ingestion of a psychedelic drug, but which is not necessarily repeatable with a subsequent ingestion of that same drug. If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end of, the human experiment." - a la Alexander Shulgin's "Rating Scale".... ****Note - this is the last half of his explanation - not the whole thing....****
It is kinda~ interesting to me that he used the words "Human Experiment".... But then again, everything he does in his life and work would be seen as an experiment thru his eyes...! LoL I think Shulgin is trying to unlock different parts of his mind with psychedelics in his search for a chemical solution of a mental evolution (from what very little I know about him - PIHKAL & TIHKAL are on their way via mail as I type this).... What if he is right, but off a little bit....? What if it just takes one certain oblivious person with the right gene make-up to use a certain chemical to open a door and start a chain reaction that cannot be stopped...? I am quite sure it would have to be a combination of chemicals to achieve this, God would have HAD to put a combination lock on this secret - just to make it humorous...!!! LoL If we are all "one" and everything is indeed connected thru life, then we indeed would be in trouble as a species, as that opened door could lead straight to hell....!? I would definitely call that a bad trip....!!
------------------------------------------------------------------ Sorry for going on so long, I am tired of typing...! I have never told anyone about the insights/questions I pondered that night as a result of my shroom trip.... They are not my beliefs as a human.... I don't think that an insignificant person like myself would ever be given the "right" answers to life, evolution, and it's demise in one night all from 1gr of shroomz...! Besides, if an "ultimate evolution of the human mind" was ever discovered and achieved simply thru a substance, the US government would hunt you down, kill you, and destroy any evidence of it's existence.... Experiencing perfect bliss even if just for a moment is already deemed a criminal act....! Unless, it is HIGHLY marketable/TAXABLE - like tobacco and alcohol.... Money = Power = Corruption = More Power = More Money.... A pyramid scheme with bloody money as it's foundation.... Ironic that the greed for money is the root of all evil...! We "the people" in order to form a more perfect union will decide for you what you can and cannot do.... Please sign here, pay your "dues", take your number, enjoy your freedom, and move along - we will be closely watching you for your own protection.... (Damn, I should put that last line in a song...!)
ChoW~ 4 NoW~ >^;;^<
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Iamthewalrus
every evening Idied and everynight I wasreborn


Registered: 03/24/04
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: Worf]
#3153909 - 09/19/04 08:34 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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I get what your saying about perception...but when you take enough it goes beyond that...when those images start dancing around or shifting and morphing out of the wall or whatever...thats more than perception
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Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop


Registered: 08/20/04
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: ChiefThunderbong]
#3154308 - 09/19/04 10:02 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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I always get fucking incredible visuals, I never exaggerate, I just always get crazy visuals, sometimes so real, I play with them, touch them, ext. I think a lot of it depends on your imagination, I have a great imagination so..........
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baraka



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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3154681 - 09/19/04 11:33 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have only a few time got complete opene eye hullicinations. Most are like watching the tree blow in the wind and it looks crazy. Or wood grain flowing like water... ect..
Few heav heavy trips ive had patterns just enwrap all my vision. Everything i looked at had some sort of diamond chainlink fence pattern on top of it. Diamonds/chainlink fence is a reucurring visual i get on most my trips.
-------------------- This is the only time I really feel alive.
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MuShi_KiNg
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: baraka]
#3155085 - 09/20/04 09:29 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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try some diphenhydramine it is otc !!!! It really weird seeing people on it talking to freinds answeing the dorr ect... make sure u got a sitter some cough sypurps here in the uk contain both diphenhydramine and dxm crazy combo take care !!!!!!!!!
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angryjslice
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3155090 - 09/20/04 09:31 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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let go of your grip of reality.
once you learn to do that, you can peak so hard off of 3 grams of mushrooms that you cant see the world around you.
once you blast off once, its real easy to get back there from then on.
i suggest this trip... mushrooms, or a high dose of quality acid, take them in a dark room and put on the orb live '93. wait about 2 hours or so in the dark, when you feel like your tripping sack, then turn on the lights. that'll really get ya movin. HAHA. thats how i broke through my first time. 5 hits of the best acid i had ever seen. turned on the lights and looking down at myself i had 8 arms, and my hands had eyes on them, the room was a cascading waterfall of spirals of every imaginable color. each board on my floor flashed between different colors.
thats a trip. let go, let it happen, let it own your reality.
~JSlice~
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KOPELANDIAA
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: angryjslice]
#3155151 - 09/20/04 10:01 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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i had "hallucinations" with the eyes opened too, so it must depend on people maybe... For example, i could see inside my body, people's faces turning in monkey's faces, a girl crying (she was not in "reality) rainbow tears, my lighter illuminating a big concert hall, apparitions, etc...
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Fade_To_Black
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: Adden]
#3156389 - 09/20/04 02:57 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
s2dope said: The only thing I can say, is that I've dosed with one friend of mine numerous, numerous times. He never trips. We split a ten strip and I was having the time of my life, he felt nothing. Nothing. Not even after pot.
I've seen him eat a quarter of shrooms while I ate an eighth (which blew my socks off) and not even get the trip-voice, anything.
He thought salvia was fake. He smoked it stoned, smoked it tripping, smoked it sober.. nada. I dosed another friend of mine who was very sensitive to it, and friend A thought it was just us tricking him.
That's the only person I know of that can't/doesn't trip. I don't know if its psychological or physiological in either of your cases, but I guess it does happen to some people.
that makes me sad.
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Ginseng1
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: ChiefThunderbong]
#3156721 - 09/20/04 04:17 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ChiefThunderbong said: I promise you won't fall asleep.
my friend fell asleep for a good hour and a half.
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Ginseng1
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: angryjslice]
#3156733 - 09/20/04 04:20 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
angryjslice said: let go of your grip of reality.
once you learn to do that, you can peak so hard off of 3 grams of mushrooms that you cant see the world around you.
once you blast off once, its real easy to get back there from then on.
i suggest this trip... mushrooms, or a high dose of quality acid, take them in a dark room and put on the orb live '93. wait about 2 hours or so in the dark, when you feel like your tripping sack, then turn on the lights. that'll really get ya movin. HAHA. thats how i broke through my first time. 5 hits of the best acid i had ever seen. turned on the lights and looking down at myself i had 8 arms, and my hands had eyes on them, the room was a cascading waterfall of spirals of every imaginable color. each board on my floor flashed between different colors.
thats a trip. let go, let it happen, let it own your reality.
~JSlice~
You must make a very good setting decision... letting grip of reality could result in some crazy shit happening if you arent in a good setting.
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Aldous
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3156836 - 09/20/04 04:46 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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I know what you're talking about. I also used to think people tend to exaggerate their trip reports, and I still think some do, but not all of them. In fact, I think tripping experiences vary extremely widely. People just aren't always talking about the same thing. Some read a wild trip report and think the experience upon which it was based must have been pretty much the same than what they experienced themselves, which may not be true. I, for instance, never had CEV's, only "mental images", like when you close your eyes and imagine something. You "see" it, but not very clearly, and you can control it completely once it's there. I have had very vivid OEV's, like those described in this thread (walls breathing, moving Aztec-like patterns on objects, faces, etc.). I've had several high dose ayahuasca trips, and even there, I had only one very short-lived vision, and a poor one at that. While ayahuasca, which contains DMT, is considered one of the most visionary drugs.
But it may depend on many things. Agreed, everyone is different, but one also can evolve. During my latest trip (18 grams of truffles), which was in a public park, I closed my eyes a few times and found myself involved in some kind of ceremony which I didn't understand at all. I couldn't help but open my eyes every time, and I couldn't remember much of it once they were open again. I'll try to explore this further on the next time I trip, alone and in the dark. But it definitely resembled some trip reports I've read of wild adventures in people's heads, and it was the first time that happened to me. I guess it's right you have to let psychedelics completely rule your reality. At times, you may think you're there, only to discover you were on the threshold of something so much bigger. This can take years sometimes I guess.
About hallucinations: the modification in perception you're talking about is called a pseudo-hallucination. And, in fact, anything that you know isn't real is a pseudo-hallucination too, as real as it may seem. A true hallucination is something you honestly think is real, but you find out later on it wasn't, or people tell you it isn't. A true hallucination is something you mistake for reality; so it's impossible to realize on the spot that you're having one.
About dreams: you might be closer than you think. DMT is produced in the pineal gland in the brain, and is suspected to be involved in the production of dreams. Read Strassman's book about it.
Also try to read 'The Antipodes of the Mind' by Benny Shanon. It's about the effects of ayahuasca, and he makes a complete classification of what can happen during ayahuasca trips. Of course, most of it applies more or less to other substances as well.
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PhanTomCat
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: Aldous]
#3159036 - 09/21/04 05:49 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Aldous: Very perplexing response, and thank you for your insight...! I did know that DMT was already in a person's body, but I had never heard for what purpose it served us.... I do THINK I remember reading that skitzo's have a higher amount of DMT naturally in their bodies.... I might be mixing that up with another higher naturally occurring chemical in them, but right now my mind is saying that it was DMT.... Which would/could explain the nature of that beast.... I am not a big reader, but I just read "The Psychedelics Encyclopedia" cover to cover in one weekend...! I couldn't put it down...! I just got "Pharmacotheon", and it looks like a little of a harder read with all of the dates, names, and references peppering every page (and it is a MUCH thicker book).... I also have PIHKAL & TIHKAL coming in the mail soon.... I will definitely look those books up that you mentioned, I wrote them down.... (and thank you) 
Aldous, I would also like to know how/where you have come up with the cut and dry definitions of "pseudo-hallucination" and a "true hallucination".... Are you a Doctor...? The dictionary says; "Hallucination - to see something that does not exist".... You have interpreted the definition a little to give the impression that one has to "BELIEVE" that what they are seeing is real.... That adds a whole new dimension to the actual definition..... It almost sounds more like a medical interpretation of how a doctor would describe a skitzo that is actually seeing and interacting with their "TRUE Hallucinations" (as judged by an outsider's eyes).... If this was true, then people who take psychedelics never actually have "True Hallucinations".... Everybody who has taken a trip and saw "something that was not there" knew that they were on a drug to induce such a state, and would KNOW what they were seeing was not real - being aware that a drug was ingested.... UNLESS, a true psychedelic were to put you in a place of mind that would be TRULY like the mental thinking of a skitzo - unaware that a substance was ingested for the purpose of tripping.... And if you read into this a little further, you would have to conclude that a scitzofraniac(sp) would be the closest to having the mental capacity for the "ULTIMATE EVOLUTION" of the mental state - as described by Shulgin's +4 rating scale.... The only problem with that is that skitzos do not have the other symptoms occuring in a substance induced psychedelic state, in fact they feel the opposite of: "a state of bliss, a participation mystique, a connectedness with both the interior and exterior universes" (as quoted by Shulgin again).... I am pretty sure that a skitzo is not living in a state of bliss.... Or are they....? Which is starting to make it all confusing.... UNLESS, believing or not believing has nothing to do with the definition of a "True Hallucination"....
This all could open another door of thought....! (CRIPES...!) With everybody on this beautiful green earth, we ALL have very different chemistry.... Maybe there are indeed two types of hallucinations based on this very fact.... Maybe the people out there that have had the "Real or True Hallucinations" - as reported on the trip reports - have a mental chemistry that allows them to get CLOSER to the mental chemistry of a skitzo - whilest they are under the influence of a psychedelic substance.... There will never ever be a way to CLEARLY KNOW for a FACT what the differences are - until a person could tap into another's brain and experience EXACTLY what the other person is experiencing.... It would never be possible.... Too many freakin wires.....!!!! LoL (which brings to mind the movie "The Cell"...) Maybe skitzo's are constantly stuck in two different universes at the same time, much like how I would describe my Salvia Divinorum experiences....? Which would bring to mind an interesting experiment.... It would all depend on if there are any substances out there that would counter-act an induced psychedelic state...? Kanna is supposed to "abort a mushroom trip" as I remember being written about it.... I dunno~ if it actually works or not....? If it did, it would be interesting to administer some to a skitzo to see if it brought them closer to this universe....? Skitzos are the only ones that cannot discern from what is real and what is not.... But we are also on the outside looking in thru our own eyes in JUDGEMENT of what we THINK they are able to see and experience.... If a "normal" person or Doctor cannot see it, you must be crazy - END OF SUBJECT, now here is your thorazine shot... I dunno~, I am not a doctor by any means, I just don't think in the confines of a "box".... Aaaaaand, I think I need a girlfriend...!!! LoL
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Someone up earlier in this thread said to smoke DMT if I wanted to "see stuff".... I tried it once, did not break thru, and had a hard time breathing for 2 days.... Not interested in trying it again in that fashion.... But the actives in shroomz are tryptamines as well (even though they have the misguiding names of psilocy's), and it seems like the effects would be "close" to the same....? (I am sure I will get spanked for that statement..!!) What I picture from the trip reports of breaking thru on DMT is what I would perceive as to being very close to a scene in a movie called "The Lawnmower Man".... When Jobe was in the chair of the virtual reallity "learning machine", and he was injected with those psychoneutropic drugs.... All of those shifting geometric patterns flying at his head with a FLASH as they hit him, faster and faster.... It was overwhelming for him too...! LoL 
Come to think of it, "The Lawnmower Man" is really about reaching the "Ultimate Evolution", they just weren't psychedelic drugs that were used.... It even slapped the face of religion for it's cruelty to human kind..... I wonder if Alexander Shulgin has ever seen that movie....!? It would be interesting to hear what he thought about it..... 
I have read a little on the very spiritually religious and ritualistic ways that certain cultures embark into their sacred trips - something that I am pretty sure that not too many people practice in the western world - just simply out of ignorance.... I am not a very "meditative" type of person, and I am starting to wonder if that is one of the "keys" to having a true hallucination....? I am always on the go, and I have to be doing something.... If I sit still in one spot to meditate, and closing my eyes is involved, I will fall asleep....!!! I kinda~ live by: "I will have plenty of time to sleep when I am dead" motto, and sometimes only get 2-3 hours of sleep a night on a regular basis.... I usually take a 1-2 hour nap when I get home from work, but truly, I don't sleep a lot.... Coffee is my friend...! ::::throwing a shout out to Jaun Valdez:::: LoL I also really only started my discovery of shroom magic in the last 1-1/2 to 2 years, and I am thirty something..... I did have about a 2 month binge when I did them once a weekend last year, but I space them out to about once every 1-2 months now.... They are MUCH better to me when you space them out.... I see it as getting the reward of an awsome trip because I have waited so long to have it (and also prefer the full moon for some reason).... Kinda~ makes it more special.... ***To each is own, I am not judging others by my own personal choices...!!***
I think the only hallucinations I have had is what I refer to as "Modification-Hallucinations".... Faces morphing or bulging out, breathing floor or walls, staring at something and everything looks like you are looking thru a wall of water with soft shifting waves - VERY BEAUTIFUL and just plain neato~...! I have never seen ANY kind of patterns except the ONE time with LSA + shroomz that I explained earlier with the "Matrix Effect".... I missed out on the RC's that went around, but it makes me wonder if the hallucinations are different on them, and if they are more "real", or just another form of modified hallucinations (as I see them).... My strongest "intelligence" given to me in this life is creating 3Dimensional mathematics - as an engineer, and problem solving.... I literally deal with complex 2D & 3D shapes and patterns on a daily basis.... The abstract digital art I create as a hobby consist of no patterns or symmetry.... I find chaos in colors and shapes in an abstract setting to be very aesthetically pleasing to me - almost like a subconscious rebellion to my educationalized rules of order in engineering...! LoL
I am going to try (next time) what has been suggested by a few of you in this thread.... I will turn off the lights, lay in bed, and maybe put on some Enigma music thru headphones.... It is very calming music for me, (I prefer heavy metal music otherwise)..... As a cat(LoL), my curiosity is really twitching about seeing the CEV's from that type of "deadened" environment.... Logically thinking, turning off other stimuli would definitely let you focus better....
Hey, just for shits and giggles, I will post one of my pics if I can figure out how to.... They are kinda~ trippy in a way that possibly no one has ever seen, and ya'll might dig-um....? Didn't seem to find any captive audiences on EBAY.... 
Well, tired of typing.... ChoW~ >^;;^<
P.S.: If I am wrong in ANYTHING that I am saying, PLEASE correct me.... I don't know anything about mental illnesses.... I did see "A Beautiful Mind" tho~, and that is about all I know about Skitzofrania.....!!!! LoL And all the stuff I spelled wrong, yeah, I suck....! LoL

. . . Lick me, I mean CLICK me to see a larger version....! It is called: "Transcendent Kingdom?"_Study-01 A small section from one of my big pictures.... Enjoy...!
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falseaddiction
There's agoldmine up onthe mountainside

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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3159457 - 09/21/04 11:19 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you have done a lot of DXM this can make it so you cannot trip hard, if at all
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Aldous
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3160018 - 09/21/04 01:37 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
GimpyTomCat said: Aldous, I would also like to know how/where you have come up with the cut and dry definitions of "pseudo-hallucination" and a "true hallucination".... Are you a Doctor...? The dictionary says; "Hallucination - to see something that does not exist".... You have interpreted the definition a little to give the impression that one has to "BELIEVE" that what they are seeing is real....
Well, as you might guess, I didn't make it all up. I think (if I remember it all right) it comes from Shanon's book, where he makes a whole classification of ayahuasca effects. I guess he would know, since he's a cognitive psychology researcher at Jerusalem university. He himself recalls only one true hallucination, where (after an ayahuasca session) he saw a suspicious looking man walk around looking for something, and figured out later on that it couldn't have been real. Closed-eyes hallucinations are in fact 'visions', and anything you don't mistake for reality is a 'pseudo-hallucination'. It was along those lines, but look it up, it will make for an interesting read.
That's also the reason why nobody's happy with the terminology: hallucinogens are in fact NOT hallucinogenic, they are better called visionary substances.
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PhanTomCat
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: Aldous]
#3160455 - 09/21/04 03:03 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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FalseAddiction: I have never done DXM.... Dileriants and/or Dis-associatives, and the thought of swiss cheeze for a brain doesn't spark my interest.... Not that I am calling you out, just not the type of experience I am searching for....
Aldous: It all still seems very subjective (almost to a point of a stale mate).... There just seems to be too many reports for it to just be almost a myth.... Some of the smoked DMT reports of breaking thru and having interactive conversations with other beings seems to be common place.... I dunno~.... Maybe I am just a skitzo locked up somewhere having a hallucination that I am typing messages to other imaginary beings.... LoL
I wonder if a poll would clear things up - if strict guidelines were set up for the different types of hallucinations.... It might just bring more confusion to this very subjective topic....? There is know way to proove or dis-proove an experience that someone else has.... There is no right or wrong.... And there is no spoon Neo....!! Thank you for challenging me, now I need a brain relaxer for the cramp...! <EG>
ChoW~ 4 NoW~
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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Aldous
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3160901 - 09/21/04 04:24 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
GimpyTomCat said: Some of the smoked DMT reports of breaking thru and having interactive conversations with other beings seems to be common place....
I know. I've never smoked DMT, but I've read many reports. But even interacting with a machine elf doesn't necessarily mean you take it for real. You can also interact with something you know to be a (pseudo-)hallucination... or can't you? I really don't know, still waiting for my first elf...
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TitanSmoke
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: baraka]
#3160992 - 09/21/04 04:52 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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ever tried PCP?
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PhanTomCat
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: TitanSmoke]
#3163777 - 09/22/04 07:12 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have never tried PCP.... There are a small list of substances that as a young adult going thru health education in middle school, decided not to try, and have stuck by those decisions.... PCP, Herion, Cocain, and Crack are all on that list.... Not being well versed in PCP (besides the stories of people going on a psychotic rages and throwing 6 cops off of them while trying to aprehend them), I think it is classified as a dis-associative, and that doesn't spark my interest in mind expansion.... I also do very much know that the media ONLY FOCUSES on the bad things that happen from doing these types of substances....
The other 3 substances listed are classified as highly addictive, and I have chosen to not use a drug that I would have to insuflate or shoot into my bloodstream.... These are my own personal reasons, and I in no way judge others in their choices.... I have had the opportunity to do coke a few times in my life, and it just gave me the opportunity to show myself that I could hold true to the promise I made as a child.... I didn't even have to think for a second before the answer of "no thank you" was given.... The other substances listed, I have never had the opportunity to try, but would still turn them down if the situation came up....
I personally seek mind expanding experiences.... Ones that make me grow mentally as a human, and help to inspire creative outlets in my life.... I also, on the other hand, would like to try everything for myself at least once in my life...! So if a situation came up that I had a terminal illness, I might overlook my self promise to see what each experience brought from the substances on my "won't do list".... That way if I got addicted, it would be short lived - as with my body on this earth....!
ChoW~
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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PhanTomCat
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: Aldous]
#3163931 - 09/22/04 08:24 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Aldous: OK, from what we have discussed here, it clearly sounds like there are actually 3 very different kinds~ of hallucinations.... From your source(s) of info, two of them seem to be grouped in the "Psuedo-Hallucination" catagory based on "Belief" - EVEN THOUGH they are very different.... One person's definition based on his own findings and conclusions does not mean that their observations are completely correct - unless they are left unchallenged.... And other people's understanding of a subjective topic might be highly influenced by reading from a "creadible" source of a knowledged person/Doctor.... The world might still be flat to this very day if the ideas were not challenged...!
I think that the "classifications of hallucinations" need to be separated as follows....:
Group #1) Would be the "Modification Hallucinations" ie: Brighter colors, breathing walls, shimmering water effect, mosiac pattering, seeing a modified/enhanced version of what is already there....
Group #2) Would be the "Psuedo Hallucinations" ie: Someone sees and experiences objects or beings that they know are not really there, but they can still see or interact with them as if the were there....
Group #3) Would be the "True Hallucinations" ie: Seeing and experiencing an entity or environment that one TRULY BELIEVES is really there, and is happening in real life at the time.... Then later finds out that what they saw and experienced was truly not indeed there.... ----- On a sidenote, if the person having this type of hallucination were to be informed -realtime- that what they were seeing at the time was not real, then by reasoning, it would quickly be put in the "group #2" catagory....
This last "group #3" would describe a total immersion into a realm of the psychedelic explorer's mind that would not allow one to distinguish from what is real, and what is not - unknowingly.... Now if one was to believe that what they are seeing is real, I ask the question, would a group #3 "True Hallucination" experience be a state of mind closely resembling that of a skitzofranic's state of mind....? 
In my experiences, I am still stuck in the middle of group #1, and have still not seen any patterning (with just shroomz).... I will try the dark room suggestions next time.... Being a video game player, I MUST complete this level....!!!! And maybe it will help prepare me for the next level....? Only time will tell.... 
ChoW~
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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HealingVisionary
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3164151 - 09/22/04 10:15 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Who's to say what's "real" and what isn't?
Also, I have only tripped on LSA, but what my experience brought me was a profound clarity of mind and ability to think in a deductive yet incredibly creative manner. I think people's creativities manifest themselves in different ways when they are tripping (just as in reality).. I was expecting all these visuals, as described by a friend who had done LSA before, and yet, for me, the trip was purely mental. I had no alterations to perceptions whatsoever. I even listened to some good trance, and my only thought on it was, gee, this is pretty dull.. I want to go think in a quiet field somewhere. And such I did. And that, for me, is precisely what I was looking for in the experience, though I had not actually expected to find it.
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PhanTomCat
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: HealingVisionary]
#3164637 - 09/22/04 12:13 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Healing Visionary: "Who's to say what's "real" and what isn't?"
Well, there is a show called "The Real World", and funny enough, it has NOTHING to do with the real world.... It is a show that they put a bunch of people together that don't get along to make for "good TV" (for some)...! It is not "REAL", but it is because it is there....
On a serious note tho, I found the same profound effects that you had on LSA, not in visuals, but in the increadible mind clarity, and a deep feeling of connectedness with everything.... I personally don't care for LSA because it makes my next few days kinda~ fuzzy in a way.... Almost in a way the opposite of the way I feel when I am on the substance.... "By the power of three times three, make them see, make them see..."
But this is all the purpose of this topic, to find out why I have tripped many times, and have never "seen" any of the hallucinations as described by others.... Wondering what others have truly "seen" on their "visionary" journeys, and trying to create "logical" theorys/reasons for why they do, and why I don't.... I have gained incredible insight from these substances, worked out some problems in my life, and felt that wonderful connectedness with everything.... I regret nothing, and I feel that everything happens for a reason.... Life is a test.... Which opens many doors of conversation in itself....
Thanx~ for the insight thru your eyes...!
ChoW~
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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Heffy
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: MuShi_KiNg]
#3166495 - 09/22/04 07:26 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Dimenhydrinate/Diphenhydramine are not recreational by any means, but in a reasonably high does they almost always produce these "true hallucinations" (people you know talking to you and then dissapearing as if photoshopped off a piece of running film). I have been curious for a while about this aspect of these drugs, and whether or not lower but active doses of them mixed with more euphoric drugs might create very interesting and realistic visuals. An yone tried it?
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Lifenergy
Yo Mama

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 766
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3167164 - 09/22/04 09:29 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you want a "true hallucination", then you should follow the advice of some of the other responses and try diphenhydramine, or my favorite hallucinogen of this type, Datura. You must exercise extreme caution if you use Datura, as it is not hard to overdose and an OD can be fatal. So do the research! The experience is completely alien to any other trip. It takes the thin ties to reality you have when tripping and rips them to pieces. Your mind literally makes its own reality while on these, which says a lot about the fragile nature of what is commonly accepted as "real" to begin with. You want a hallucination? Manifest one. Personally, my best and most "real" visuals have always come from a combination of 1/8 of shrooms and 400 mg of mescaline sulfate. But that's me...
-------------------- Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see.
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TehKraken
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3167333 - 09/22/04 09:54 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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First 2 times I did mushrooms I did 2 grams and never got any super duper hallucination effect. The last time I did them I did 4 grams and was able to hallucinate if I closed my eyes. Eventually I would start seeing crap actually pop up in front of my eyes. The trick in my opinion is to sit down/lie down and just concentrate on the visuals, you'll get a good effect out of it. Like, next time I do them, I am for sure gonna try the new trick I learned.
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the free thinker
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: falseaddiction]
#3168542 - 09/23/04 01:48 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
falseaddiction said: If you have done a lot of DXM this can make it so you cannot trip hard, if at all
That is the biggest load of shit I have seen on shroomery in a while. I have done my fair share of DXM, and have NO problems tripping hard on various psychedelic substances.
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PhanTomCat
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: Lifenergy]
#3168812 - 09/23/04 03:14 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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sfxkill764: "try diphenhydramine, or my favorite hallucinogen of this type, Datura."
I have read enough about the tropanes & DXM to know that I have no desire to try them.... Not interested in deleriants, or dis-associatives.... Too much lose of mental "control/capacity".... I will say that one time, and one time only, I downed a bottle of Robo, and I did not like it at all.... It was such a deadening feeling, and I couldn't put more than 2 words together in my head before I forgot what the first word was.... It seemed like about a week before the whole "deadening" effect was completely gone.... Not interested in visiting that place again, or anything like it.... They are not what I consider to be psychedelics, or mind expanding/creative boosters.... Too much of a "dark" feeling for me....
If "Diphenhydramine" is classed in these same catagories, I would not be interested.... I have never read up on this particular one....
I am not necessarily looking for a "True Hallucination".... I have access shroomz, and will try the dark room and trippy music.... I would be happy enough to see CEV's if my mind allows it.... If not, I will just have to live with shroomz giving me the creative twitch and beautiful insight that it shares with me - without the visuals.... I can live with that...! Thanx~ for all your input, but no deleriants, or dis-associatives for me.... 
ChoW~
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Aldous
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3170626 - 09/23/04 03:47 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
GimpyTomCat said: This last "group #3" would describe a total immersion into a realm of the psychedelic explorer's mind that would not allow one to distinguish from what is real, and what is not - unknowingly.... Now if one was to believe that what they are seeing is real, I ask the question, would a group #3 "True Hallucination" experience be a state of mind closely resembling that of a skitzofranic's state of mind....? 
The schizophrenic's scary state of mind is partially due, I think, to lack of control and security. Just an example: when taking mushrooms, one of the most basic advices in case the trip starts going bad is to just keep telling yourself that you took shrooms and that it's all gonna be over in a matter of hours. In my experience, you can follow this advice (most of the time) because you remember you took mushrooms. When you smoke salvia, on the other hand, the next moment you've forgotten you smoked anything at all, and hallucinations can more easily be mistaken for reality. But then, salvia doesn't last very long. Imagine you hallucinate at times but without warning. You never know how to tell truth from delusion. This must be extremely scaring, and it's called schizophrenia. Anything you hallucinate is potentially real, so it's all #3, except if you are able to remember that corn flakes do not walk and talk and play tricks on you in real reality. But you're never gonna be sure...
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PhanTomCat
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: Aldous]
#3171466 - 09/23/04 06:48 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Dammit, I had an answer all typed out, and my IExplorer fugged up and lost it all.... Grrrrrr....
Thanx~ for spelling it right, I knew I was wrong on that...! Schizophrenia.... 
OK, the Salvia experience is very drastic, and somewhat over whelming to be immediately & instantly whisked away into the foriegn depths of one's own altered mind.... It can be frightening, and for me, just "plain" confusing.... Time is altered as tho~ it seems like an eternity - even though on our physical plane, it has only been a few minutes.... Trapped in a state of mind where as you have no control of thought, or even the slightest grip on reality as we know it.... (This is what almost every human in the world seeks - if not by substances, then by "out of control" amusement rides, or by other means - "A Thrill Ride"...) It makes me wonder if it alters our nueral biochemical mechanics to mimic that of someone with a mental illness such as the schizophreniacs state of mind.... I cannot be the only one in the world who has ever questioned this idea, but maybe my infantile "un-educationalized" way of thinking on this subject is on the lines of something profound...? I doubt it.... Maybe I am over-simplifying all of this.... The world may never know...! As I am sure that someone that is qualified to answer ANY of these questions would never just find this thread by chance.... But even if they were to comment, unless they were to be able to experience exactly what a schizophreniac is experiencing, all of the answers would be subjective.... As you know, NOBODY can put into words and describe to someone else what an actual experience is.... ESPECIALLY when you are talking about a psychedelic state of mind.... There are just too many senses that cannot be defined by words.... Unless you have experienced it, you will never be able to really know what someone elses experience is like.... Even if it is the same experience, they are not the same as defined by our own very unique perceptions....
The mind is the most complex biochemical electric machine known to exist - as we know.... Intersting enough, we all have one.... And we use a VERY small percentage of it at that....
It is very interesting the effects of LSD, and how it actually works - or how they don't know it to work.... Taken from Pharmacotheon: "Pharmacological studies have shown that little of an injected dose of LSD actually reaches the brain of experimental animals, and the tissue concentrations reach a maximum level within 10-15 minutes of injection, and rapidly subside thereafter.... ***The drug is almost completely eliminated from the body before the peak effects commence,*** suggesting that it acts as some sort of catalyst, inducing the neurochemical changes which subsequently result in the visionary experience..." - Hofmann 1968 - What does "Almost" mean in a purely scientific realm...????
This theory/statement would suggest that we already have the chemicals in our minds/bodies to embark on such a journey without the use of a substance such as LSD.... Maybe as the humanimal mind evolves, we will have the knowledge and internal means of altering our own neuralbiochemical changes -at will- to produce our own visionary experiences without the use of "substances" produced by the alkoloids in plants and their derivatives.... It might suggest that we already have the ability, but we just don't know how.... If a psychedelic state also inturn "seems" to slow down time, it would suggest that we would have the ability to control our own time with our minds upon the ultimate mental evolution of mankind....
I would personally be happy to use a few more %'ages of my own brain...!!! (Especially in the spelling department...!!!) LoL... And I am getting way off topic and rambling, so I will stop now becuase Survivor is on.....!
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Aldous
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3173818 - 09/24/04 05:04 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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You sure love typing...
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....


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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: Aldous]
#3173881 - 09/24/04 06:16 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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L-M-F-A-O....!!!!! Its crazy, I sit down, and all these thoughts just keep pulsing thru my head, and my fingers just keep typing...! LoL I had this whole week off from werk~, and I spent most of it here...! ::::Bowing head:::: . . . . .  I think I am addicted.....
OK, the 1st step to recovery is admitting that you have the problem.... I think I am over that part, (I secretly knew it all along)....! I think that the 2nd step is going to have to ween myself off of here to make the withdrawal less painful...
I will stop babbling my: "Three Platues to The Peak of Schizophrenia and The Delirious Dis-Associate's Shadow Stalker Re-Birth" bullshyt....!
ChoW~ >^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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nemo
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3174376 - 09/24/04 10:02 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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2 comments,......... #1. I must warn you..... never, ever say you could never have a "bad trip" because you have a strong head on your shoulders. You possibly could find yourself in a world of shit if you truly believe that. I thought the same way, and had tripped about 50 times(incredible mind blowing trips), before I realized you are not in total control of your thoughts if you own a conscienceness. Let me explain. I was on cloud nine through what I experienced from psychedelics. TOTAL optimism!!!!!! Then one day I read an article in High Times from a female author(I forget her name). She was a psychiatrist, and had studied many of years in the field of hallucinogens, back when LSD was still legal, this was in the fifties, LSD didn't become illegal until '66. Anyway she stated that no matter what, no matter how head strong you are, never imagine you could never have a bad trip, no matter how many hundreds of trips you have had with positive effects. She explained that at any given time you could experience "the dark side", it is extremely ugly, and you MUST be ready for it. I couldn't imagine what in the hell she was talking about. Well when I used to trip 2-3 times a month, and I always pushed it as far as I could get, heavy doses, mostly by myself, I remembered what I had read in that article. For all those who think life is great, and so isn't this world, well sorry to sound harsh but, that is fucking naive in the utmost extreme. There are so many rotten things that goes on in this world that we take for granted just so we can shun them out, and only take in the positive things in life to keep us happy. We only look at the good things in life and hide the bad. One must take in the bad to appreciate the good. Ying and Yang. Good and evil. Well, that was my first bad trip, on somewhere around 1200 mics of LSD. I was floored. I realized that I paid no attention to all the bad in life just to make my own life better, I realized all the things in life I had taken for granted. I was horrified and felt so much guilt and shame, just cause all the negative things in life didn't personally affect me, so i was O.K.. Ever seen someone read the newspaper from front to back and still be in a good mood. Jesus, that is so sad. All these bad things happening, and no one acknowledges them for their own relief. That one trip has left me to suffer from manic depression for the last 12 years, and I can't snap out of it. Yeah, I thought there wasn't such a thing as a bad trip either, but the last 12 years has been a solid reminder that there is. So don't push the doses, if you own a conscienceness, you'll eventually witness the dark side, be prepared. I am not trying to scare you, just forewarn you.
#2. One of the replies to your question was,....... smoke DMT. Whoever repied that is a fucking idiot. DMT is only for veterans. DO NOT SMOKE DMT UNLESS YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED A TRIP OF ABOUT 3000 MICS OF LSD AND WERE COMFORTABLE WITH IT. Sure, it only lasts about fifteen minutes, but you cam find yourself in a world of trouble real quick. I wouln't reccomend DMT to anyone, so just forget you ever even heard of it. And to whoever repied back with that comment, you need to think twice about making a suggestion like that. DMT can totally wreck someone, or maybe you don't care. Think about it..........
-------------------- ~nemo
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Aldous
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: nemo]
#3175013 - 09/24/04 01:04 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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2 replies on comment #1:
In my case it was just the opposite. I could only see negativity in the world, and I let it affect my life and my mood very much. I was not medically depressed, but I didn't see the purpose of making plans and let myself fully be happy. I tripped semi-recreationally for a long time on relatively light doses, and everything went OK. When I started to up the doses gradually, things didn't work out anymore. I didn't have bad trips, but they weren't satisfactory anymore. In fact, the higher I dosed, the less I tripped. Then I took a series of guided ayahuasca sessions, and I had a bad trip for about 15 minutes, the longest of my life. Since the session was guided, I was able to ask for help and get out of there. Retrospectively, those heavy ayahuasca trips did it for me and made me see all the joy and beauty there is to life. I'm still aware of all the ugliness, but I'm able to recognize the positive side and see it compensates for everything bad. Like you say, Yin and Yang, you can't have one without the other, and coming from where I was, I love the idea...
Quote:
That one trip has left me to suffer from manic depression for the last 12 years, and I can't snap out of it.
Sorry, but I just can't believe that the substance or the trip was responsible for it. It just revealed something that was already on your mind somewhere and that you have to work on. You probably started something there that you couldn't finish because you (understandably) don't want to go back there. Have you ever read Stan Grof or heard about transpersonal psychology? I think that could help you understand what happened to you. Twelve years is much too long to endure, you should try to seek help with someone who could really help you, a transpersonal psychologist or someone at least who practices rebirth or holotropic breathwork. No problems without solutions. I wish you the best of luck.
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Silven


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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3175195 - 09/24/04 01:39 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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GimpyTomCat: Quote:
It is very interesting the effects of LSD, and how it actually works - or how they don't know it to work.... Taken from Pharmacotheon: "Pharmacological studies have shown that little of an injected dose of LSD actually reaches the brain of experimental animals, and the tissue concentrations reach a maximum level within 10-15 minutes of injection, and rapidly subside thereafter.... ***The drug is almost completely eliminated from the body before the peak effects commence,*** suggesting that it acts as some sort of catalyst, inducing the neurochemical changes which subsequently result in the visionary experience..." - Hofmann 1968 - What does "Almost" mean in a purely scientific realm...????
I can't be EXACTLY positive, but I know that LSD and Psilocin work generally the same way, and within one (1) hour 85% of the psilocin that is in your body after eating mushrooms has been completely broken down and removed. The remaining 15% will be in your urine anywhere from 2 to 7 (exaggerated for safety) days and can be stored in body fat for a couple weeks. I imagine LSD to work in generally the same way.
-------------------- What do you bring to the table?
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....


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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: Silven]
#3178004 - 09/25/04 02:40 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silven said: GimpyTomCat: Quote:
It is very interesting the effects of LSD, and how it actually works - or how they don't know it to work.... Taken from Pharmacotheon: "Pharmacological studies have shown that little of an injected dose of LSD actually reaches the brain of experimental animals, and the tissue concentrations reach a maximum level within 10-15 minutes of injection, and rapidly subside thereafter.... ***The drug is almost completely eliminated from the body before the peak effects commence,*** suggesting that it acts as some sort of catalyst, inducing the neurochemical changes which subsequently result in the visionary experience..." - Hofmann 1968 - What does "Almost" mean in a purely scientific realm...????
I can't be EXACTLY positive, but I know that LSD and Psilocin work generally the same way, and within one (1) hour 85% of the psilocin that is in your body after eating mushrooms has been completely broken down and removed. The remaining 15% will be in your urine anywhere from 2 to 7 (exaggerated for safety) days and can be stored in body fat for a couple weeks. I imagine LSD to work in generally the same way.
I am not sure how much but when you eat shroomz, doesn't your stomach destroy some of the shroom'z active Tryptamine Alkaloids...? Wouldn't it go something like: 1)some of it get oxidized and destroyed by MonoAmineOxydase(sp)...? 2)some would turn into the HCL salt...? 3)some of the rest actually passes into your blood...?
Somehow I do know that some of the actives of shroomz get destroyed because otherwise MAOI's wouldn't work.... I just don't know the %'s of how they break down....
Does anyone know the chemistry of how shroomz break down in yer~ tummy...? 
ChoW~
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seatrip
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3178375 - 09/25/04 08:31 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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cool thread i used to drink so much blue ring tea it would make me drunk like and stumble when walking besides regular visuals i see solid ones but could tell its fake usually smooth looking but the weird thing to me was physical trips like feeling a object pass through you haveing your legs melt together and others it feels so real its hard to get out and focus on something else again its uncomfortable but ok in the end. ps try not to do to much, but its like when i first got to drunk and thought ill never do this again now after many times i sometimes still think ill never get this drunk again lol!i wonder if any one else knows more about feeling visuals or gets it.
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kontron
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3178377 - 09/25/04 08:31 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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one of my dealers says he can not get visuals from shrooms. he said he just gets an annoying body high, no matter how much he has taken. he claims that he has never had any visual effects or mind altering effects, just a body high like a low dose of he he said. i guess it all comes down to the person though. i get off with shrooms no problem.
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Hendostan


Registered: 07/18/04
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3180067 - 09/25/04 06:48 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Maybe this is unusual, but I never get closed eye visuals. That is one of the most common effects of psychadelics, so I'm told. Every time I trip, I close my eyes to see what everyone is talking about, and nothing happens. When I open my eyes though, I see patterns in everything, colors pulsate and change, people's eyes drift apart and together, solid objects bend, circular objects start spiraling, and if I direct my finger through the air in front of me, it looks like a liquid trail following the path, kinda like if you traced a design on the surface of smooth water. I love every second of it! The open eye visuals are amazing, but if I close my eyes, everything is gone...I consider this strange, but when it comes to hallucinogenics, what is strange anyway? It's also really fun to take bong hits and watch the patterns the smoke makes when you blow it out...very entertaining. Peace!
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KushMurderMystery
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#23433898 - 07/12/16 02:10 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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It vastly depends on the quality and type of whatever you have. Ppl don't realize there are even variations in lsd crystals. I've had some lsd (i use tester kits to make sure everything is correct) that was crazy visuals. Like woah wtf. Couchlock. I've also had some(the more generic common gdf fluff) that has great visuals at upwards of 10 or 15 doses but most ppl can't handle the mental effects that high up. Although my brother gets insane visuals from that stuff too so it is dependant on each person. And shrooms vary insanly.I've had fungus where no matter how much I ate I didn't see shit. Then there were these ones.... I flew through a portal in my couch and flew through a rainbow world. Was amazing. Also have been to Narnia on some other ones. This kinda shit is on more than 7g or candy flippin I also had shrooms that had visuals but not as intense but me and my friend thought we were Scooby and shaggy and our other buddy who was sober became fred If you really want visuals though The yellow "jungle spice" dmt is crazy. Will knock you on your ass
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Trypto-Fan
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: KushMurderMystery]
#23434059 - 07/12/16 05:11 AM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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openmind
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: KushMurderMystery]
#23435034 - 07/12/16 01:59 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
KushMurderMystery said: It vastly depends on the quality and type of whatever you have. Ppl don't realize there are even variations in lsd crystals. I've had some lsd (i use tester kits to make sure everything is correct) that was crazy visuals. Like woah wtf. Couchlock. I've also had some(the more generic common gdf fluff) that has great visuals at upwards of 10 or 15 doses but most ppl can't handle the mental effects that high up. Although my brother gets insane visuals from that stuff too so it is dependant on each person......
The last post in this thread was almost 12 years ago...
....and LSD is LSD, the whole thing about different crystal types catalyzing slightly different effects/trips/ or body loads is totally a myth. "GDF Fluff" is just a sales pitch, and there is no "GD" fam spreading doses these days....LSD is LSD, doesn't matter if someone calls it fluff, or needlepoint, or silver, or lavender, it's all the same. Some doses might be dosed heavier or weaker than others, that's about it .
-OM
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cube talk
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: openmind]
#23435270 - 07/12/16 03:37 PM (7 years, 6 months ago) |
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I tripped with a friend once and sitting in his dark room watching the television we both saw the words that were written on the tv come right off the tv to the sides of it
we both jumped up and pointed at it so we clearly both saw the exact same hallucination
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