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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.?
    #3152269 - 09/18/04 11:08 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

It was my main intent to "see something" when I started my explorations into psychedelics after reading all about them, but to my dismay, I have never "seen" anything.... Took LSD once, and it was very intense and very awsome on the creative aspect (see my creativity post), but never saw anything that wasn't already there....

I have taken a few higher doses of shoomz (5-6gr) before, but still did not ever see anything "appear" before my eyes.... The most visual effects I have EVER gotten were wavyness/shifting/warping in what I was looking at, the "breathing effect", but nothing has ever just shown up in front of my eyes like the stories I have read....

There was one time that I mixed shroomz & LSA (very low doses), and it was the closest that I have gotten to having a hallucination, but when I explain you will see that it was just a modification in perception of what was actually already there.... After the effects of these substances took hold, everything I looked at had an almost "Matrix" effect.... EVERYTHING I looked at was made up of 0's and 1's...! It was increadible...! I don't like the lingering effects of LSA in the days after an experience, and will prolly not do it again anytime soon.... But it was really neat to perceive things in this way....

I have done Salvia Divinorum twice, and upon self analyzation of the experience, I would say that it was not a hallucination that I was seeing.... I can say that I "saw something", but I cannot say (myself) that it was a hallucination.... It seems like Salvia makes you have a vivid dream while you are also seeing the world as it is thru your eyes.... It is like both worlds are alternating cards in a deck of playing cards standing vertically, and your mind gets confused as to which one is actually happening.... I remember laughing because I did not have the self abillity to seperate the two worlds, nor concentrate on just one of them, and I just gave up in the confusion...! My only reaction was to just laugh at the state of mind that this ally brings to the table....!

Now some of you must be thinking that I have no imagination, but quite to the contrary...! My job and my hobbies are ALL creative activities.... I am an Engineer, a digital abstract artist, and an improv musician / song writer.... Although I have found psychedelics to be a very creative tool, I have never seen anything - which was the original intent of my exploration....

So it makes me wonder if hallucinations have anything to do with ones own imagination at all.... In thinking about it subjectively, I have come to the conclusion on my own that it HAS to be something directly linked to a person's own personal chemical make-up.... It has been clearly established that everybody has VERY different effects/tolerances/experiences on the very same substances.... I also can confidently say that I don't think that I could ever have a bad trip (unless my "setting" was not appropriate - which I would avoid).... I hope that I am never prooven wrong, but my mind thinks very analytically, and I know that I am in COMPLETE control in my influence of thoughts when I am tripping.... I do not have a very big ego, I don't think that I am better than anyone else, and I am generally a very positive person.... Maybe the right combination to not have a bad trip in my chemical make-up/personallity, but I still don't see any real hallucinations on psychedelics....

Any insights or thoughts....?

ChoW~ 4 NoW~


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InvisibleAdden
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3152305 - 09/18/04 11:20 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The only thing I can say, is that I've dosed with one friend of mine numerous, numerous times. He never trips. We split a ten strip and I was having the time of my life, he felt nothing. Nothing. Not even after pot.

I've seen him eat a quarter of shrooms while I ate an eighth (which blew my socks off) and not even get the trip-voice, anything.

He thought salvia was fake. He smoked it stoned, smoked it tripping, smoked it sober.. nada. I dosed another friend of mine who was very sensitive to it, and friend A thought it was just us tricking him.

That's the only person I know of that can't/doesn't trip. I don't know if its psychological or physiological in either of your cases, but I guess it does happen to some people.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3152333 - 09/18/04 11:33 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The first couple times I did acid, I didn't get any visuals, and I didn't get any from salvia either.


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3152336 - 09/18/04 11:33 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

What you have described here (phasing, mushroom patterns, matrixness, etc) are all hallucinations. Taking a drug such as LSD or mushrooms will most likely not create the visuals it sounds like you are looking for. The hallucinations created by a mushroom trip are not going to make you see "things appear". Many people seem to have this idea that after taking mushrooms/LSD people will start turning into animals, and all kinds of nonexistant things will maifest themselves before you. I have never found this to be the case with any kind of drug.


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OfflineWorf
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3152373 - 09/18/04 11:47 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Ususally the hallucinations you see are just changes in your perception. When I took salvia, everything turned into faces. Nothing actually looked different, it was just my perception of them.

First time I did mushrooms I had the most intense trip but no visuals. Second time there were very distinct visuals. Of the best ways to get them is to look at yourself in the mirror. But really, hallucinations aren't the best point of psychedelics in the first place.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: Adden]
    #3152446 - 09/19/04 12:06 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

s2dope:
Don't get me wrong, I do trip - euphoria, confidence, amazement of the simple things, provoking thoughts on topics you know nothing about, ideas, etc...! Sometimes I trip my balls off, but I just don't "see" things as described by others....

Heffy:
I must have had the wrong idea on what a hallucination actually is based on some of the stories I have encountered in my life.... I just looked up the word "Hallucination" in the dictionary, and it says "to see something that does not exist".... What I have seen in my hallucinations has always been a modification of what does exist.... Which I guess would be a hallucination because the modification does not really exist.... LoL, does that make any sence...?

Anyways, I remember a friend telling me a story: "I was eating a bowl of cerial while tripping, and a Cherio jumped out of my bowl, and slowly ran across the table with legs, arms and all - like a little living Cherio"...! Or people saying that they see vines growing up the wall, or other things that appear - ones that are not just modifications of what is already there.... These are the type of experiences that I was hoping for.... I am by no means dissappointed by my experiences in ANY way, I just thought that something was just not effecting me the way it effects others....

Maybe there are two classes of hallucinations...? Some that see "modification hallucinations", and some see "created hallucinations".... I dunno~.... Maybe we could do a poll to see what different people actually see, and see what catagory they fall into...? Maybe you and I fall into the "Modified Hallucination" effect of psychedelics because of our body chemistry...? I will be interested to see what this post finds in other's views of what they "See"...!

ChoW~ 4 NoW~


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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3152470 - 09/19/04 12:12 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Let me give you examples of hallucinations I've experienced, so you can see if you've experienced them:

--walls moving
--objects "breathing"
--trees melting
--patterns appearing in things
--distorted proportions
--cracks in the sidewalk growing wider

Also, next time close your eyes and see what kind of patterns appear then. CEV's are fucking awesome!


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OfflineChiefThunderbong
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3152492 - 09/19/04 12:17 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I had a similiar problem, it took me roughly ten trips before I really got to where I wanted. My suggestion would be to trip alone, with good trance music, in the dark, with lots of marijuana to smoke. Oh yeah, and be sure to close your eyes.  :wink: :mushroom2:

I just finished reading your whole post, and wanted to add that I also used to say the same thing about bad trips. The night I spoke of already, where I "got what I wanted" was also coincidently the night I changed my mind about that. It was a low dose, and I was not expecting much. It was an extremely intense experience, one that still lingers in my mind. Now I'm sure your breakthrough won't be anything like mine, so don't let me scare you or anything. Just remember to take it as it comes, and enjoy it for what it is.

Quote:

In thinking about it subjectively, I have come to the conclusion on my own that it HAS to be something directly linked to a person's own personal chemical make-up.... It has been clearly established that everybody has VERY different effects/tolerances/experiences on the very same substances.... I also can confidently say that I don't think that I could ever have a bad trip (unless my "setting" was not appropriate - which I would avoid).... I hope that I am never prooven wrong, but my mind thinks very analytically, and I know that I am in COMPLETE control in my influence of thoughts when I am tripping.... I do not have a very big ego, I don't think that I am better than anyone else, and I am generally a very positive person.... Maybe the right combination to not have a bad trip in my chemical make-up/personallity, but I still don't see any real hallucinations on psychedelics....

Any insights or thoughts....?


 

Your thinking about it much too hard. Your waiting to see god, and getting dissapointed when you don't. Your not in complete control of anything when your tripping, I'm sure you'll realize that one day. Stop worrying so much about what your are or are not seeing, and start paying attention to your feelings during a trip. Also take the time to notice the things around you. Your surroundings, although they may be real and not "hallucinations" generally seem a bit more beautiful when your pupils are wide. And when you feel like your at the point where you can't get and higher, when you can't possibly take another hit off the pipe....turn off the lights, lay down, close your eyes, and let the music take you away.


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OfflineChiefThunderbong
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3152517 - 09/19/04 12:23 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I should really read the whole thread before posting, I just read your second post. As for the two classes of hallucinations - I'd say at least 90% of what you will ever experience is gonna be modified hallucinations, or closed eye visuals. I think a lot of people exaggerate and tell "crazy stories" about when they were tripping. Now I'm not calling everyone a liar, and I'm not saying that there is no such thing as a completely self-created hallucination.....because there certainly is. But they are few and far between when compared to the modified type.


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OfflineInfrared
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3152527 - 09/19/04 12:26 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

smoke some N,N DMT


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3152530 - 09/19/04 12:26 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Ya~ know, in the interpretation of what the actual vague definition is for the word "Hallucination", I could say that everybody hallucinates, every single night when they dream.... You are very clearly seeing and participating in something that does not exist whilest in a dream.... Would you call that a CEV...? So the act of sleeping itself and the altered state of mind it brings could be classified as a hallucinogen...? Sleeping does open different parts of your mind I am sure by the mechanics of different chemicals produced by your body - just like psychedelics.... Interesting twist on the topic, but food for thought....

I wonder if an arguement in court would hold any water in bringing up this obvious comparison....? "Your honor, I use psychedelics so that I can have waking dreams just like YOU do while you are sleeping - I just do so by a different means than you do..."

Incidentally, I very seldom ever remember my dreams, nor consiously know that they are happening.... Making me wonder more about the possibillity of different catagories of hallucinations....?

::::pondering::::

ChoW~, and thank you all for your input...!


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3152540 - 09/19/04 12:28 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Cripes...! Everytime I type a new comment, there are 2-3 more before I get done typing....!


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: ChiefThunderbong]
    #3152630 - 09/19/04 12:54 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

CheifThunderBong:
I think that I have only "tried" to see something, a "created hallucination" the first few times I tripped.... I was not dissappointed by any means that I did not "see" what I was "expecting", and it is not really what I am looking for now when I do trip.... I do very much go with the flow, and love the way it opens your mind to the beauty in some of the simplest things - the connectedness of everything - and all of the other wonderfull things mentioned so far in this quickly growing post.... It was more my intention to question what other people percieve as a true hallucination thru each's own individual eyes out of curiousity.... I am thinking about it now just for analyzational reasons, sober.... I don't do this while I trip.... And yes, the first time I did a high dose (5-6gr) I was wondering if it was possible to see God.... I was not "expecting" to, nor was I looking for him, just wondered if it was possible.... I don't think about anything "on purpose" while tripping, I wait to see where my mind will take me next - and enjoy what the experience gives me, usually insight on stuff I have never thought about....

I have never shroomed out and laid down in a dark room with my eyes closed before.... I am always afraid that I will fall asleep and wake up the next day pissed off that I missed my trip...! Maybe I will have to try this sometime to see if I am able to see CEVs....

ChoW~


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OfflineChiefThunderbong
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3152640 - 09/19/04 12:58 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I promise you won't fall asleep.


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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3152659 - 09/19/04 01:06 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

it's imposible to sleep while tripping, you can't do it, not a chance, just the nature of the drug.


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Invisiblespock
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: gdman]
    #3152740 - 09/19/04 01:28 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

rare but not imposible.
i've wasted trips by getting too drunk and falling asleep.
but sometimes it's hard to get (or at least feel) drunk when tripping.


Edited by spock (09/19/04 01:30 AM)


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: ChiefThunderbong]
    #3153066 - 09/19/04 11:03 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Thinking back (at this moment), I do remember one time that I had the possibility of having a bad trip, and I say THE POSSIBILITY that it COULD have gone in a bad direction....  I felt a very uncomfortable fear arising in myself, but I changed it's course VERY quickly and had a very profound night of thought.... 

For the record, I almost always trip alone....  I had once gotten a hold of a small amount of an Amazonian strain of Pcilo's - just one mushroom....  It was EXTREMELY STRONG, and was given a warning by my friend "do not take more than 1gr - they are very strong"....  The dried shroom was about 4" tall and the stem was about as big around as a drinking straw....  Right in the middle of the stem, it fattened out like a C-size battery was snugly fit inside the stem....  I remember asking "What did ya~ do, feed this thing a battery to make it have more energy...!?"  LoL  The cap was about 3" in a perfect circle, and shinny dried wrinkly top....  It looked like a museum specimen of a perfectly mature freakish mushroom, like what you would see pictured in a book....  I have never seen anything like it since, I wish I had taken a picture of it.....    :frown: 

He was right, I took 1gr....  It was crunchy - even the perfectly preserved straight gills were crunchy like thin glass would be....  I just crunched them a few time in my mouth and quickly swallowed the smaller chunks with a gulp of pop because it was extremely bitter....  So, they were not in my mouth very long at all....    The effects hit bigtime within 30min, and I was tripping balls....!  It was almost an uncomfortable body load and I had about one year of experience in doing shroomz by this time with only one high dose....  I still had the TV on, and I sat down to chill for a bit while I tried to gather my thoughts....  I looked at the TV.....  It was a movie scene where two parents were arguing loudly at each other in the presence of a child....  They zoomed in on one of the parents, and her face was morphed in a way that made her look evil....  Her mouth and eyes were just evil....  I don't know if you have ever seen "The Devils Advocate", but it was much like that in effect, only the faces never looked normal - just evil....  And it was only the faces of the adults....  When they zoomed in on the child, he looked normal....  I thought to myself, "What a weird movie...!"    (I am not to the scary part yet....) 

I don't usually care to watch TV when I trip, and quickly got bored of this weird movie, and changed the channel....  To my surprise, all of the adult's faces were morphed to look evil....!    That is when the butterflys/fear hit my stomach....  I changed thru a bunch of channels, and it was all very consistent....  The children, and cartoons were not effected what so ever, and in evaluating the room I was in for a few minutes, nothing else seemed to be effected by any "modification hallucinations"....  No breathing walls, no wavy water effect to anything....  The fear grew stronger as I pondered why I was seeing this....  The shroomz I got were evil....!  Or they allowed me to see what was innocent, and what was not....!!!    I turned off the TV....  And sat in amazement to what I had just seen and what it might mean....

Many thoughts went thru my mind as I sat and pondered why this trip was so different....  I thought about the nature of the strain coming from the Amazon....  Life there is survival of the fittest and very competitive at that - you have to be strong to survive there, and that must be why this shroom is so strong....  At that moment I "grounded" myself, and said, "It is the mushrooms, there is nothing to be afraid of...."  The fear went away quickly....  The Amazonian strain must have gone thru a lot of suffering to survive as a species to have become so strong thru adaptation....  Made me start thinking about the beginning of man, and an idea/theory popped into my head as to why everybody is so different in chemical make-up.....  (In retrospect, I am glad that I did not think to look in the mirror to see if I looked evil....!!!!)  LoL

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Since this post got so long, I will say that from here on down has nothing to do with the original topic of this post, it is the insight that came to me as I sat and pondered after having a negative 10min in an otherwise very good strong trip....
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Now I am gonna~ write out some of the ideas/theories that came to me that night....  I think that it is important for you to know that I do not read a lot, and I only know the basics of evolution and it's counterdiction to religion and the Scriptures - too which I also need to dedicate more time in learning/understanding....  I was very bad in school when it came to history and government....  If this is an idea that someone else has already written about, it would be purely coincidental that I had these thoughts - unknowingly and independently without outside insight....    And I am not denying religion - I believe in God, these were just thoughts from my trip that night....


The evolution of man based on the insights from one of my trips...:
What if in the beginning of man's evolution on this planet, it started out with "small tribes" of people spread out all over the different lands (however they came to be there)....  This is before transportation/tools/language or any other of the things we learned and developed with 4% of our brains (is 4% right?)....  As communication and intelligence developed differently for each tribe, they would colonize an area and live off of the land and the food available that was souly indigenous to the area....  Each "tribe" of people would naturally (over much much time) adapt and develop by way of the chemicals in the foods that they ate....  They would build certain immunities and common mutations to what they were exposed to thru time as they learned what was food and what was poizon....  That which does not kill you makes you stronger....  Human lifespan was very short back then, and I would have to think that bloodlines had to be in their "purest" form (which I think would allow for inbreeding without mutations...?) 

As these separate "tribes" that survived grew into colonies and later separate nations of people, it all makes sense to me in reasoning the fact that there are such a diverse range of: cultures/traditions, languages, skin colors, religions, intelligence levels, types of foods, styles of traditional music, morals, facial/body structures, strengths, weaknesses, governments, currencies, etc. etc, in this world....  It would also explain why certain ethnic groups of people are more prone to getting specific diseases - not having built immunities/genetic mutations to foods or other toxins outside of their original indigenous roots.... 

In this melting pot we call America, all of the bloodlines are getting way more mixed up, and it is not always the strong genes of parents that get passed on to offspring....    Maybe this would explain why there are certain diseases/illnesses/allergies/deficiencies that are popping up that may have never existed before...?  Maybe they were already there before, but modern medicine just allows us to do tests now and learn/document about what is wrong....  Back in the days of medical ignorance, if there was an illness or bodily problem, and bed rest couldn't help, you were pretty much a goner~....!  If a child was born of mutation or deficiency, it simply died and the bad genes were never passed on....    With modern medicine today, if a child is born with mutation or deficiency, it will most likely be able to be treated and kept alive to pass on the mutation - weather it be from bad genes, or mutations from exposure to toxic man-made pollution or nonfatal poizons.... 

Why do we refer to people's ethnicity as "race"...?  Is it because it is one of the inbred "knowledges" that is handed down in time from our God...?  Maybe the world's land is spread out and evenly dotted/planted with "tribes" of people to colonize a given area (like a bacteria)....  Is it an experimental race to see which tribe/ethnicity would dominate the world in numbers...?  If so, Columbus really screwed up the outcome with his little boat ride...!!!  LoL  I don't think that it could have been foreseen that we would have melded together and mutated to a level of intelligence that could lead to one person alone deciding to destroy the whole human race....  Or maybe it is not a conscious decision at all that will destroy our species....  Maybe "the end" will be the act of opening a subconscious door by an ignorant human that sucks us all in like a black hole, and marches our "race" right to Judgment Day....  (and when I say "ignorant", I mean lack of knowing better...)

Ponder for a moment the end of Shulgin's explanation of a +4 experience....:

"It is a state of bliss, a participation mystique, a connectedness with both the interior and exterior universes, which has come about after the ingestion of a psychedelic drug, but which is not necessarily repeatable with a subsequent ingestion of that same drug. If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end of, the human experiment." - a la Alexander Shulgin's "Rating Scale"....
****Note - this is the last half of his explanation - not the whole thing....****

It is kinda~ interesting to me that he used the words "Human Experiment"....  But then again, everything he does in his life and work would be seen as an experiment thru his eyes...!  LoL  I think Shulgin is trying to unlock different parts of his mind with psychedelics in his search for a chemical solution of a mental evolution (from what very little I know about him - PIHKAL & TIHKAL are on their way via mail as I type this)....  What if he is right, but off a little bit....?  What if it just takes one certain oblivious person with the right gene make-up to use a certain chemical to open a door and start a chain reaction that cannot be stopped...?  I am quite sure it would have to be a combination of chemicals to achieve this, God would have HAD to put a combination lock on this secret - just to make it humorous...!!!  LoL  If we are all "one" and everything is indeed connected thru life, then we indeed would be in trouble as a species, as that opened door could lead straight to hell....!?    I would definitely call that a bad trip....!!

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Sorry for going on so long, I am tired of typing...!    I have never told anyone about the insights/questions I pondered that night as a result of my shroom trip....  They are not my beliefs as a human....  I don't think that an insignificant person like myself would ever be given the "right" answers to life, evolution, and it's demise in one night all from 1gr of shroomz...!    Besides, if an "ultimate evolution of the human mind" was ever discovered and achieved simply thru a substance, the US government would hunt you down, kill you, and destroy any evidence of it's existence....  Experiencing perfect bliss even if just for a moment is already deemed a criminal act....!    Unless, it is HIGHLY marketable/TAXABLE - like tobacco and alcohol....  Money = Power = Corruption = More Power = More Money....  A pyramid scheme with bloody money as it's foundation....  Ironic that the greed for money is the root of all evil...!    We "the people" in order to form a more perfect union will decide for you what you can and cannot do....  Please sign here, pay your "dues", take your number, enjoy your freedom, and move along - we will be closely watching you for your own protection....  (Damn, I should put that last line in a song...!)

ChoW~ 4 NoW~
>^;;^<


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OfflineIamthewalrus
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: Worf]
    #3153909 - 09/19/04 10:34 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I get what your saying about perception...but when you take enough it goes beyond that...when those images start dancing around or shifting and morphing out of the wall or whatever...thats more than perception


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelics.? [Re: ChiefThunderbong]
    #3154308 - 09/20/04 12:02 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I always get fucking incredible visuals, I never exaggerate, I just always get crazy visuals, sometimes so real, I play with them, touch them, ext. I think a lot of it depends on your imagination, I have a great imagination so..........


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Offlinebaraka
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Re: Does anybody else NOT have hallucinations on psychedelic [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3154681 - 09/20/04 01:33 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I have only a few time got complete opene eye hullicinations. Most are like watching the tree blow in the wind and it looks crazy. Or wood grain flowing like water... ect..

Few heav heavy trips ive had patterns just enwrap all my vision. Everything i looked at had some sort of diamond chainlink fence pattern on top of it. Diamonds/chainlink fence is a reucurring visual i get on most my trips.


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This is the only time I really feel alive.


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