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OfflineDivided_Sky
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A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers
    #5009165 - 12/03/05 04:42 AM (15 years, 1 day ago)

This varies much from person to person, but I'm starting to think that for some people psychedelic drugs do the opposite of advertised. More and more I am comming across people who's ego sense, selfishness and anti-social behavior is increased by frequent and heavy trips. Instead of humbling them and making them more kind to other living beings tripping makes some megalomaniacal.

My theory is that like the old saying, what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. Some people misuse these chemicals by pushing the ego to the edge so that it becomes more fortified. If they can withstand the existential onslaught of tripping back in sober reality their sense of self is affirmed, rather than weakened. Powerful experiences make them feel stronger and eventually better than everyone else, using those experiences to differentiate themselves from other people who have not had them. They begin to seperate themselves from others that they feel are to stupid or ignorant, creating resentment and hatred. Usually this ends up as a martyr complex when their self-centered behavior and/or drug use begins drawing criticism from other people. They feel they are being persecuted for their beliefs by people who don't understand!

The experience is ultimately in the hands of the user. No chemical has the inherent power to make you a good person. Any thoughts?


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Offlinedoufus
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #5009271 - 12/03/05 05:47 AM (15 years, 1 day ago)

could be. i remember a psychiatric study of special forces bases
in vietnam. these guys would take the most insane risks so that
IF they survived their ego's sense of mastery convinced them they
were safe. i.e. if i could survive THAT i can survive anything.


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Invisibleshamantra
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: doufus]
    #5009292 - 12/03/05 06:00 AM (15 years, 1 day ago)

I dunno. I know that before i discovered psycadelics i was a hateful bastard abusin speed, i would break your foot if u owed me money and i wouldnt feel sorry for you. Psycadelics have learned me emphati and has therefor made me a better person


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InvisibleStickyWater
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: shamantra]
    #5009579 - 12/03/05 09:26 AM (15 years, 21 hours ago)

psychedelics taught me humiliation as well as showing me that there's an entirely different side to life that I often tend to overlook, as a result I do have more confidence in myself and I feel more comfortable in situations which would have made me completely withdraw myself. I could easily imagine them doing to others exactly what you described


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Offlinecarl
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #5009592 - 12/03/05 09:34 AM (15 years, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
This varies much from person to person, but I'm starting to think that for some people psychedelic drugs do the opposite of advertised. More and more I am comming across people who's ego sense, selfishness and anti-social behavior is increased by frequent and heavy trips. Instead of humbling them and making them more kind to other living beings tripping makes some megalomaniacal.

My theory is that like the old saying, what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. Some people misuse these chemicals by pushing the ego to the edge so that it becomes more fortified. If they can withstand the existential onslaught of tripping back in sober reality their sense of self is affirmed, rather than weakened. Powerful experiences make them feel stronger and eventually better than everyone else, using those experiences to differentiate themselves from other people who have not had them. They begin to seperate themselves from others that they feel are to stupid or ignorant, creating resentment and hatred. Usually this ends up as a martyr complex when their self-centered behavior and/or drug use begins drawing criticism from other people. They feel they are being persecuted for their beliefs by people who don't understand!

The experience is ultimately in the hands of the user. No chemical has the inherent power to make you a good person. Any thoughts?




That is my life story over the last year. No joke, that is scary.


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OfflineD4NK
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: carl]
    #5010138 - 12/03/05 01:48 PM (15 years, 17 hours ago)

Good post divided_sky, I have been thinking about that for some time, but haven't really had the time/motivation to put it in to words. +5 bro.


--------------------
  Moderation is key 

  "There is no god higher than truth." 



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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #5010289 - 12/03/05 02:39 PM (15 years, 16 hours ago)

Tripping helps keep me in line.  :wink: 

The drugs have no "good" or "evil" agenda.  You're right Divided, the drug experience is *totally* in the hands of the user. 

Once, I was at a social function in the forest and came across a dude tripping balls, and trying to sell mushrooms while he was mentally gone.  He had a circle of people around him, everyone just trying to buy some mushies from the guy.  I was tripping hard myself, and for some reason felt drawn to observe this guy.  I watched as his eyes flicked back and forth at light-speed, his lip curling as he said, "I'm gonna kill all you motherfuckers." 

He laughed and then grew happy again, fading into bliss while he stared at the sky.  Then, two minutes later when one of his "friends" gave him a poke, he growled, "Don't fuck with me, man, I'll fucking kill you." 

The friend was like, "No man, you don't want to do that." 

Seller dude was, "Don't test me man.  I'll fucking kill you." 

His friend told me that this guy had ingested a very high dose of shrooms, and I knew what I was looking at was the dark side of tripping.  Here was someone selling eighths for 60 bucks, tripping hard to the point where he is threatening to kill his companion. 

It was like the shrooms had done the opposite for him then what they were doing to me at the same moment.  At the time I was talking to this guy, I felt so at peace.  I had nothing but compassion for the dude, even when he ordered me to "sit my ass on the ground."  (I politely refused: "No thanks." :wink:  )

So yeah.  There's definately a dark side to tripping.


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Offlineheavensgate
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: MOTH]
    #5010331 - 12/03/05 02:47 PM (15 years, 16 hours ago)

Yea, these experiences many times do result in a person's ego becoming even stronger..."bad trips" especially can cause this, as a person will deny everything that happened and simply become more "rooted" into the ego/physical because of the experience. Which is why for people with very strong egos, it would be good for them to try a high dose...


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OfflineMushroomMonster
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: heavensgate]
    #5010821 - 12/03/05 05:23 PM (15 years, 13 hours ago)

I dunno, but I've never had an ego shattering experience. But I completely agree with heavensgate about people with strong egos needing to take a high dose. I'm not egotistical but will one day have to experience ego loss. I think ego loss would bring you back to square one and when you are in reality you are you without the ego you had if it was a large one, and if not you probably will have a deep connection with everything.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: heavensgate]
    #5010830 - 12/03/05 05:28 PM (15 years, 13 hours ago)

I almost feel that maybe your ability to improve yourself with or without drugs is karma. Some people just don't have it in the cards at times in their life to be able to use entheogens in a positive way. The person their actions have constructed is simply not capable of using the psychedelic energy to make them a kinder person. Instead all that energy gets redirected into more self-centered thought patterns.

It is also interesting to think about the role dose plays. Leary and McKenna say that high doses are a necessity because low ones can strengthen the ego (not like the way MDMA would however). But others stress low doses so the experiences can be integrated and the person not get scared away. Interestingly though, from my experience ego-trippers tend to go pretty hard.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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InvisibleEonTan
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #5011223 - 12/03/05 07:40 PM (15 years, 11 hours ago)

Tripping made me more absorbent, not less. I love HIGH doses.


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Offlineincubaby_421
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: EonTan]
    #5011285 - 12/03/05 08:05 PM (15 years, 10 hours ago)

who knows?
my personality has changed so much since i started tripping...
i think he has a good point...
though i couldnt really sya wether or not i am that way myself,
i dont think i am, but if i were, than i wouldnt
PARADOX!


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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OfflinePrajna
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #5011292 - 12/03/05 08:08 PM (15 years, 10 hours ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
This varies much from person to person, but I'm starting to think that for some people psychedelic drugs do the opposite of advertised. More and more I am coming across people who's ego sense, selfishness and anti-social behavior is increased by frequent and heavy trips. Instead of humbling them and making them more kind to other living beings tripping makes some megalomaniacal.

My theory is that like the old saying, what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. Some people misuse these chemicals by pushing the ego to the edge so that it becomes more fortified. If they can withstand the existential onslaught of tripping back in sober reality their sense of self is affirmed, rather than weakened. Powerful experiences make them feel stronger and eventually better than everyone else, using those experiences to differentiate themselves from other people who have not had them. They begin to seperate themselves from others that they feel are to stupid or ignorant, creating resentment and hatred. Usually this ends up as a martyr complex when their self-centered behavior and/or drug use begins drawing criticism from other people. They feel they are being persecuted for their beliefs by people who don't understand!

The experience is ultimately in the hands of the user. No chemical has the inherent power to make you a good person. Any thoughts?




This is a pretty profound statement man, there is definitely some truth to it, made me think about my own experiences while tripping and how I have fought with heavy ego problems during trips...

I can distinctly remember one time when I thought that all of my friends were stupid and I was so much better than them that they didn't deserve my presence at the party because I was too good for them...

This led to a dangerous and confusing walk home in the cold because for some reason my ego was inflated to a point of being almost evil looking back on it...

I was so ashamed of myself after that night, leaving like that, telling no one...  Thank god I have good friends and they understood later, because I acted like a complete asshole...

Scared the shit out of them when they noticed me missing too...
I was so overtaken with disdain for them that I didn't tell anyone I was leaving and winter nights where I live are cold enough to kill...

I'm not normally like that, and that happened to be the most I have ever taken in one sitting, so perhaps you are on to something...

Good post man! 
Really made me think...
5 shrooms for you!...  :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:


--------------------


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Offlineincubaby_421
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: Prajna]
    #5011316 - 12/03/05 08:18 PM (15 years, 10 hours ago)

i think i may be...
i dont allow certain people to have this experience, therefore robbing them of a multitude of possibilities, who am i to discern who is capable of handling this and who is not, but it is really in thier best interest, just trust me,

of course, they could explore other avenues and find it other places,
small town life though, the shit barely exists to more than 5% people here, you have to know a couple of very seclusive (and for good reason) people

so the choice is left up to me,

but does that qualify me for megalomania?

i do think i am better than them in ways, of thought and so forth,

and every so often when i do let one in, i am always disapointed, i end up sitting with some stoner all night listening to them giggle about how fucked up they are,

so really, arent some better than others, i mean, obviously some do not retain the cognitive capacity to reap the full benefits of these chemicals


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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OfflinePrajna
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: incubaby_421]
    #5011511 - 12/03/05 09:12 PM (15 years, 9 hours ago)

Quote:

incubaby_421 said:
i think i may be...
i dont allow certain people to have this experience, therefore robbing them of a multitude of possibilities, who am i to discern who is capable of handling this and who is not, but it is really in thier best interest, just trust me,

of course, they could explore other avenues and find it other places,
small town life though, the shit barely exists to more than 5% people here, you have to know a couple of very seclusive (and for good reason) people

so the choice is left up to me,

but does that qualify me for megalomania?

i do think i am better than them in ways, of thought and so forth,

and every so often when i do let one in, i am always disapointed, i end up sitting with some stoner all night listening to them giggle about how fucked up they are,

so really, arent some better than others, i mean, obviously some do not retain the cognitive capacity to reap the full benefits of these chemicals




You have some good points here, and I am sure that you can relate to the way that I felt that night. 

I was the one who brought the experience to the others, as I generally do with my friends...(they all want to try everything, but are  unwilling to seek it out for themselves)...that's another issue entirely though... :rolleyes:

I also live in a tiny little town, so we can relate on that too... :wink:

However...

I strive more than anything in else in my life NOT to judge others, and when I took my largest dose ever that night I did more judging than I probably ever have...

In my own head it was almost akin to a breakdown, I was hating people for their minor faults and mentally tearing them to shreds...this is not something I am proud of because I have as many faults as the next guy, and some of these people are like family to me...

None of my thinking could have been guessed to anyone on the outside based on my actions...(thank god)...but I was REALLY judging people in the silence of my own little world...

If anything I was the one that was wrong in my situation because I should have been more discerning in who I gave them out to...and my friends were acting really stupid, but it was my fault for handing out this substance like it was candy...

Do you know what I mean?

I have since this "ego-trip", stopped being the guy who supplies everyone regardless of how they act though, so for my own sake it was a good thing and I did learn an important lesson from it...


--------------------


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: Prajna]
    #5011714 - 12/03/05 10:18 PM (15 years, 8 hours ago)

Prajna...to me, that sounds like your ego latched onto judgement so that it wouldn't lose myself.

When I near egodeath on shrooms, I often have a period of "egoism." If I realize what's happening, I can focus on relaxing my ego and letting go, then the egoism vanishes and I become the exact opposite: vulnerable and humbled and seeking peace.

Remember, that the LAST THING the ego wants is to lose itself! It will do anything to "cling on," including leading someone into judgemental thinking.

Next time you're tripping hard and you notice yourself start to be "egotistical," just think of it as a last ditch effort by your ego to hang on.

Your ego either hangs on for the ride, or you lose it.

Once you understand what's happening, it's your choice, really.


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Offlineincubaby_421
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: MOTH]
    #5011741 - 12/03/05 10:27 PM (15 years, 8 hours ago)

yeah, you have to remeber also, that the ego does not want to be lost, and at imes, can be very hard to let go of


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: incubaby_421]
    #5011785 - 12/03/05 10:41 PM (15 years, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

incubaby_421 said:
yeah, you have to remeber also, that the ego does not want to be lost, and at imes, can be very hard to let go of




*very painfully excruciatingly hard :wink:  :mushroom2:


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Offlineincubaby_421
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: MOTH]
    #5011837 - 12/03/05 10:53 PM (15 years, 8 hours ago)

very


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Offlinecarl
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Re: A Problem With Psychedelics: Ego Trippers [Re: carl]
    #5012914 - 12/04/05 05:40 AM (15 years, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

carl said:
Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
This varies much from person to person, but I'm starting to think that for some people psychedelic drugs do the opposite of advertised. More and more I am comming across people who's ego sense, selfishness and anti-social behavior is increased by frequent and heavy trips. Instead of humbling them and making them more kind to other living beings tripping makes some megalomaniacal.

My theory is that like the old saying, what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. Some people misuse these chemicals by pushing the ego to the edge so that it becomes more fortified. If they can withstand the existential onslaught of tripping back in sober reality their sense of self is affirmed, rather than weakened. Powerful experiences make them feel stronger and eventually better than everyone else, using those experiences to differentiate themselves from other people who have not had them. They begin to seperate themselves from others that they feel are to stupid or ignorant, creating resentment and hatred. Usually this ends up as a martyr complex when their self-centered behavior and/or drug use begins drawing criticism from other people. They feel they are being persecuted for their beliefs by people who don't understand!

The experience is ultimately in the hands of the user. No chemical has the inherent power to make you a good person. Any thoughts?




That is my life story over the last year. No joke, that is scary.




Its not that i am mean to people like that guy that was mentioned earlier, I just kind of feel bad for everyone else who doesn't know what i know. I kinda look down on others.


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