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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Is it ever, not retarded to believe ?
    #14338695 -

If not, could someone please 'enlighten' me as to the correct coherent and logical stance to take when approaching and defending faith ?


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The arrogant cat stalks the humble mouse, the self important dog chases away the cat and is in turn unable to stand it's ground against the Proud lion. Then the lion is almost trampled underfoot of the enlightened elephant, who surprisingly and paradoxically yields to the humble mouse.

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Re: Is it ever, not retarded to believe ? [Re: Brainstem]
    #14338733 -

It's an emotional thing, not a logical/rational thing.


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Is it ever, not retarded to believe ? [Re: Poid]
    #14338767 -

How do you mean ?

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Re: Is it ever, not retarded to believe ? [Re: Brainstem]
    #14338779 -

Faith is not logical, people have faith in things for emotional reasons--the argument could be made that faith isn't retarded because it makes one happy.


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Is it ever, not retarded to believe ? [Re: Poid]
    #14338801 -

I may be off track, but is faith sometimes not the motivation behind a persons attempt to be free of emotion ?

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Re: Is it ever, not retarded to believe ? [Re: Brainstem]
    #14338826 -

It certainly can be.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Is it ever, not retarded to believe ? [Re: Poid]
    #14338863 -

So things that make us happy are not necessarily good for us and alternately things that we abhore can sometimes be beneficial in one way or another ?

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Re: Is it ever, not retarded to believe ? [Re: Brainstem]
    #14338883 -

I agree with that. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Is it ever, not retarded to believe ? [Re: Poid]
    #14338973 -

Then can we not say that, belief allows us to perpetuate the search for something until faith is no longer needed ?

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Re: Is it ever, not retarded to believe ? [Re: Brainstem]
    #14338989 -

It can, sure.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Is it ever, not retarded to believe ? [Re: Poid]
    #14339012 -

Obviously with a moderate attitude, and ensuring there is no imposition of a persons beliefs on an individual or group, through violence or deception.

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Re: Is it ever, not retarded to believe ? [Re: Brainstem] * 1
    #14339369 -

IMO believing things that are completely absent any supporting evidence is always retarded.

If not, could someone please 'enlighten' me as to the correct coherent and logical stance to take when approaching and defending faith?

Faith is not logical. It's arbitrary belief in something "just because". What's more, it's belief in things that other faithful people find diametrically opposed to their own faith.

The pope preaches that god wants humans to be peaceful. He has no evidence for this. He believes it "just because".

Meanwhile, suicide bombers preach that god want's innocent civilians, including little kids, to be dismembered in terrorist attacks. Like the pope, they have no evidence for this. They believe it "just because".

This theme repeats everywhere that people make recourse to faith instead of evidence to form opinions and make decisions. Witness the irrational war on drugs. Its goal is to prevent the harm that drugs cause, but instead drugs remain easy to get and it's the drug war that causes harm.

The drug war destroys the lives and careers of people who get arrested with a few joints. It gives rise rise to the atrocious drug gang violence in Mexico and funds terrorist activities through the enormous profit motive prohibition creates on the Afghanistan heroin trade.

By every measure the drug war is a gigantic, expensive failure, but it goes on and on. Why? Because of irrational decision making by people who have faith that the drug war a good thing "just because".


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Is it ever, not retarded to believe ? [Re: Diploid]
    #14339566 -

Quote:
IMO believing things that are completely absent any supporting evidence is always retarded.



I believe Diploid is a super-duper human being! :sun:


--------------------

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Re: Is it ever, not retarded to believe ? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14339593 -

Except that. :razz:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Is it ever, not retarded to believe ? [Re: Diploid]
    #14339739 -

Diploid said:
IMO believing things that are completely absent any supporting evidence is always retarded.

If not, could someone please 'enlighten' me as to the correct coherent and logical stance to take when approaching and defending faith?

Faith is not logical. It's arbitrary belief in something "just because". What's more, it's belief in things that other faithful people find diametrically opposed to their own faith.

The pope preaches that god wants humans to be peaceful. He has no evidence for this. He believes it "just because".





Meanwhile, suicide bombers preach that god want's innocent civilians, including little kids, to be dismembered in terrorist attacks. Like the pope, they have no evidence for this. They believe it "just because".

This theme repeats everywhere that people make recourse faith instead of evidence to form opinions and make decisions. Witness the irrational war on drugs. Its goal is to prevent the harm that drugs cause, but instead drugs remain easy to get and it's the drug war that causes harm.

The drug war destroys the lives and careers of people who get arrested with a few joints. It gives rise rise to the atrocious drug gang violence in Mexico and funds terrorist activities through the enormous pro
fit motive prohibition creates on the Afghanistan heroin trade.

By every measure the drug war is an gigantic, expensive failure, but it goes on and on. Why? Because of irrational decision making by people who have faith that the drug war a good thing "just because".



Do you think there is a difference between a belief that something is true and a belief that something is possible ?



OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
IMO believing things that are completely absent any supporting evidence is always retarded.



I believe Diploid is a super-duper human being! :sun:


Diploid said:
IMO believing things that are completely absent any supporting evidence is always retarded.

If not, could someone please 'enlighten' me as to the correct coherent and logical stance to take when approaching and defending faith?

Faith is not logical. It's arbitrary belief in something "just because". What's more, it's belief in things that other faithful people find diametrically opposed to their own faith.

The pope preaches that god wants humans to be peaceful. He has no evidence for this. He believes it "just because".

Meanwhile, suicide bombers preach that god want's innocent civilians, including little kids, to be dismembered in terrorist attacks. Like the pope, they have no evidence for this. They believe it "just because".

This theme repeats everywhere that people make recourse faith instead of evidence to form opinions and make decisions. Witness the irrational war on drugs. Its goal is to prevent the harm that drugs cause, but instead drugs remain easy to get and it's the drug war that causes harm.

The drug war destroys the lives and careers of people who get arrested with a few joints. It gives rise rise to the atrocious drug gang violence in Mexico and funds terrorist activities through the enormous profit motive prohibition creates on the Afghanistan heroin trade.

By every measure the drug war is an gigantic, expensive failure, but it goes on and on. Why? Because of irrational decision making by people who have faith that the drug war a good thing "just because".



So, do you think there is a difference between believing something is a fact and believing something may be possible ?

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Re: Is it ever, not retarded to believe ? [Re: Diploid]
    #14339795 -

I have to agree with Diploid's excellent response.

"Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits."
- Dan Barker, author and former evangelist


--------------------
Lois, this family believes in the Easter Bunny.  He died for our sins in that helicopter crash.  Now, if you wanna go to hell, that's fine, but don't drag the rest of us down with you like a mentally handicapped rooster.
- Peter Griffin (Family Guy)

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Re: Is it ever, not retarded to believe ? [Re: Brainstem]
    #14339904 -

Do you think there is a difference between a belief that something is true and a belief that something is possible ?

Yes, but in my experience, the faithful give leeway to the possible that is completely implausible.

I don't think it's rational to go about life leaving teeth under pillows on the POSSIBILITY that the Tooth Fairy is real.

Neither do I think it's rational to bow down and worship an entity that has never made itself verifyably known to anyone (though lots of people have written books about resurrections and other implausible things that the faithful swallow like it's cake and they're starving).


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Is it ever, not retarded to believe ? [Re: Diploid]
    #14340217 -

I cannot deny the logic of your arguement. I do think however that the debate and discussion that takes place here is  an indication of the need for an evolution in religion, or to maybe put it a better  way, a new species of religion. What do you think ?

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Re: Is it ever, not retarded to believe ? [Re: Brainstem]
    #14340764 -

Fuck religion.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Is it ever, not retarded to believe ? [Re: Brainstem]
    #14340797 -

If by "evolution in religion" you mean a religion based on rationality, logic, and critical thinking, then yes, I agree there is a need for that.

However, I think that once those ideas are introduced, religion is reduced to mythological stories with no basis in reality.

You can't rationally argue that god COULD exist and so therefore you choose to live as if he does any more than you can rationally argue the same thing for the Tooth Fairy. Yeah, they COULD exist, but that's absurd.

Now, you can certainly decide to believe in god (or the Tooth Fairy) if it makes you feel good and alleviates your death anxiety, but that doesn't make them real.

I would rather have a bitter truth than a pleasant, sugar-coated lie any day.

Besides, I've studied nature (read: science) enough to see a profound beauty in the universe that stands on its own without need of augmenting with imaginary beings. Making up a stuffy and unnecessary god only detracts from nature's wonder.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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