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OfflinePhanTomCat
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A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....?
    #5510604 - 04/12/06 11:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Since it seems to be common debate topics of skeptics versus believers, this is why I am making this post....
I would like to think we are all seeking the truth, no matter what the answer may be.... 
So I will ask a hypothetical question just to see what it turns into.....    :grin:

Do you think that the world would be a "better place" if there was no belief in a higher power, spirituality, or blind faith....?

Just speaking about general human moral here, do you think the changes in beliefs of ALL people in such a manner would be a positive, negative, or neutral (in general), and why....?

Curious about your thoughts....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5510632 - 04/12/06 11:41 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Do you think that the world would be a "better place" if there was no belief in a higher power, spirituality, or blind faith....?

cut/paste

Well, we wouldn't have:

-Suicide bombers

-Witch burnings at the hands of the Catholics

-Endless killing in Northern Ireland

-Genocide in Rwanda

-War in Bosnia-Herzegovina

-Civil war in Sudan

-Extreme, radical fundamentalist Muslim terrorists in Afghanistan

-Fragile peace in Bosnia holding only due to the presence of UN peacekeepers

-Ivory Coast murders of Muslims at the hands of the government

-Fragile peace in Cyprus holding only due to the presence of UN peacekeepers

-Ongoing conflict in India among Animists, Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs

-Fighting between Christians and Muslims in Ambon Province in India

-Repeated killings over Kashmir by Hindus and Muslims who both claim it on religious grounds

-Hundreds of people in South Africa murdered each year for being witches

-Poor Galileo would not have been inquisitioned and threatened with torture if he didn't denounce his earlier claim that Jupiter has moons. The old scientist was was sentenced to life in prison anyway.

-And Ahmadinejad, Iran's leader, would not believe a divine Saviour known as the Mahdi will appear on Earth after a worldwide cataclysm and be developing nuclear weapons for the purpose of starting World War 3 and hastening His arrival.

So, uhm... yeah, the world WOULD be a better place without mysticism.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5510634 - 04/12/06 11:41 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Well, I'd get along with the rest of my family much better.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5510689 - 04/12/06 11:55 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Nothing much significant would change in my opinion. People still worship and idolize people today, which blind them to truths. People still believe in the higher cognizant powers and human abilities of others, that blind them to other truths. People still power trip over others with tools like wealth, position, material possessions, titles, and man made laws. People still Fight and go to war for non religious reasons. People still live in fear causing them to do irrational things who have no such beliefs in the beyond.

You get my drift.

Most everything "not good" people blame on religion, spirituality or beliefs in higher powers, are really just the result of power tripping ego maniacs hiding behind "religious/spiritual guises"

Okay, that would change. They would hide behind something else.:lol:

Some things may get worse. Some people withhold from harming others and go out of their way to help others because of religious or spiritual beliefs. It's hard to speculate if more people would more easily cause harm to others and say "fuck it to helping people" if those things faded from our global culture and awareness.

It's all speculation though. I am curious to see what others have to say.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineTemptress
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Diploid]
    #5510705 - 04/12/06 11:58 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

the 'new age' section of the bookstore would be empty...  :frown:

Mel Gibson would be way poorer...


--------------------
i have less ego than you do!


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5510712 - 04/13/06 12:00 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

not necessarily.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Diploid]
    #5510738 - 04/13/06 12:07 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Replying to this.

I agree with mostly everything you said but just want to say that the peace in Cyprus has nothing to do with religion as I know that first hand.

Not according to the authors of the Geneva Spiritual Appeal.

They were a group of world religious leaders from Buddhist, Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christian, Jewish, Muslim and many other faiths who met in Geneva in 1999 to issue a document, The Geneva Spiritual Appeal, asking political and religious leaders and organizations to ensure that religions are not used to justify violence in the future. Delegates believed that the then-current 56 conflicts around the world all had religious elements, including the one in Cyprus.

Yes, all these things would not have happened but then more "fragile" people that need to believe in something bigger brighter and good may eventually turned out to be criminals or most probably feel extremely insecure atc.

The reason 'fragile' people need a crutch is because of the shitty world mysticism has created for us all. Were the people of the Earth to give up mysticism and the wasted resources, oppression, and violence required to keep of the facade of truth alive, 'fragile' people would have no need to make up something 'good' to physiologically compensate for all the 'bad'.

Anyway people need to believe and so they do.

No they don't.

People are TAUGHT to believe by their well-meaning parents, and so they do. Virtually everyone grows up believing whatever flavor of mysticism (or atheism) their parents believed, and atheists aren't any more 'fragile' than anyone else.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (04/13/06 12:20 AM)


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OfflineCUBErt
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5510750 - 04/13/06 12:12 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Some Cons of no mysticism:
-many people would have nothing to turn to when things got tough. It has been said that "religion is the opiate of the masses," and often religion is more of a placebo. People pray for something to get better, and if it does they praise their diety. If it doesn't get better, they accept it as the will of that particular diety. Regardless, people find peace that their god is working for them. Ignorance really is bliss, and I think in this case the ignorance can be fairly positive
-many relief organizations/charities are based on religion. Without a God to provide moral standards of helping others (I also admit that many only help as a way of "buying their way into heaven" while they should help people no matter what), it could turn into more of a "dog-eat-dog" world where survival of the fittest took newer and uglier forms.

Some Pros of no mysticism:
-(See Diploid's post)
-No Jahova's Witnesses knocking on my door, and best of all, no Mormon families handing out religious pamphlets on Halloween instead of candy! But then again, Halloween is based on a pagan celebration so without no mysticism it wouldn't exist anyways. However, I would like to think that modern consumerism (exacerbated by the fact that people would no longer have "intangible rewards to believe in) would solve this problem by simply creating more holidays of indulgence.

Just some of the Pros and Cons. It is a tough decision for me, since I believe in some sort of higher power or force. However I do think that if he is not weeping over today's world, he is laughing at the absurdity and the lengths that people will go to in order to please him. I would like to see this discussion continue and learn more from you all.


--------------------
-CUBErt
:cubie::levitate::cubie:


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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Diploid]
    #5510766 - 04/13/06 12:18 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Don't believe everything you read. Bush went to war to free the people of Iraq right. Anyway as I said, I know this first hand because I am greek, the war we had with the Turks goes a very long way back and has nothing to do with religion.

Yes, you are right about why the "fragile" people are "fragile". I fully agree.

I don't agree with your next statement though. I think that people firstly needed a god and so they created it...in the process, different nations created different religions. Nobody taught them these religions when they were created. People need to believe. The need to believe that there is someone who can help them in their time of need. I am not using "need" as in "have to" believe like all of them. Some people need it, others don't. Also, ofcourse they are taught. They, most of us, have been brainwashed to believe from the first years of our life. I think that it is a combination of the two. Peoples insecurity and need and the brainwashing that in turn makes the religions supporters more which then makes them feel better as in the relativity concept. What the majority thinks is right, is right. Which is ofcourse wrong...


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5510789 - 04/13/06 12:26 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

People need to believe. The need to believe that there is someone who can help them in their time of need.

Is it better to let a mother deny the death of her son indefinitely while insisting that he'll be home soon rather than to bring her gently to the painful Truth?

All lies are bad, even the ones that are comforting.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Diploid]
    #5510801 - 04/13/06 12:32 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

It depends on what results you want to achieve, long-term or rhort-term. Also, always leave a possibility that what some religious people believe is true, because if you don't, you just end up as narrow minded as they are. :-)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5510881 - 04/13/06 01:14 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Also, always leave a possibility that what some religious people believe is true, because if you don't, you just end up as narrow minded as they are.

I always leave room for that. To do otherwise is dogma and mystics already have a monopoly on that.

However, while I leave room for the possibility that the Tooth Fairy exists, until we're introduced, I won't believe for one second that she does.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Posts: 4,587
Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Diploid]
    #5510884 - 04/13/06 01:16 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Why believe in anything at all?


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5510893 - 04/13/06 01:25 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Why believe in anything at all?




:lol:

If you didn't believe your post would go through and be read, why did you type it?

If we don't believe shampoo cleans our hair, why would we use it?

If we don't believe cars run on gasoline, why would we fill our tanks with it?

If we don't believe our house keys will unlock our front door, why do we lock it?

What good are facts if we don't believe them?

Beliefs serve a purpose for getting us through the day.:yesnod:

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineFospher
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5511895 - 04/13/06 10:53 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Those aren't true. Those are actions based on proven facts.

I can prove to you that my key unlocks my door, and then do it, I don't need to believe in it in order for it to work.

@Diploid: Those are all examples of extremist views. A small minority does not speak for the majority of Christianity.

Quote:


People are TAUGHT to believe by their well-meaning parents, and so they do. Virtually everyone grows up believing whatever flavor of mysticism (or atheism) their parents believed, and atheists aren't any more 'fragile' than anyone else.




Yet another blanket statement. No one taught me to believe in the neo-shamanism or taoism, and there's a lot of people here on the boat with me.

To sum it up, a belief gives a person hope, some light at the end of the tunnel where there might be none other. You have to realize Diploid that some people have really shitty lives due to famine, disease, AIDS, cancer, poverty - man you fucking name it - and to think that once this is all over they'll be in the ground, rotting, is a really pessimistic and depressive thought.


--------------------
010001100100001001000101!


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Fospher]
    #5512291 - 04/13/06 01:10 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Religion is just used to control people. Give up your money, destroy the environment by expecting God to clean it up, become a terrorist and murder people for making cartoons of your delusional prophet Muhammed, etc.

YES times a billion I think the world would be better without belief in a higher power pulling the strings.

Also, if I was a hot chick I would totally give it up to Diploid for that list of faith's evil outcomes.


--------------------
Namaste


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OfflineThe_Oracle
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5512331 - 04/13/06 01:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

In my opinion, we could definately do without the blind faith... such as strict christianity. I think that spirituality, and seeking truth is good overall if people would stop arguing about it. It is built into every one of us to ask these questions, and we must each INDIVIDUALLY seek the answers for the benefit of our souls. But the path may be different for different people. (to an extent)
I am Bahai. I believe that most religions come from the same God, and they are all just peices of a bigger picture, but people think that their one specific religion is the only path to God. I also believe that christianity has been largely missinterpereted over the course of two thousand years, and people take metaphors too literally.
Just my thoughts...


--------------------
"There are days of doubt, more often lonely nights, when even the devout wonder if they are heirs to a greater kingdom than this earth and if they will know mercy -- or if instead they are only animals like any other, with no inheritance except the wind and the dark."

"You will never understand what reality truly is until you first decide to open your eyes to see if it exists." -Me

"Never take any human word for devine fact. Truth comes only from truth itself. Question everything. Challenge reality itself. Search for answers with new and untainted perspectives. Submit your experiences and your ego and you will be enlightened to what is beyond our understanding of what is." -Me


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OfflinePeyote_Princess
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: The_Oracle]
    #5512413 - 04/13/06 01:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I think that perhaps there ought to be a distinction made between blind faith and other faith; to me 'blind' faith boils down to an individual (or a group) believing in something without personal investigation - which is, needless to say, concerning.

Though there is belief involved in daily life; Fospher you say you don't need to believe that the key will unlock your door - because you can prove it... but, just because it has worked when you come home for the last 14days, doesn't necesarily mean it will everyday - what if some part breaks of, or its bent, if thi happens without you realising it won't work... but you still would attempt to push it into the keyhole because the daily pattern of your life, and the number of times the key has worked, has served to establish  this belief for you.

Discussing whether 'the world would be a better place' etc. is somewhat academic; I don't think it'll happen - people have had totems, idols, and gods as part of society for a long time - I think that it would take some majoy alteration in human psychology to rid the human mind of this propensity to believe.

And even f we rid ourselves of the 'old' religion - new icons to worship spring up... celebritities, football teams, authors - all ausing people in various ways to imitate them, follow them and 'worship' them.

An interesting read on the subject woul be the novel "American Gods" by Neil Gaiman... really, really good - only just recently finished reading it myself and I would thoroughly recommend it.

Peyote_Princess xXx :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Was I talking? ... Did they hear me?"


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: CUBErt]
    #5512512 - 04/13/06 02:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

"many people would have nothing to turn to when things got tough."

NO! People would actually realize that when things get rough, the proper response is to DO something instead of wringing their hands, dropping to their knees, and asking the imaginary genie for more wishes! The very fact that people turn to religion for help when they are in need is a tragedy. If people didn't expect God to provide, they wouldn't blame nonbelievers for getting in the way of His provisions.


--------------------
Namaste


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OfflineFospher
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5512605 - 04/13/06 03:01 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RedNukleus said:
Religion is just used to control people. Give up your money, destroy the environment by expecting God to clean it up, become a terrorist and murder people for making cartoons of your delusional prophet Muhammed, etc.




Dont reply to my post if you dont bother reading it.


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010001100100001001000101!


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5512674 - 04/13/06 03:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

If you didn't believe your post would go through and be read, why did you type it?

Because, based on previous experience, it seems that it probably would go through. Although, I've also had posts that didn't go through due to connect errors.

What good are facts if we don't believe them?

Probabilities based on the amount of evidence we currently have available.


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OfflineCUBErt
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5512681 - 04/13/06 03:28 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

NO! People would actually realize that when things get rough, the proper response is to DO something instead of wringing their hands, dropping to their knees, and asking the imaginary genie for more wishes! The very fact that people turn to religion for help when they are in need is a tragedy. If people didn't expect God to provide, they wouldn't blame nonbelievers for getting in the way of His provisions.




I agree to an extent. I don't think an old woman taking comfort in the belief that her dead husband is in heaven is necessarily tragic. But it is often unfortunate that people throw their hands up in the air and shut down, leaving it "in God's hands."


--------------------
-CUBErt
:cubie::levitate::cubie:


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Fospher]
    #5512692 - 04/13/06 03:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I was using Opera browser and the quick reply link does not work. I ended up replying to the most recent post when i wanted to reply to the top post.


--------------------
Namaste


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: CUBErt]
    #5512696 - 04/13/06 03:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I see. I guess an analogous comfort could be that the energy that used to be her husband is now part of the world around her again, or that his ashes are still with her, or something.


--------------------
Namaste


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5512703 - 04/13/06 03:37 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

All the people saying life would be better without God couldnt be more wrong.

Sure we wouldnt have a list of attrocities like this one

[qoute]Well, we wouldn't have:

-Suicide bombers

-Witch burnings at the hands of the Catholics

-Endless killing in Northern Ireland

-Genocide in Rwanda

-War in Bosnia-Herzegovina

-Civil war in Sudan

-Extreme, radical fundamentalist Muslim terrorists in Afghanistan

-Fragile peace in Bosnia holding only due to the presence of UN peacekeepers

-Ivory Coast murders of Muslims at the hands of the government

-Fragile peace in Cyprus holding only due to the presence of UN peacekeepers

-Ongoing conflict in India among Animists, Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs

-Fighting between Christians and Muslims in Ambon Province in India

-Repeated killings over Kashmir by Hindus and Muslims who both claim it on religious grounds

-Hundreds of people in South Africa murdered each year for being witches

-Poor Galileo would not have been inquisitioned and threatened with torture if he didn't denounce his earlier claim that Jupiter has moons. The old scientist was was sentenced to life in prison anyway.

-And Ahmadinejad, Iran's leader, would not believe a divine Saviour known as the Mahdi will appear on Earth after a worldwide cataclysm and be developing nuclear weapons for the purpose of starting World War 3 and hastening His arrival.




But what would we have?

Are you people who believe so naive to think that without religion people would just all get along?

What attrocities will arise in the absence of morality and God?
Will they be worse than those carried out in the name of God?
Wouldnt countries still become overcrowded and have the need to expand their borders? wouldnt there still be war?
Wouldnt you still be able to find someone willing to kill himself and take a few people with themselves if you really looked?
Wouldnt people still kill in passion?
Wouldnt we still steal what isnt ours?



People who say that the horrible things that are carried out in God's name could be eliminated if God had not been "invented" by early man are blind to humanity. They take the easy way out instead of trying to understand why we do these things to our brothers. Cowards is what they are.

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Diploid]
    #5512706 - 04/13/06 03:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Also, always leave a possibility that what some religious people believe is true, because if you don't, you just end up as narrow minded as they are.

I always leave room for that. To do otherwise is dogma and mystics already have a monopoly on that.

However, while I leave room for the possibility that the Tooth Fairy exists, until we're introduced, I won't believe for one second that she does.




Of course!! And that is the normal state of mind in my opinion.


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: blaze2]
    #5512721 - 04/13/06 03:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

A system of world peace has not been developed. This is not proof that faith in God brings people any closer to world peace.

A world with or without God has trouble. This does not absolve religion from the destructiveness inherent in it.


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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5512754 - 04/13/06 03:52 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Why is it that some people here are "black or white"? Also are some of the people here even bother to read any of the replies?

"People who say that the horrible things that are carried out in God's name could be eliminated if God had not been "invented" by early man are blind to humanity. They take the easy way out instead of trying to understand why we do these things to our brothers. Cowards is what they are."

Who said that? I think you are mixing up opinions. The horrible things would not have happened, but some other would and as I said, many people would end up worse and kill others, so compensating for the "god" loss. I explained how people need god and how some are taught to need god.

There is no black or white.


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5512761 - 04/13/06 03:53 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

there is no destruction inherent in religion, its inherent in man, who as far as I know is are the only animals we know about practicing religion.  It might be inherent in ORGANIZED RELIGION(read these two words as men acting like they know better than GOD) but the idea of God itself is inherently good.  Some poeple would rather pin it on religion than own it as a human whatever floats your boat, but the end result is the same... 

it all comes back to duality, creation destruction.  Both have to be there, THERE WILL NEVER BE A "SYSTEM OF WORLD PEACE"  till the day God decided to reap his harvest. 

Laugh all you want non-believers, but the day draws nigh(I love writing all biblical liek that :smile:  )peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: blaze2]
    #5512782 - 04/13/06 03:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

cool enjoy the day of the rapture, unless Lord Xenu traps your soul in a giant soul catcher in the sky first!

In the meantime read the bible and tell me it doesnt condemn those who don't follow it. Read the bible or quran and tell me it doesnt instigate the oppresion of women. Destructive.


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Namaste


Edited by RedNukleus (04/13/06 04:27 PM)


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: blaze2]
    #5512786 - 04/13/06 03:58 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

God gives man a convenient excuse to commit murders. "We are burning you at the stake, Bruno, for your own good."


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: blaze2]
    #5513060 - 04/13/06 05:27 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

blaze2 said:
It might be inherent in ORGANIZED RELIGION(read these two words as men acting like they know better than GOD)




What religion is not organized? Unorganized religion?

"Well, I had prepared a sermon for you all to bask in, but I seem to have misplaced my notes..."

:lol:

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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5513075 - 04/13/06 05:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

"acting like they know better than GOD"

imo peoples minds together with some loose facts and needs created GOD, so saying that people act like they know better than god kind of contradicts itself. I say if god has an opinion let him/her/it/whatever share it with us.


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5513080 - 04/13/06 05:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Yah I agree with him, fireworks. I know better than your god. You wanna know why? He doesn't exist so he doesn't know anything.

Now let me get this straight. My opinion, above, is your definition of organized religion. In what way shape or form does my opinion that I know more than God have anything to do with me being part of organized religion?


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5513083 - 04/13/06 05:36 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

most probably... ;-)


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Diploid]
    #5513263 - 04/13/06 06:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Diploid, you have named a lot of things that are killing in the names of religion/spirituality/God way up at the top of this thread....
Do you honestly think that all that killing would stop just because religion/spirituality/God was gone, or would the killing just be done for a different reason(s)....?

I am thinking the later of the two myself....  :shrug:

Question being, would it all be better or worse....? 

There are a lot of positive aspects to religion/spirituality/God on people's lives that **seem** to sometimes get overlooked by people that don't share in the same beliefs.... 
Would you agree...?


>^;;^<


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5513284 - 04/13/06 06:41 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

People always look at the bad side of things. I don't care what anyone believes in because its none of my business and it doesn't actually effect me and if it does I didn't know it was so again I don't care.

Holy wars in the middle east, who cares i don't live there.

Stem cell research, who cares I have plenty of stem cells apparently :grin:.


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5513297 - 04/13/06 06:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

There is no real reason for much of the wars that occur today. There are religious extremists and their ideas about suicide mission'ing themselves and receiving hundreds of virgins in heaven is incentive for them. The doctrine that all these people accept helps rally their fury as a people, and solidifies their cause: war and killing.

Religion DEFINITELY plays a role in driving these idiots to kill each other. Tell me september 11th would have happened without religion, like you claim.


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5513300 - 04/13/06 06:45 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoslut said:
People always look at the bad side of things. I don't care what anyone believes in because its none of my business and it doesn't actually effect me and if it does I didn't know it was so again I don't care.

Holy wars in the middle east, who cares i don't live there.

Stem cell research, who cares I have plenty of stem cells apparently :grin:.




That's quite an isolated view mate. Holy wars, they may knock your door too, so saving your loved one's life using stem cells tech.

If you don't care about what other people's beliefs are why are you here?


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5513339 - 04/13/06 06:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerious said:
Quote:

Psychoslut said:
People always look at the bad side of things. I don't care what anyone believes in because its none of my business and it doesn't actually effect me and if it does I didn't know it was so again I don't care.

Holy wars in the middle east, who cares i don't live there.

Stem cell research, who cares I have plenty of stem cells apparently :grin:.




That's quite an isolated view mate. Holy wars, they may knock your door too, so saving your loved one's life using stem cells tech.

If you don't care about what other people's beliefs are why are you here?




Im not sure. I dont care what your beliefe is but its interesting i guess. I probably will not be here long. I have too short of temper when people tell me im wrong about something so i probably wont be able to handle this place without being banned.


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5513453 - 04/13/06 07:24 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoslut said:
People always look at the bad side of things. I don't care what anyone believes in because its none of my business and it doesn't actually effect me and if it does I didn't know it was so again I don't care.




Do you use drugs? Do you like sex? Do you enjoy the freedom to do what you please as long as it harms no one else? How about expletives in musikk? Drinking on Sundays?

Quote:


Holy wars in the middle east, who cares i don't live there.




Know anyone in the military? Are you subject to the effects of economics?

Quote:


Stem cell research, who cares I have plenty of stem cells apparently :grin:.




Do you know what stem cells are? :grin:

Every occurence on this planet, in some way, effects you, my friend. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5513465 - 04/13/06 07:27 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoslut said:
Im not sure. I dont care what your beliefe is but its interesting i guess. I probably will not be here long. I have too short of temper when people tell me im wrong about something so i probably wont be able to handle this place without being banned.




There's no need to emotionally react to what occurs in this forum. I'd suggest lightening up if you'll get angry if someone counters your viewpoint with another perspective.

For the most part, that is why we are all here, to exchange ideas, to influence each other's perspectives on life, reality, etc. etc. Don't place your identity into your ideas and you'll have no problem when someone else's differs from your own.

And, anyways, you can't get banned here unless you are Swami. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5513469 - 04/13/06 07:28 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I dont know what a stem cell is all i know is its more than what we need.


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5513503 - 04/13/06 07:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RedNukleus said:
Tell me september 11th would have happened without religion, like you claim.




I claimed....?    I remember asking questions, I don't remember claiming anything....  :smirk:
It **seems** that most killings and wars are more in the name of human greed, and then blamed on religion/spirituality/God....


Correct me if I am wrong, but Hitler didn't kill people in the name of any religion/spirituality/God, did he...? 
***IF*** this is the case, I would think that with the lack of religion/spirituality/God to blame for the deeds done,
the root cause might boil down to greed/selfishness of humans in **most** cases - where the blame **should** be anyways....    :shrug:


>^;;^<


--------------------
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5513504 - 04/13/06 07:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

If your parents are about to die from a horrible disease which stem cell tech can cure, will you then think about stem cells? I suggest you start thinking about stuff or you will be most definately unpleasently surprised by life...


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5513516 - 04/13/06 07:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I can't believe you are still continuing that debate.

-People killing for personal satisfaction.

-People kiling for religion's sake.

-People killing for personal satisfaction claiming they do for religion.

killing....killing....killing.........

religion is not causing it all, but it is causing some and can also be easily manipulated to cause some more. That's it!


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5513522 - 04/13/06 07:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoslut said:
I dont know what a stem cell is all i know is its more than what we need.




How can you know what advantages and disadvantages stem cell research carries with it if you do not evenknow what stem cell research involves?

Would you have made the same statement when they invented gauze and bandages?

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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
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Loving every breath of you

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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5513528 - 04/13/06 07:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The 9/11 terrorist attacked us because we live in the best country in the world and they live in one of the worst. Its sort of like the poorer brother being resentful to the more wealthy brother.


Im finished talking about medical technology and wether or not its good or bad. Im just saying that there are long term effects on the planet that people dont think of.


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5513552 - 04/13/06 07:53 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

"Do you honestly think that all that killing would stop just because religion/spirituality/God was gone, or would the killing just be done for a different reason(s)....?"

If all that killing would be done for different reasons, then all those suicide bombings and september 11th would be done for different reasons. This is not the case.


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5513563 - 04/13/06 07:59 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Really? Oh I didn't know that. You asked them?


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5513567 - 04/13/06 08:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Relax, a good killing here and there is good for population balance.


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5513571 - 04/13/06 08:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

So you ppl think that 9/11 was all about religion? The kamikaze soldiers etc that killed people do it for religion because someone else, their leader, uses religion, brainwashes them from a young age to kill for it. 20 years ago, Bush was friends with some of the people he now kills. Do you want to know what I think has more possibilities to be true?

Bush finds nice rich oil source. Bush speaks with key people there. Bush arranges 9-11 attack. Bush lets bad people flee. Bush declares war on the name of freedom, god and antiterrorism. Bush wins oil. 30 years 50 years later Bush admits it all. It would not be the first time US have done such a thing. Remember bombing one of your own boats so you can blame cuba and start war and after 30 years admitting it?


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5513577 - 04/13/06 08:06 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You support the actions of terrorists so I see no point in conversing with you.


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5513590 - 04/13/06 08:10 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I dont support the actions of terrorists I just like to find some good in everything.


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5513594 - 04/13/06 08:11 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Like you do in stem cells research?


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5513610 - 04/13/06 08:17 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Seemingly good things can have bad un foreseen outcomes.


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5513637 - 04/13/06 08:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Do you see the good in stem cell research?


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5513639 - 04/13/06 08:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoslut said:
Seemingly good things can have bad un foreseen outcomes.




Like not implementing stem cell research. :grin:

That is to say, vice versa? :wink:

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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5513648 - 04/13/06 08:28 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

First of all why the heck does bush think his god has an opinion on stem cell research?


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5513656 - 04/13/06 08:31 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Easy. He wants to be the only one to research this technology so he can use it in war for his advantage.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5513667 - 04/13/06 08:36 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoslut said:
First of all why the heck does bush think his god has an opinion on stem cell research?




Because the stem cells are collected from aborted fetuses.

Fundamental Christanity - Pro Life - Agansit Stem Cell Research

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5513689 - 04/13/06 08:41 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I'm pro life and death, my way is best.


I don't think you guys fully understand the problem I have with medical technology. I just think that it is a waist of time and ridiculous for your (or my) grandpa to have three organ transplants and 7 open heart surgeries just so he can sit in his recliner watching price is right and soaking up social security checks and racking up enormous medical bills for tax payers to pay for.


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5513750 - 04/13/06 09:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

And what of the newly born baby with a bad heart?

The more advanced medical technology becomes, the less the scenario you describe will exist, and the more youthful individuals will be granted more time to truly experience life.

And what the fuck do you have agansit Bob Barker? :mad:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5513772 - 04/13/06 09:07 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

A new born baby with a bad heart should be fixed, unless its needed for research purposes  :smirk:.


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5513787 - 04/13/06 09:12 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

:lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Diploid]
    #5514085 - 04/13/06 10:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Do you think that the world would be a "better place" if there was no belief in a higher power, spirituality, or blind faith....?

cut/paste

Well, we wouldn't have:

-Suicide bombers

-Witch burnings at the hands of the Catholics

-Endless killing in Northern Ireland

-Genocide in Rwanda

-War in Bosnia-Herzegovina

-Civil war in Sudan

-Extreme, radical fundamentalist Muslim terrorists in Afghanistan

-Fragile peace in Bosnia holding only due to the presence of UN peacekeepers

-Ivory Coast murders of Muslims at the hands of the government

-Fragile peace in Cyprus holding only due to the presence of UN peacekeepers

-Ongoing conflict in India among Animists, Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs

-Fighting between Christians and Muslims in Ambon Province in India

-Repeated killings over Kashmir by Hindus and Muslims who both claim it on religious grounds

-Hundreds of people in South Africa murdered each year for being witches

-Poor Galileo would not have been inquisitioned and threatened with torture if he didn't denounce his earlier claim that Jupiter has moons. The old scientist was was sentenced to life in prison anyway.

-And Ahmadinejad, Iran's leader, would not believe a divine Saviour known as the Mahdi will appear on Earth after a worldwide cataclysm and be developing nuclear weapons for the purpose of starting World War 3 and hastening His arrival.

So, uhm... yeah, the world WOULD be a better place without mysticism.




But hey, if it helps a few weak-minded sheep to better stomach reality then it's all worth it in the end, right?


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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5514143 - 04/13/06 10:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The problem is that we are talking about the majority of the earth's population. Could be that some of us will need that in the future. You know as you grow old, you get so saturated with all that shit in the world where you start to look for alternate ways to make you feel better even if they are not true. And what better than Christianism for example? You have the majority of the earth's population to back you up too! I say, erase christianism and create Love. Now that I think of it...yeah why not? That way you could say for example..."My parents raised me to be a lover!!!" lolollol


--------------------


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5514282 - 04/13/06 11:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I feel that anti-depressants are a safer alternative.


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5516702 - 04/14/06 05:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You people and your simple minds.

First off the bible is taught wrong and this is why organized religion thinks it knows better than God, or Jesus.

THe very existence of Churches are against the teachings of both the new and old Testaments.

"Lift a stone and you will find me, turn a leaf and I am there" Doesnt say anythisgn about finding him in a building does it?

When Jesus is resurrected and he comes back to show his apostles one of them kneels to Jesus. Jesus says something liek this "Stop and worship God even as I do." Jesus explicitly said do not worship him.

"Worship in your closet" or something like that is also in the bible. kinda rules out churches again.



God doesnt promote the denegration of Women. It does says that women should be submisive to men I know, but again it is taught wrong its not saying all women should always be submissive to men. Its saying when you truly love someone and marry them then the woman should want do what the man asks her because of her love, not because its Gods laws. Again a man wrote the bible but I'm pretty sure that the same goes for guys and their ladys wants.

Some of the men in the bible did denigrate women, but show me where it says God supports them.

The multiple wive thing(if it bothers you) was how we evoloved man, the alpha male gets to mate with all females in teh tribe. Hence you have that translating into early society as the powerful men having multiple wives. We have grown out of that now, and the bible never says a man should have many wives, he only said he rewarded you.

I assume you people take offense to leviticus and the old laws. Well they are just that, they arent Gods laws and punishments they were the laws that Moses had to come up with to keep his new nation of Isreal together. All nations have rules, and not everyone is gonna like them. look at us whining all the time because our drugs are illegal.

Lastly NOWHERE in teh bible does it mention drugs of any sort(there is some evidence that cannibus was mistranslated as CALAMUS, if true then the bible is actually supporting use of drugs.) So stop saying it is against them.

Alcohol is actually spoken of well the story of Abrahams son(cant remember which one) taking on a high position in Egypt there is a line something like "And they drank well, and it was good." Ive read almost all of the bible and havent seen "no drinking on sundays" Im pretty sure that was just a blue law and added onto our list of things we do in thinking we know better than God. IF God has nothign to say on a subject then its probrobly not wrong.

Lastly the bible is NOT against other religions. I'm sure youll say otherwise based on "thou shalt have no other God but me" commandment but your wrong. If you fully understand the Idea of one God, then you realize that if there is only One and it has always been. then all the other times people have spoken to God or seen him must have been THE God. In other words if you get the One God thing then you see that ALL religions are worshiping the same Guy. Just in different ways. about the only worship they talk about in the bible is their sacrifices and offerings.

On a side note about teh sacrifices(animal cruelty some some would call it I'm sure) You have to understand the people who carried them out. they were hunters and as such saw everyday the death of animals. When a animal say a deer or something dies you can almost see its soul in its eyes as life fades from it. I'm pretty sure that its no coincidence that early man saw it as a way to connect with God. Again grown out of it. Not relevent really.

Another thing you see alot early on as far as worship is so and so built an altar in the wilderness and burnt it. I'm pretty sure they are talking about building a bonfire. Sounds like we liked sitting around a big fire even back then.

Just because poeple use the bible for their own gains does not taint the thing itself.

IF there was no bible then I would think the kind of poeple who would use the bible for evil, would still be doing evil and most likely they will have some other thing with which to pass on their guilt to. In a God less world you would most likely have a strong sense of Nationalism(this is what China has instead of religion) it is not communism(though communism requires it). Nationalism is the like love and comrodery felt by those who believe in God, without morals of course.

You guys seem to think the bible warps our minds into wanting to do these evil things. I see it as evil people being crafty little bastards at finding ways to exploit things.

Peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: blaze2]
    #5516802 - 04/14/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

First off the bible is taught wrong and this is why organized religion thinks it knows better than God, or Jesus.

This is exactly the attitude that leads to 'The List' I wrote in the second post to this thread: "my religion is THE religion and yours is wrong".

Once you've psychologically established that to yourself, it's not far to conflict, killing, war, genocide, and all the rest.

This is why mysticism sucks. It is dysfunctional. Everyone makes up whatever the hell they want, then accuses everyone else of being wrong and take personally any critique of their beliefs when they're shown to be nonsense.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: blaze2]
    #5516821 - 04/14/06 06:09 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

"its not saying all women should always be submissive to men. Its saying when you truly love someone and marry them then the woman should want do what the man asks her because of her love, not because its Gods laws."

bull. it doesnt say all that windy stuff with all those provisos. it says very plainly in gen 3:16, "thou shalt be under thy husband's power, and he shall have dominion over thee."

All the extra explanation you added is plain old not there.


--------------------
Namaste


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5520698 - 04/16/06 11:15 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Exactly thats why simple minded fools cannot understand the bible there is at least 3 or 4 layers to everything in teh bible(and all religious texts probrobly). The ancient Jews knew this and even devoloped a system for studying the bible called

Acronym "PARDS"
Pardes literally means a "Garden" or Arbor in Persian, but was borrowed into Hebrew to describe the paradise of the Garden of Eden. This story would seem to be about entering that garden, but in actuality the "Garden"/Pardes, was really a Hebrew Acronym! for the four kinds of religious interpretation. Here is the acronym:

Term Letter Term Meaning
1. P Peshat = Simple and often Literal meaning
2. R Ramez(Remez)= Metaphorical meaning, or "meaning hinted at in the text"(allegorical meaning)3
3. D Drash(derush) = Allegorical meaning, also "midrashic or homiletic meaning"(moral meaning)
4. S Sod = Secret, "mystical," or Esoteric meaning (anagogical)(Kanjin)

You cannot stop at the literal meaning, even though it the base that all further meanings build upon.

In this case.

God says " thou shalt be under thy husband's power, and he shall have dominion over thee"

But Do you think that God didn't get human love? That he didnt realize that someone whom you truly love you will do anything for them. If your best friend needed your help fixing a car for example would you tell him no, or help? its human nature to help each other.

most women are under their mans power and arent afraid to use their man for physical protection. Most men dont mind doing that either. its been that way since the beginning of humanity.

Again he did say women are under their husbands dominion, but you have to remember that the bible was not written by a woman it was written by a man. and men have a bad habit of writing what THEY think instead of what GOD tells them.

Open your eyes man. Even you who are against religion because you feel they lie, are falling for the lies. You let them define things for you, instead of defining things for yourself. peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Diploid]
    #5520784 - 04/16/06 11:44 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Why do you all think old people go to church? They know they are getting ready to die and its scary so they try to believe in heaven and jesus and shit to try and calme themselves.

95% of you non believers will be praying and proclaiming your love for jesus when you are on youre death beds.


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5520800 - 04/16/06 11:51 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Imagine there's no Heaven, it's easy if you try. No Hell below us. Above us, only sky.
--John Lennon


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Offlinevegitative
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5522664 - 04/16/06 09:17 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoslut said:
Why do you all think old people go to church? They know they are getting ready to die and its scary so they try to believe in heaven and jesus and shit to try and calme themselves.

95% of you non believers will be praying and proclaiming your love for jesus when you are on youre death beds.




If you really think that justifying belief because people who are afraid of death try to calm themselves through it, your blinding yourself horribly to the truth.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5526814 - 04/17/06 08:28 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RedNucleus said:
"Do you honestly think that all that killing would stop just because religion/spirituality/God was gone, or would the killing just be done for a different reason(s)....?"
.
If all that killing would be done for different reasons, then all those suicide bombings and september 11th would be done for different reasons. This is not the case.




I can see that it is not the case and I am not arguing it....


Let me remind what the actual topic/question of the thread is....
Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
So I will ask a hypothetical question just to see what it turns into.....
.
Do you think that the world would be a "better place" if there was no belief in a higher power, spirituality, or blind faith....?
.
Just speaking about general human moral here, do you think the changes in beliefs of ALL people in such a manner would be a positive, negative, or neutral (in general), and why....?





It is pretty funny when you ask a simple question that might trigger imaginative responses about there being no religion/spirituality/God,
and all you get is mostly (but not all) responses about how religion "is a bad bad thing" and responsible for everything bad....    :shake:

If it is so bad, with nothing good about it, what would it be like if it didn't exist....? 
Do you think things would be better or worse had religion/spirituality/God never "existed", and why...?


***He laughs as if the actual question might be answered...!*** :lol:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5527821 - 04/18/06 12:24 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Tell me the method you would use to vanish religion and I'll answer your question. Don't say if it never had existed because at some point it would, it's human nature. Anyway, it would be very difficult to not exist.

Edit: If we were to take this question extremely hypothetically, I'd say it would be about the same. People would kill in the name of something else(freedom), people wouldn't get killed for what they believe(wiccans),people wouldn't have religion to set a limit to how bad they can behave, we would have more awareness but more sensitive people, like it or not. In the very long term future, our race would adapt to it I suppose and we would be both very aware og things and also emotionally strong.


--------------------


Edited by Shroomerious (04/18/06 03:47 AM)


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5530743 - 04/18/06 07:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerious said:
Tell me the method you would use to vanish religion and I'll answer your question. Don't say if it never had existed because at some point it would, it's human nature. Anyway, it would be very difficult to not exist.




The method I would use is my imagination, just like you did in the following:
Quote:

Edit: If we were to take this question extremely hypothetically, I'd say it would be about the same. People would kill in the name of something else(freedom), people wouldn't get killed for what they believe(wiccans),people wouldn't have religion to set a limit to how bad  they can behave, we would have more awareness but more sensitive people, like it or not. In the very long term future, our race would adapt to it I suppose and we would be both very aware of things and also emotionally strong.




This is the kind of imaginative answer I was kinda~ looking for - from different points of view....!  :smile:  :thumbup:

I also agree with your first part, it *seems* to be human nature to think that there is something greater than thou that created us for a purpose/reason....
Making a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" in believing in something specific (as it relates to being with or without the existance of religion)....

Thus, there is always that great search for a "meaning to life", and the ever evading "why is there life" question....
There are various answers to each of these questions, it just depends on the philosophy/spirituality/religion you may or may not subscribe to....

I just get tired of the same-o-same-o- of people always finger-pointing/blaming religion/spirituality for everything bad in the world.... 
---To which most of those people don't seem to express their point of view in these types of threads for some reason...?  :shrug:

I am pretty sure that if you take religion/spirituality/blind faith out of the equation completely,
you would have different problems than there are now for different reasons....
Those problems **might** be on the same level as today's problems, and they very well **might** be worse....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5531581 - 04/18/06 10:37 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

yeah we're just speculating. i admit


--------------------
Namaste


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OfflinechemiKalz
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #6624280 - 03/01/07 12:10 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

there would be conflict between the atheists over what to call it, southpark :laugh:


--------------------


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: A world WITHOUT blind faith, Spirituality, a higher power, etc....? [Re: chemiKalz]
    #6625084 - 03/01/07 04:43 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

:smile:

(A blast from the past, it will sink pretty fast...!)



>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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