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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The difference between Faith and Blind Faith. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3854514 - 03/01/05 11:29 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

You must be a computer-baby. Sorry, I'm only a TV-baby and I didn't imprint your techno-etiquette. If you've attended to any of my other posts, you would be able to discern that "bully" really doesn't describe my on-screen persona. Perhaps, as I explained, there is my own explanation, not the one you are so determined to pin on me. But, if the big bad block letters hurt your sensibilities, I'm terribly sorry :blush:


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Offlinepopdewman
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Re: The difference between Faith and Blind Faith. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3854891 - 03/02/05 12:47 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

i think it was kierkegaard, or one of the pseudonyms he wrote under that argued that faith seems to be a a choice. A choice to embrace life in its entireity, both the goods and the bads. This means that despair is also major part of faith. Kierkegaard argues that faith is a belief in the absurd.. it leads to what reason points to as contradictions. however its this absurdness that allows faith to go beyond reason. It's an understanding and an appreciation for any given moment to be as it is. Good or bad. When one has chosen faith, one sees the universal and can truly appreciate life, and find harmony and contentness with any situation.

or something along those lines..


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: The difference between Faith and Blind Faith. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3854999 - 03/02/05 01:20 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

soon we won't even need to create the label of faith.  if we are in surrender, and we wrap ourselves and everyone else in acceptance, then the definition won't matter anymore.  the need will be gone.

As I look back, I see how useful it was to have that weight on my shoulders though, and it still is in a lot of ways.  its where the learning process really talkes hold.  and you're right, the variation between what you want and what reality gives will be greater the more you assume and the less you accept.

when you talk about things going our way, it is only the definition the we have of "our way" that is in our minds.  the less you assume and the mroe you accept, the less you are going to be concerned about "your way"

enlightenment in this case: to lighten the load :shrug: :grin:

say I'm driving, and I hit a red light,in fact I hit EVERY red light on the street.  if I have an assumption about the way things should be, then every red light will result in a possible negative emotional response. If I am not accepting of the red light, the same happens. 

If I don't expect to at least hit one green light, and I accept every red light, then my way is gone, and there is only what happened. 

what happened is what happened, that is no way but the way

good and bad go away for reality holds no emotion to it. 

acceptence and surrender..i like it!  :thumbup:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: The difference between Faith and Blind Faith. [Re: kaiowas]
    #3855516 - 03/02/05 03:35 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

But faith (so as I have found out to be,) is so much more than that....  Now, I am not even gonna~ pretent to think that I am some expert on all of this, as I am not....  I just know how it was before....  I LIVED by the "philosophy" of:

"Hope for the best, and expect the worse, that way you can never be disappointed..."

Nothing was ever really *wrong* before, as I 100% and COMPLETELY surrendered to my surroundings -just like you had said....  LOGICALLY, I had no other choice anyways....  :shrug:    ....    I am in my mid 30s, and I have lived with this "theory" that there could not be anything more than what I saw and what I knew about for at least 5-6 years now as it pondered thru my mind every once in a while....  (I ain't just saying that beause of my experience the other night either....  :noway: :smirk: )  I submitted to life's ways a long long time ago....  I was happy before....  I was ME, and I was one of many of the BILLIONS of people that are "happy" to be them....    I am not just making it up either, you can read ANY of the post I have ever made, and you can see my tone and "character of mood" from my words....  As I would expect that not a whole lot of people read my posts, I wouldn't expect that anybody would go back and look.... SSssoooooooo,  you will have to have faith that I am telling you the truth....  :wink:    Or not, your not really reading this....  :grin:

Being happy before, it has changed so much now....  I can say that I feel so alive right now that I am/feel 100% better now in "spirit"....  And logically, that makes no sense at all....  :confused:  I usually (unless I am fucked up :wink: -every once in a great while), am pretty good at math, I am observant, and think in *creative* ways....  Just simply put, "the way I do things"....    (:lol: the RIGHT way...!!!  :lol: )  J/K....  :tongue:  It is not at all my intentions at pointing at myself in front of you to lift myself up above anyone, - not at all....  There are MANY people here that are so friggin clever, or know their shit about a handfull of different things -- MANY people I admire here for many different reasons, many different shades of the rainbow....  I really do love that about this place....  I always "saw myself" as a Joe Shlub with a pocketful of knowledge, shining a certain color out according to my "mood -o- the day",  with life working out to about 90% of it to being pretty damn good....  I have had a few rough spots, but it has been pretty good for a few years now....    No complaints at all....    I had accepted and surrendered to life, thinking I had "figured "IT" ALLLLLLL out".... 

I ain't trying to convert no one, not my intents at all, I am just speaking my words for if anyone wishes to listen....  I would need to understand all of this first before I could pretend to give advise on it, plus, I am not a pushy person in any way....  I am perfectly fine with anybody believing in whatever they choose....  As *most* people that I hang out with NEVER once pushed their beliefs at me unless I asked....  There was one person that I asked not to be so pushy when in confidence so as to not cause a ruckus....  I wanted to get to know the PERSON behind the belief that was being forced at me....  That is MUCH more interesting sometimes, plus you get to observe their charactor for a little while as you get to know them, so as you know weather or not you want to understand about their beliefs....  :smile:    This particular person turned out to be no exception to that idea....    :heart:    I am glad I "took the time"....

kaiowas,
When I drive to work now, and when I hit a redlight, not only do I accept the fact that I have to stop and sit -as I always did, but NOW I am actually HAPPY to get the chance to sit there for a moment and look around and observe "what is happening"....  Looking at the colors of the sky in the morning, the shape of the clouds, the people around me....  100% AWARENESS to everything I can see and understand -and I do it with a freakin smile on my face, :lol: out of some sort of strong feeling of content -in every breath....  I used to HATE mornings....  I had not been to work ON TME for at least 3-4 years now, no kidding....  :eek:  My boss accepted it, as did I that I was allowed to be 1/2 hour'ish late without a phone call, after that I just had to call and listen to a little grumbling....  No problemo~, they can't fire me, what they gonna~ do....?  :shake:  How fuggin inconsiderate of me to not even conSIDER that they DEPEND on me to do my job, and be there on time....  I was letting the "friends" I work with down, as they "lead" by example of doing the "right thing", and put up with my shit because they "had" to....  :frown:

I was there on time last Monday for the first time....  Unfortunately, I was late yesterday because of all the snow I didn't know we were getting....  BUT, I was only 10-15mins late snow, ice and all, and that beat any of the last years start times for sure....!    The crazy thing of all is that  I WANT TO BE THERE ON TIME....!!???    :wtf:  ???        The other crazy/funny/unexpected thing is that it has not changed in intensity sinse the moment it I Experienced "FAITH"....  I didn't just surrender to life, I surrendered to Faith....  Why that would make SO MUCH difference, I have no CLUE in the world....    There are no "logical" ways for me to be able to explain it.... 

Holy bat crap, that got long...!!!!    I dunno~, I guess that I am rambling, A MUCHO~ LOTTA~....!  :lol:  :blah: :blah: :blah:

I dunno~, I have always heard the phraze "Stop and smell the roses"....    The thing is, you don't have to stop, ya~ just have to smell the roses....  You can do it every second of the day if you want....  in every breath you take....  :shrug:  I know, I know, whenever I say some happy shit like that, someone calls me a hippy....!  :lol: :tongue2:


ME....


:sun:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: The difference between Faith and Blind Faith. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3855682 - 03/02/05 04:37 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

jc, first i gotta say i like what your saying, the defrence between faith and blind faith is very good food for thought and i'll defanitly meditate on that thought, and share it with some people who i've been talking and i've been trying to explain my "faith", it's funny how i've been trying to say/think something and than someone here says exactly what i've been looking for, you put it into words you could say.

and phantomcat, i said before i'll say it again, you words are art, real eye candy, i get sucked into you post, almost hypnotizing, like a lava lamp + a book of poetry, put together, I love it, i have a real short attention span (too much tv.) and i'm a little slow in the head (too much cough syrup.) and yet i can read your entire post and know exactly what your talking about, and i agree with it, makes sence to me. you ashould write books. keep it up.  :thumbup:


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The difference between Faith and Blind Faith. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3855919 - 03/02/05 07:38 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)



Great classic rock!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The difference between Faith and Blind Faith. [Re: popdewman]
    #3856048 - 03/02/05 09:01 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I guess if you call it reliance upon the absurd or surrender or alternate to belief you may be agreeing that doing faith means stopping questioning and getting on with life.

and MarkostheGnostic, maybe I am born-again tv(1951)/computer baby, die daily baby, skip the caps baby; but you must admit the capslock has a long rap as well as a bad rap and I kinda like the anti-BS analogy about getting inflamed when the CAPITALS infect my eyes.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: The difference between Faith and Blind Faith. [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3856217 - 03/02/05 10:07 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Hey mang! I just wanted to respond to you this time and let you know that I DO read your posts, even if I don't respond. I didn't respond to the first one, so i thought I'd throw that out there for you.

Like JCoke said, your posts are intriguingly written. I think the only reason I don't respond to them is because by the time you're done there's nothing left to be said. :wink:

I can totally relate to the work thang... I got the same deal here. I can be late, and no one really cares... so it's gotten to the point where I have to have the willpower to just get my ass up and get here even though I know I could lie in bed for another half-hour.

P.S. Where are you located? Cuz the snow made me late yesterday too.. hehe. I'm in Mass.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: The difference between Faith and Blind Faith. [Re: JCoke]
    #3856224 - 03/02/05 10:11 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

JCoke said:
jc, first i gotta say i like what your saying, the defrence between faith and blind faith is very good food for thought and i'll defanitly meditate on that thought, and share it with some people who i've been talking and i've been trying to explain my "faith", it's funny how i've been trying to say/think something and than someone here says exactly what i've been looking for, you put it into words you could say.





Hey bud! I'm really glad you said that! You're like the third or fourth person who's told me that this post has helped them to understand something they've been trying to think through.

I'm so glad it's helping... I came up with this concept after trying to integrate an experience I had on mushrooms this past weekend. Somehow I "knew" this had to be posted... and now I know why. :smile:

Another perfect example of following the street signs on the road of life, and being led to solutionary situations. :smile:


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: The difference between Faith and Blind Faith. [Re: kaiowas]
    #3856236 - 03/02/05 10:15 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

kaiowas said:
enlightenment in this case: to lighten the load 





Awesome! I absolutely love how words we take for granted can be broken down into their basic components and reveal their true meaning in the process!

Here's another good one: Forgive. :smile: The fore indicates that it is something to be given BEFORE error is made in the first place.

There's tons of words that we can do this to.. it's great.

Without... commonly interpretted as to mean "lacking"... but it can also mean the opposite of within. :smile:

Fun times with words... hehe.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: The difference between Faith and Blind Faith. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3857058 - 03/02/05 01:48 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

> the difference between what you mean when you say "have faith" versus "embody faith".

I'm not sure that it is something I can put into words... kind of like asking what does blue smell like?


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: The difference between Faith and Blind Faith. [Re: Seuss]
    #3857229 - 03/02/05 02:36 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Okay... I'm not really sure how that's like asking what blue smells like, but if you can't you can't. *shrug*


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OfflineGomp
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Re: The difference between Faith and Blind Faith. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3857308 - 03/02/05 03:00 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

"There's tons of words that we can do this to.. it's great."

can do it with, all..
it is the 'language of light'. (got no clue why i make this post)
..now run along :wink:

"Have no faith, in Having faith"
-Unknown :P


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: The difference between Faith and Blind Faith. [Re: Gomp]
    #3857342 - 03/02/05 03:08 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Is imo about as negligible as warm water and luke warm water... All in the eyes of the beholder, or rather in our case in the mind. What's the difference between a zealot and a fanatic? (None really) The lines are blurred, don't be overly dogmatic, think for yourself and don't let others interpret religious texts for you.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The difference between Faith and Blind Faith. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3861634 - 03/03/05 11:01 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

trying to penetrate the mysteries by using linguistical references is not a bad approach expecially since what is being examined is the meaning of a word - "Faith".

so we can look at the habit of usage ot two related phrases:
"in good faith" and "in bad faith"

The first refers to a presentation that presumably relates to a train of events and circumstances in which what has been done along the way has been healthful to the presenter and the presentee.

The second refers to a presentation that presumably relates to a train of malevalent events and circumstances.

In both cases the term Faith relates to qualifying the track that the approaching train of events followed.

I like to think of it as a bridge or a track on a bridge which is how I would use it in any case to refer to the magical effort taken as a person bridges some gap in understanding and carries on his/her train of events or thought.

blind faith may be a peak from the side windows as the train passes over a magic bridge that had not been there a minute ago, and one can see nothing sensible.

or it may be a judgement against the traveller who uses such trains that pass over the void as if it were nothing.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: The difference between Faith and Blind Faith. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3865931 - 03/04/05 02:39 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Indeed, indeed.

A Ninja once said here recently: ?Faith [defined as letting go] is enlightenment?.
For ?letting go? is a process which involves releasing all forms of clinging [read: beliefs], and that also includes letting go of the mind.
When this takes place, all which is left is the simple reality of facts and observations imbued with childlike innocence, or ?Being-cognition? as Maslow depicts in the Farther Reaches of Human Nature.

The part that most people don?t like to hear, is that such ?letting go? involves the good just as much as the bad. Of course they are both equally illusory, yet people often try to have their cake and eat it too, as they think: ?hmm, okay from now on I will no longer attach myself to any beliefs that are of a negative caliber. [Example: ?The individual who just abruptly cut in front of my vehicle is an impolite and inconsiderate bastard!?]?. Neglecting the fact that ?bad things? actually happen because other things are being labeled as ?good?.
?They ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.?

In other words, because people are ?walking? on their own conceptual ground [ground of concepts/beliefs] of what they subjectively perceive to be ?good?, they are constantly subject to insecurity, for the world and it?s unfolding of reality is constantly changing and ever-fleeting. They expect stability from what is naturally unstable. Subtle insanity?

Directed to anyone who may answer:
Can you go about your life, without looking at events, situations, and things through screens of ?Good vs Bad?, or any other such dualistic thinking? If you can, then you will have genuine, inner peace. Even if only for one day, or one lifetime.



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: The difference between Faith and Blind Faith. [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3866881 - 03/04/05 10:06 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


They expect stability from what is naturally unstable. Subtle insanity?





Hahahaha... for real...

Quote:


Directed to anyone who may answer:
Can you go about your life, without looking at events, situations, and things through screens of ?Good vs Bad?, or any other such dualistic thinking? If you can, then you will have genuine, inner peace. Even if only for one day, or one lifetime.





I am learning to do this. Sometimes I still find myself labeling thing reactively, but I've gotten to the point where I stop myself in that same moment and say "No... things simply are as they are.. not good or bad, they just are."


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: The difference between Faith and Blind Faith. [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3945245 - 03/20/05 06:53 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Faith could be simple-minded, trusting, blind faith, or it could be definite confidence which cannot be destroyed. Blind faith has no inspiration. It is very naive. It is not creative, though not exactly destructive. It is not creative because your faith and yourself have never made any connection, any communication. You just blindly accepted the whole belief, very naively.

In the case of faith as confidence, there is a living reason to be confident. You do not expect that there will be a prefabricated solution mysteriously presented to you. You work with existing situations without fear, without any doubt about involving yourself. This approach is extremely creative and positive. If you have definite confidence, you are so sure of yourself that you do not have to check yourself. It is absolute confidence, real understanding of what is going on now, therefore you do not hesitate to follow other paths or deal in whatever way is necessary with each new situation.


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: The difference between Faith and Blind Faith. [Re: egghead1]
    #3945394 - 03/20/05 07:24 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Well said egghead! :thumbup:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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