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Re: In response to the recent thread about Blacks being inherently less intelligent than whites... [Re: zzripz]
    #14230348 -

zzripz said:
so whats this?
Quote:
I do believe that blacks in the US are less intelligent than whites in the average case.



You dont think THATblanket assertion of "black people" is racist?

You think YOU should be allowed to say that but I should get a warning of being banned for MY freedom of fukin speech?

And what is your CRITERIA for 'intellgence'? SOME 'good' white citizens who follow the orders of their psychopathic leaders?

Please define to me what you mean by 'intelligence'?


He says what he thinks intelligence is with this part of his post:
Quote:
I think IQ tests measure the ability of subjects to perform the tasks required of them, and that such results are generally correlated with intelligence- capability to complete tasks of that sort. 



I think that IQ tests can be used to predict certain abilities.  But the test does mot measure whether the person will have to wisdom to apply their abilities.  I think the black culture in general has embraced success in athletics and rap music over success in academic studies.  Is this intelligent?  I think that first and foremost, a person needs to worry about supporting themselves.

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Re: In response to the recent thread about Blacks being inherently less intelligent than whites... [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14230370 -

OK. Who hear knows about The New Jim Crow?

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Re: In response to the recent thread about Blacks being inherently less intelligent than whites... [Re: zzripz]
    #14230749 -

zzripz said:
so whats this?
Quote:
I do believe that blacks in the US are less intelligent than whites in the average case.



You dont think THATblanket assertion of "black people" is racist?



No, I've already said this.

What justification do you have of suggesting such a thing? Incidentally, it was not a blanket statement as you suggest, but rather limited to the average US black and US white.

As explained earlier, the evidence backs up these contentions: black students in the US do worse than white students on tests of reasoning capability that make attempts to be relatively culturally neutral and that are objective measures of reasoning capability.

This belief is not racist; it is not saying average US blacks are less intelligent because they are black, nor even saying they are less intelligent than average US whites at birth, in a controlled environment from parents of similar health and nature, or even that the distinction persists if corrected for socio-economimc disparities between the groups measured.

Like I said: you can ignorantly insist every group is the same no matter what, but that isn't what the evidence says, and it isn't very logical.  Either way, the belief that differences do exist between populations defined in part by race does not suppose dislike or devaluing any of these populations: Nothing you've said has demonstrated how my beliefs are racist or indicative of racist thinking.


Quote:
You think YOU should be allowed to say that but I should get a warning of being banned for MY freedom of fukin speech?


a) No one's saying you can't say stuff like that, they're saying you can't say that here- at least without tieing it to the subject (which it wasn't, it was an irrelevant personal appeal).  Go bitch about me to passer-bys on the street or rent some billboard space if you like- not my business.

b) If I believed what yous seem to presume, that you should be banned for excercising your "freedom of fukin speech", or insulting me, I would have banned your ass myself.  Instead I hit the report button and let Diploid, an uninvolved moderator, handle it as he does the rest of this forum.  Your bitching at me seems ignorant of the fact that if I wasn't concerned with fairness and the perceptions of fairness in others, including yourself, I would have simply banned you myself and not had to have entertained your replies at all.

Instead you got a warning by a disinterested mod- cry my a river.  If you have a problem with that then talk to Diploid or the administration.  Neither answer to me.

Quote:
And what is your CRITERIA for 'intellgence'? SOME 'good' white citizens who follow the orders of their psychopathic leaders?


I already said what I think IQ tests measure:  Intelligence is the ability to understand relationships between things and to complete tasks the subject wishes to complete, through mental exertion: in the context of the IQ test it is that quality which is proportional to, or correlated with, the capability to complete the tasks required by the IQ test.  With an IQ test, it probably makes the most sense to define the intelligence measured relative to the actual reasoning required to complete the test- at least in the absence of a more complete understanding or definition of what intelligence is in the general sense.

I don't know how you determine I believe  " 'good' white citeizens " exist as opposed to black, in general or specific, but this seems like more straw man arguments- I note that your the only one who attached value judgments to the groups discussed and races mentioned, not I.  I note you've not defended your prior argument that supposes I think people are intelligent due to dropping bombs on people and so forth- what any of this has to do with the subject is unclear.

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Re: In response to the recent thread about Blacks being inherently less intelligent than whites... [Re: zzripz]
    #14231007 -

zzripz said:
so whats this?
Quote:
I do believe that blacks in the US are less intelligent than whites in the average case.



You dont think THATblanket assertion of "black people" is racist?

No, because the data backs it up; and, if you read carefully, you'll notice that he said Blacks in the US, not Black people in general.


zzripz said:
You think YOU should be allowed to say that but I should get a warning of being banned for MY freedom of fukin speech?

Yes, because what he said is not against the rules; you made personal comments about him, which is against the rules here. Also, this is not a democracy, it's a privately-owned forum, so you have no freedom of speech here.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (04/03/11 08:10 PM)

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Re: In response to the recent thread about Blacks being inherently less intelligent than whites... [Re: Poid]
    #14231943 -

I just find it killin how someone who calls blacks INAMERICA (gochya,) are on average dumb will be upset when someone says something about their person they have to report them. I mean how would you feel if someone said you were not intelligent, or less intelligent than yourself?......hmmmm? How would you feel? I am not waiting for a rationalization which i EXPECT. I am wanting an honest answer.

I remember seeing the Ricky Lake show many years ago, and they had WHITE SUPREMACISTS on the stage and one actually had the nerve to say to the audeince of mostly black people that they were not intelligent, and I saw hurt on many faces, as would ne natural to be insulted.

Any of you smart enough to know who invented the IQ test--this dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Binet

I do not trust that test at all because I --being a psychedelic experiencer who is known for looking a little deeper than IQ tests for measuring intelligence do not trust this dominant western 'developed' culture which believes it is the most intelligent. Quite ironic in a world that is being destroyed by the same mindset, no? And please dont say that that has nothin to do with this. THAT:what2: is not intelligent

Edited by zzripz (04/03/11 06:34 PM)

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Re: In response to the recent thread about Blacks being inherently less intelligent than whites... [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #14231992 -

zzripz said:
I just find it killin how someone who calls blacks INAMERICA (gochya,) are on average dumb will be upset when someone says something about their person they have to report them.

It's not about being upset, it's about following the rules which were set up for this forum.


zzripz said:
I mean how would you feel if someone said you were not intelligent, or less intelligent than yourself?......hmmmm? How would you feel?

How would I feel if someone said I am less intelligent than myself? I'd fucking laugh.


zzripz said:
I remember seeing the Ricky Lake show many years ago, and they had WHITE SUPREMACISTS on the stage and one actually had the nerve to say to the audeince of mostly black people that they were not intelligent, and I saw hurt on many faces, as would ne natural to be insulted.

It's not against the rules here to insult a group of people; BTW, johnm214 was not insulting Blacks.


zzripz said:
I do not trust that test at all because I --being a psychedelic experiencer who is known for looking a little deeper than IQ tests for measuring intelligence do not trust this dominant western 'developed' culture which believes it is the most intelligent. Quite ironic in a world that is being destroyed by the same mindset, no? And please dont say that that has nothin to do with this. THAT:what2: is not intelligent

I think you have somewhat of a point here--still, though, if we go by IQ test scores, American Blacks are generally less intelligent. This does not mean that they are inherently less intelligent, though.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (12/02/12 03:35 AM)

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Re: In response to the recent thread about Blacks being inherently less intelligent than whites... [Re: zzripz]
    #14232180 -

zzripz said:
I just find it killin how someone who calls blacks INAMERICA (gochya,) are on average dumb will be upset when someone says something about their person they have to report them.


why?  What is the point of this declaration?

Please do not continue to mischarecterize my argument: I have not said blacks in america are dumb, and you've not shown this a consequence of anything I have said.  What I spoke of were blacks in america's intelligence realtive to white americans and the sufficiency of their performance on intelligence to inform on this subject.

Quote:
I mean how would you feel if someone said you were not intelligent, or less intelligent than yourself?......hmmmm? How would you feel? I am not waiting for a rationalization which i EXPECT. I am wanting an honest answer.


For the future, you can forgo these kind of preemptory challenges to things I've not said.  Your expectations aren't relevant to this discussion, though the nature of them seems to reveal how you would make the missteps you've exhibited in this thread: you presume that which isn't known to you, and procede on those grounds.

Assuming the question is how I'd feel if someone said I wasn't intelligent, the answer would depend on the nature of the exchange.  If it was a person I respected I would be sad and disapointed with myself and curious why he thinks so, if it was a person who I don't respect or who I think is emotional and illogical, I would presume it was simply an insult and wouldn't pay the specific allegation any mind unless supported.  If it was in another context I would likely feel different than either of these two.



Quote:
I remember seeing the Ricky Lake show many years ago, and they had WHITE SUPREMACISTS on the stage and one actually had the nerve to say to the audeince of mostly black people that they were not intelligent, and I saw hurt on many faces, as would ne natural to be insulted.


What is your point?  I was not arguing whether any particular group would be hurt or not, I was arguing what reality is.  I'm not sure what various group's perception and response to that reality, or my argument as to it, has to do with anything.  You seem to appeal to emotionalism over reason- or else I simply don't see what your point is.


Quote:
Any of you smart enough to know who invented the IQ test--this dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Binet


Yes, I am aware of Binet and the binet intelligence scale.  I don't know what this factoid has to do with anything, nor whether someone is aware of this person, but I'll accept your assessment of me as "smart enough to know who binet is" regardless.


Quote:
I do not trust that test at all because I --being a psychedelic experiencer who is known for looking a little deeper than IQ tests for measuring intelligence do not trust this dominant western 'developed' culture which believes it is the most intelligent. Quite ironic in a world that is being destroyed by the same mindset, no? And please dont say that that has nothin to do with this. THAT:what2: is not intelligent


This seems to be the only portion of your reply in which you've attempted to rebut any part of my discussion and yet here you simply declare bare conclusions.  Your naked claims are not helpful: that you regard yourself as someone who "looks a little deeper than IQ tests for measuring intelligence" is irrelevant.  What you look to for intelligence has nothing to do with the meaning or sufficiency of intelligence tests for measuring any paricular aspect of intelligence.

I see once again you have preemptively responded to a counter argument that you imagined yourself and then replied to as if it was I who said it.  Unfortunately that response is yet another bare conclusory statement with no justification at all.


You have completely failed to even make an argument for how
a) I am racist
b) I am a white supremacist
c) My writings or opinions are indicative of such
d) intelligence tests are arbitrary or otherwise not useful for revealing relative intelligence
e) supporting the various claims you've made.
f) what dropping bombs on people has to do with intelligence or my argument (and the other straw man arguments you've made)

You spend a good deal of time assuring us that you are a deep, intelligent, person who knows many things, but very little (none) time telling us what that has to do with anything and justifying any of your many claims.

Plainly: what justification do you have for the things said in this and your previous posts?  You'

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Re: In response to the recent thread about Blacks being inherently less intelligent than whites... [Re: johnm214]
    #14232415 -

i didn't read the thread

but what does how much melanin is being produced in the skin(which is what determines skin color) have anything to do with how smart someone is?

that's like saying having moles and freckles also affect your intelligence


--------------------
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines

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Re: In response to the recent thread about Blacks being inherently less intelligent than whites... [Re: bigmike7104]
    #14232494 -

bigmike7104 said:
that's like saying having moles and freckles also affect your intelligence


Skin color is being treated here as indicative of different cultural heritages.

"Black" skin -> sub-saharan africa, or Nubia or what not. In the discussion at hand, it seems this is being discussed as filtered through the American black experience.

Kinda impossible to discuss it otherwise.


--------------------
He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.

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Re: In response to the recent thread about Blacks being inherently less intelligent than whites... [Re: Kid_Orgo]
    #14235009 -

Oh right, my post was censored...? Alright alright I get it. Why bother right?

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Re: In response to the recent thread about Blacks being inherently less intelligent than whites... [Re: zzripz]
    #14240655 -

You have failed to respond to any of my criticisms nor have you justified your assertions of racism, white supremacism.

Plainly: you appear to have no basis for the things you say and abuse the phenomena of racism to justify your apparently unsupportable opinions.

If you have some basis for any of the crap you say, then provide it.  Otherwise, the philosophy forum isn't the best place to be making baseless claims and whining when your called on them.

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Re: In response to the recent thread about Blacks being inherently less intelligent than whites... [Re: johnm214]
    #14242444 -

I don't believe that any certain race is genetically smarter than another, but I do believe that some races are DEFINITELY smarter than others. This is simply a result of the environment someone grows up in. If you were raised in the projects by a single mother with 5 other kids to look after, there is no doubt that your chances of a successful life are greatly diminished. I don't care if your skin is purple, this is fact.


--------------------
DanceSafe | Voluntaryism

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Re: In response to the recent thread about Blacks being inherently less intelligent than whites... [Re: LSDylan]
    #14258784 -

I think part of intelligence is genetic.
Just like body size/muscle mass is genetic.
I think most black people plateau sooner then whites or other races for that matter.
However I do not think that any race is inferior/superior to any other, but I do think that all races evolved and developed the traits they did for survival reasons.


--------------------
The road goes on forever and the party never ends......

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