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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
Loc: New Jersey U.S.
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Intelligent Life
    #2131659 - 11/24/03 03:55 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

You know what? i was really stoned yesterday and my friend kept telling a story about a huge bee hive he came across. I started thinking about how bees build this big structure out of mud, with all these paths and what not. Which led me to question what do we consider intelligent life. Yeah sure, we use a distinct verbal language to communicate and can do pretty much anything with the tools we have built. But ants and bees build homes and structures just like we do just on a smaller scale. In other words imagine a world where bees and ants were physically bigger than us? Could we even survive? Instead of buildings and houses there would be huge bee hives and Ant hills. all across Earth. And im pretty sure bees and Ants have a way of comunicating with each other so are they really so different from us?? Now we might be the most intellectual in the bunch but we really cant say we are the only intelligent life on Earth.


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Edited by Spokesman (11/24/03 04:56 AM)


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Intelegent Life [Re: Spokesman]
    #2131660 - 11/24/03 03:57 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

LOL @ "Intelegent Life"

You're too much, chief!


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Intelegent Life [Re: Spokesman]
    #2131662 - 11/24/03 03:57 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I have a theory that bees and ants have a sort of collective consciousness, kind of like the borg on Star Trek. They don't have individual awareness, but have a group awareness which allows a hive or colony to function as one.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Intelegent Life [Re: silversoul7]
    #2131671 - 11/24/03 04:04 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

You mean kind of like Republicans?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: Intelegent Life [Re: Swami]
    #2131681 - 11/24/03 04:12 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Ya, like Republicans. :grin:


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
Loc: New Jersey U.S.
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Intelegent Life [Re: Sclorch]
    #2131720 - 11/24/03 04:58 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:
LOL @ "Intelegent Life"

You're too much, chief! 




LOL, sorry about that, its 3 am, maybe  i should get some sleep and stop thinking about bees and ants right. :lol:


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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
Loc: New Jersey U.S.
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Intelegent Life [Re: silversoul7]
    #2131723 - 11/24/03 05:02 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I have a theory that bees and ants have a sort of collective consciousness, kind of like the borg on Star Trek. They don't have individual awareness, but have a group awareness which allows a hive or colony to function as one.




Could be, but there are diffrent classes in these colonies so it would be hard to belive that the queen bee and the workers are the same conciousness. But its an intresting speculation. Anything that helps us understand republican behaivior a little more cant hurt a topic.


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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Intelegent Life [Re: Sclorch]
    #2131731 - 11/24/03 05:06 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Like all the people on these boards who supposedly go to 'collage'.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 1,301
Loc: Planet Irk
Last seen: 11 months, 23 days
Re: Intelegent Life [Re: bert]
    #2131816 - 11/24/03 07:06 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

In other words imagine a world where bees and ants were physically bigger than us? Could we even survive?




Very easily, remember humans are very good at hunting a species till we have totaly destroyed them. We have done it before and we can do it again.


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Fighting the man the best way I can.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Intelegent Life [Re: EvilGir]
    #2131867 - 11/24/03 08:55 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Let's get ready to r-u-m-b-l-e.

In this corner, weighing in at 65 kilos: soldier ant #102,333,876...

And on the other corner, weighing in at 95 kilos including flamethrower, The Exterminator.

*applause*


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Intelegent Life [Re: silversoul7]
    #2131883 - 11/24/03 09:13 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Collective behaviour in termites, ants etc. is thought to occur through a phenomenon called "stigmergy". Stigmergy is a kind of indirect communication in which you do not have a sender and a receiver in the traditional sense, but instead participants communicate through modifying the state of the environment.

So, while building a nest, any ant that will find the nest in state A, will try to bring it to a state B, which is one step closer to the final state. Then the next ant will sense that and will add to the nest to bring it to state C, and so on... If the nest is one step away from being complete and the state is slightly modified so that it is not recognizable, ants will not rectify it but will start building from scratch.

This does not require any sort of consciousness or central co-ordination of actions (however it does not really disprove the possible existence of consciousness either).


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Offlineergot
MydriasicVisionary
Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 685
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: Intelegent Life [Re: raytrace]
    #2131949 - 11/24/03 10:18 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Has any one ever witnessed flocks of birds make split-second shifts within their flight as a whole? What explains this? Literally, it'slike they all alter their entire direction at the same moment... I've always wondered if it was a collective consciousness...


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"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Intelegent Life [Re: ergot]
    #2131961 - 11/24/03 10:25 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

A guy from Sante Fe developed an artifical lifeform called 'boids' to test flocking and swarming behaviour. Apparently there are only a few simple rules about keying off others and no mysterious group consciousness is necessary to explain the movement. (Why do I always have to be the bad guy and burst the bubble?)


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlineergot
MydriasicVisionary
Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 685
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: Intelegent Life [Re: Swami]
    #2131982 - 11/24/03 10:34 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Heh. Nope, no bubble burst... if fact I am grateful for the knowledge you have bestowed upon me.


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"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho


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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 1,301
Loc: Planet Irk
Last seen: 11 months, 23 days
Re: Intelegent Life [Re: ergot]
    #2134280 - 11/25/03 07:24 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

" Collective behaviour in termites, ants etc. is thought to occur through a phenomenon called "stigmergy". Stigmergy is a kind of indirect communication in which you do not have a sender and a receiver in the traditional sense, but instead participants communicate through modifying the state of the environment. "

Hmm well in ants i did remember reading somewhere that that communicate through a chemicel style internet.


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Fighting the man the best way I can.


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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Intelegent Life [Re: Swami]
    #2134344 - 11/25/03 09:09 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I would suggest a book titled 'Emergence' for people here who want to understand how ant colonies work and other systems like human cities spring up. It's kind of a pop-science book that most people here should be able to grasp easily and it is an entertaining read.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Intelegent Life [Re: EvilGir]
    #2134351 - 11/25/03 09:20 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Ants do leave traces of chemicals (pheromones) so that other ants can follow these trails and find the source of food, but I was refering to nest building. Stigmergy has been observed in certain species of termites, so generalization might not be appropriate. Maybe ants have a slightly different mechanism.


Edited by raytrace (11/25/03 09:26 AM)


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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
Loc: New Jersey U.S.
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Intelegent Life [Re: raytrace]
    #2135591 - 11/25/03 07:36 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Wow, life is f*@*ng crazy man!.... I mean if a superior race of aliens was hovering over the cities of the earth they would probably be like "What kinda of insect colonies have infested this planet!"...I mean im pretty sure that ant colonies dont have one ant that goes up to the top of the ant hill at night looks at the stars and asks for the reason of its existance but their general behaivior when look at on an alien point of view is not that diffrent from human behaivior as far as building homes and cities. Not to mention how bees and Ants seem to have their own goverments.


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OfflineScarfmeister
Thrill Seeker
Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 8,127
Loc: The will to power
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Intelligent Life [Re: Spokesman]
    #2135725 - 11/25/03 08:26 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Humans are the only intelligent lifeforms on this planet. Dolphins etc are pretty damn stupid by comparison.
Dont give me that crap about different forms of intelligence. Animals are ruled by their instincts and that shall be their undoing.


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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
Divine Hermit of the Everything
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Re: Intelligent Life [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #2135763 - 11/25/03 08:42 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Untill recently humans have been ruled by their instincts. I argue that we still are; we still send and recieve chemical signals that tell others about our physical condition and we still are driven hard by our instincts to make. Does clothing and cars make us civilized? I argue not. Without government (and arguably with) people would strive to kill those that oppose them, or differ from them. I argue that Dolphins can be judged on their own intelligence scale; who are we to define what is or is not intelligence? If we look at the world around us, I would say that we are the stupid ones. We grow beyond a managable population, we misuse our resources, we kill of the pleasure of killing, we destroy the earths topography etc etc.

Humans are the only intelligent lifeforms on this planet. Dolphins etc are pretty damn stupid by comparison.
Dont give me that crap about different forms of intelligence. Animals are ruled by their instincts and that shall be their undoing.


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