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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
There isn't intelligent life on other planets * 2
    #1077930 - 11/22/02 08:48 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

It's true, we are the only intelligent species in the universe for the moment. Although there are infinite numbers of other planets out there there is also an infinitely vast amount of time, and 100 000 years (aprox. time H. sapiens sapiens has been around) is only a tiny window in the universal scale of things, and the window on technologically advanced humans is miniscule. The odds of two intelligent species capable of space travel existing at the same time are slim and the odds of them being close enough to meet are even slimmer. gargargar

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OfflineGrav
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 4,454
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Dogomush] * 2
    #1078147 - 11/22/02 09:51 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I thought nobody really knew how humans came to be.. or life for that matter

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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Dogomush] * 2
    #1078221 - 11/22/02 10:32 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

i agree. good post, but get ready for some intense objections. (i started a topic similar to this a few months back) My main point was if you can't prove intelligent life exists, then it doesn't. By saying intelligent life exists without some kind of proof, then it's like me sayig "there is a 3 tittied lion right now in your bedroom sitting right behind you". hell, this statement might be true very true for one of you shroomites, but i can't say it without evidence. this same logic IMHO applies to intelligent life in the universe no matter what the statistical estimations are.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: chodamunky] * 2
    #1078369 - 11/22/02 11:37 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

then it's like me sayig "there is a 3 tittied lion right now in your bedroom sitting right behind you".

*Looks around nervously* Your s-c-a-r-i-n-g me, man!


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: chodamunky] * 2
    #1078384 - 11/22/02 11:45 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

well this is where logic comes to a fallacy. to say we cant turn to water does it mean we cant? people probably never thought that tv's or anything like that would exist but they do now. just by saying "because we cant see it, that means its not there" doesnt me its not. sure its not in your view. but say you were to open up the valve in your brain for the perception of space time and dimensions you might very well see that object. galaxies have like galaxies, so why wouldnt planets have like planets? we have families, so why doesnt the earth? maybe we have brothers and sisters out there with just as much knowledge as us asking the same kinds of questions you are. the truth is you dont know. and very well in time what we cant see will be seen. maybe they are waiting on you to believe in your own eyes and see them.

:P


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What?

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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Dogomush] * 2
    #1078395 - 11/22/02 11:50 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I'm usually a skeptic, but life on other planets doesn't seem nearly as improbable as things like souls, chi, and all that stuff the brain is able to come up with. But I would definitely take the position that intelligent life hasn't been to our planet recently, as there simply isn't any evidence of this. You might argue: "but there's no evidence of life in other galaxies either!" Well, the difference is that we've been able to observe life on/around earth.


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Dogomush] * 2
    #1078531 - 11/23/02 01:16 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I think life is widespread, seeing how rapidly it colonised the earth I don't think there'll be any problem finding microscopic life, intelligent life is another matter. Looking at our own species it doesn't appear intelligence improves your chances of survival. The dinosaurs lasted 140 million years, humans are more or less fucked after just 200 years of industrialisation. Following the path we're going down now we'll be lucky to last another 1000 years.

WIth the new evidence about how suddenly life formed on the early earth a lot of scientists are theorising that life was brought here during comet and meteorite showers.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Offlinepostanaldrip
human alien
Male
Registered: 07/31/01
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Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Dogomush] * 2
    #1078568 - 11/23/02 01:36 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

"there is also an infinitely vast amount of time"

What about the dimensions in which time ceases to exist?




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"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC

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Offlinepostanaldrip
human alien
Male
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Xlea321] * 2
    #1078592 - 11/23/02 01:53 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

" I don't think there'll be any problem finding microscopic life, intelligent life is another matter. Looking at our own species it doesn't appear intelligence improves your chances of survival. The dinosaurs lasted 140 million years, humans are more or less fucked after just 200 years of industrialisation."


How do you define intelligence? If its the ability to sustain life than isnt every species on Earth intelligent? As far as im concerned, the mosquito that found the 1 square inch of skin that I failed to coat with OFF is as intelligent as myself. Humanity on the whole is arrogant as fuck regaurding its intelligence and surperiority to all other living organisms. This mode of thinking is and will continue to be our demise. Im not picking on you or anything. I actually agree with a lot of what you had to say.


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"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC

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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Dogomush] * 2
    #1078605 - 11/23/02 02:05 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Until/unless we somehow manage to explore "the Everything" in its entirety, we cannot say "there is intelligent life on other planets" OR "there is not intelligent life on other planets."

"Not enough information."

We haven't checked all the planets, so we simply can't say either way. I love to believe we're not the only ones going through this beautiful madness, though :smile:


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Offlinepostanaldrip
human alien
Male
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Strumpling] * 2
    #1078617 - 11/23/02 02:11 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I agree. We know of less than 1000th of 1 percent of existence and reality. We are not as intelligent as we think we are.


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"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: postanaldrip] * 2
    #1078992 - 11/23/02 08:01 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Good point post. I don't think there's much doubt that the dinosaurs will outlive humanity so in that sense they were more successful.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: chodamunky] * 2
    #1079076 - 11/23/02 09:37 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

It's more like you saying "there isn't a blue ruler lying on Baby_Hitler's computer desk right now.".


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This space for rent

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 2
    #1079089 - 11/23/02 09:56 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Is it moral to go back in time and kill baby Hitler before the holocaust? Or at least spank him with a blue ruler?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: postanaldrip] * 2
    #1079093 - 11/23/02 10:00 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

We know of less than 1000th of 1 percent of existence and reality

just think about what u said, how could we possibly know this statistic you regurgitated forth to us?

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InvisibleTinMan
Stranger

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 2,956
Loc: Russia
Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: chodamunky] * 2
    #1079106 - 11/23/02 10:15 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

The key word is "infinite". There is infinite space, an infinite amount of time, and infinite dimensions. I can't back up my theory that other intelligent life exists beyond our planet, but I believe it. With infinite dimensions, there could be life that we didn't even know existed right under our nose...

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Invisiblexnevermore
? Ω?

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 282
Loc: The Twilight Zone
Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 2
    #1079181 - 11/23/02 11:09 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

It's more like you saying "there isn't a blue ruler lying on Baby_Hitler's computer desk right now."
There isn't one, as far as I'm concerned. I have no reason to believe it's there unless I see some proof of it being there.


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- xnevermore

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Dogomush] * 2
    #1079204 - 11/23/02 11:27 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

there are infinite numbers of other planets out there

Thats a lot of planets... so many in fact, that there can be room for nothing else... including life.  :smile:

It would be much better to state that there may be a lot of other planets out there...


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineLOPHO.MP
looker

Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 101
Loc: Santa Cruz CA.
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: chodamunky] * 2
    #1079315 - 11/23/02 12:23 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)



Good fuckin point chodamunky!!!!!!

How can you know the percent of something if you do not know the total?!!! That is dumb shit!!!


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---Still Searching---

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Anonymous

Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: LOPHO.MP] * 2
    #1079369 - 11/23/02 12:53 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

If there's an infinite amount of space and time then there is an infinite amount of possiblilities. The probability of there being other intelligent life out there must be infinite too.

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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Xlea321]
    #1079402 - 11/23/02 01:14 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

In reply to:

dinosaurs will outlive humanity so in that sense they were more successful.



Dude, humans are a species, dinosaurs are quite a few thousand species. It's a bad comparison. Dinosaurs vs mammals would make more sense, or maybe sauropods vs primates. I agree with your point, though. There is no reason intelligence like ours which wants to or can travel between stars has to evolve. There is no peak of evolution, things just keep changing.

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OfflineDrubuShrume
EAT ME - I'm afungi

Registered: 05/14/02
Posts: 449
Loc: Right where I need to be
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: postanaldrip]
    #1079480 - 11/23/02 01:53 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

"there is also an infinitely vast amount of time"

What about the dimensions in which time ceases to exist?


The dimension in which time ceases to exist is known as death. Time is a measurement of life, uised to organize things that would seem chaotic without a scale of measurement. Time in astronomy is still a measurement of life. The Native Americans used the astronomy to develop a calender, in which they organized their lives.

For time timr cease to exist is to let eternity rule, which is only when one dies. Everyone experiences eternity, but one cannot experience it in life due to time.


We need to develop intelligent life on Earth before looking too the skies. Some would argue that YES, THERE ARE INTELLIGENT PEOPLE OUT THERE. Hoever, SOCIETY is what represents Earth, and SOCIETY IS NOT NATURALLY INTELLIGENT. (NATRUALLY MEANING NATURE). We live to simplify our lives, rather than living to live, we live to do nothing. Get something else to do it. There are intelligent Doctors and Physicists and abstract artists and deep thinkers but the numbers of slobs and the destruction of Earth through industrialization and post-industrialization shall but limit the time left for ANY LIFE on Earth and how far into space we can get.

Nature is what has brought us life. We have brought nature technology, and it conflicts. The pollution and nuclear tech will detroy the planet before we can contact possible life in the Universe.

Oh well, its too far along to go back. I will just eat my shrooms, connect to myself and the Earth's Spirit and know that things will be okay.


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AH HA....

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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
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Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Dogomush]
    #1079490 - 11/23/02 02:00 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

"Although there are infinite numbers of other planets out there there is also an infinitely vast amount of time"

Many physicists will disagree with this.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleXibalba
Stranger
Registered: 05/13/00
Posts: 2,114
Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Dogomush]
    #1079503 - 11/23/02 02:06 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know where some of these people get the idea that 'absence of proof = proof of absence' is either logical or scientific, because it's neither.

You can say we are -probably- the only intelligent species in the universe, but to state it as a fact... I have to ask; who died and made you God?
The number of planets and the amount of time in this universe are both finite. Nothing can be said of other universes because they are forever outside our knowledge. And realistically, nothing can even be said about the contents of other galaxies, since their distance (3 million light years for the closest) is prohibitive to travel or communication even assuming we had science-fiction level spacecraft technology. There are believed to be 125 billion galaxies in the universe. That works out to something like 2,500,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars. 2,499,999,999,999,999,999,999 of which we have never been to.

I'd be reluctant to say there wasn't a 3-tittied lion out there somewhere.

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Offlinepostanaldrip
human alien
Male
Registered: 07/31/01
Posts: 676
Loc: Earth
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: chodamunky]
    #1079505 - 11/23/02 02:07 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

youre right. its probably more like 1 millionth of 1 percent. We dont even know everything about the planet earth. And there are billions of planets out there, along with countless dimensions. So, make the conclusiion for yourself.


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"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC

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Offlinepostanaldrip
human alien
Male
Registered: 07/31/01
Posts: 676
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: DrubuShrume]
    #1079517 - 11/23/02 02:11 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

"The dimension in which time ceases to exist is known as death."

So youre saying that every night when I have lucid dreams and can manipulate reality, that Im dead? I sure know Im not in the third dimension anymore, and Im certainly not dead.


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"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC

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Offlinepostanaldrip
human alien
Male
Registered: 07/31/01
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: LOPHO.MP]
    #1079524 - 11/23/02 02:14 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

"How can you know the percent of something if you do not know the total?!!! That is dumb shit!!!"


It was just a figure that I threw out there to get the point across that we know relatively nothing on a universal scale. It appears that you are the "dumb shit" .


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"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC

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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Phluck]
    #1079578 - 11/23/02 02:36 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

"Although there are infinite numbers of other planets out there there is also an infinitely vast amount of time"
Many physicists will disagree with this.


Yeah, that may be true but I argue that 100 000 years is only a tiny tiny moment on the grand scale of things.

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Offlinepostanaldrip
human alien
Male
Registered: 07/31/01
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Xibalba]
    #1079624 - 11/23/02 02:55 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

"I'd be reluctant to say there wasn't a 3-tittied lion out there somewhere."


Nice!! :grin: 


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"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Swami]
    #1079679 - 11/23/02 03:16 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Fool... You can't kill baby Hitler.


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This space for rent

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Xibalba]
    #1079703 - 11/23/02 03:33 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I read an interesting theory that stated basically that the first intelligent species in any given galaxy would probably colonize all the planets in that galaxy capable of sustaining life before the second one even came into being.

I believe there is a pretty good chance that we are the first and only intelligent species currently in this galaxy, but probably not in the universe.


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This space for rent

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OfflineAlan Stone
Corpus

Registered: 11/23/02
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1079903 - 11/23/02 05:39 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

If you believe there are an infinite amount of planets and stars, the probability of conditions being right to bring forth intelligent life (which not all scientists will probably agree on) increases significantly.
Time is a human invention if you ask me.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Alan Stone]
    #1079921 - 11/23/02 05:48 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

of course "time" is a human invention...... just like every other word we're using here on the forum.

Its simply a word we use to describe the phenomenon of "everything" not happening "all at once," once-again more words we made up, though.

Dude we made everything up.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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OfflineAlan Stone
Corpus

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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Strumpling]
    #1079954 - 11/23/02 05:59 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, we made up language. But do you believe there is no more than linguistic terms than the terms themselves? Did we invent the sea because we call it sea? I'd rather think of it as discovering things. But time IS made up, IMO.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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OfflineFcuerkt
insane visionary

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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Alan Stone]
    #1079992 - 11/23/02 06:27 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know why everybody is saying the universe is infinite, the jury is still out. Current observations indicate that the universe is expanding, and pretty fucking big, but still finite.

I do not believe that time is a human invention, if all humans died time would still continue to exist, wouldn't it? Dogs obey time, radioactive isotopes obey time, but it doesn't necessarily have to apply to everything, or be the final limiting dimension for the entire universe.

Back on the subject of inifinity, I can't imagine a place better than the Shroomery to find a group of minds able to conceptualize infinity. Or at least get pretty close.  :smile:

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OfflineGhostPanther
herbsman

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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Dogomush]
    #1080006 - 11/23/02 06:35 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

well considering there are more stars in the universe than all the grains of sand on all the beaches in the world, I personally believe that there is intelligent life out there, just because of those odds. you are right when you say 100,000 years isnt a lot of time in the universes perspective, but even if the right environmental conditions are met on a planet to produce life, that may be only one out of 15-20 planets in that solar system, but the sheer size and number of objects in this universe is not comprehendable(sp?) which means that somewhere there is life. or think of it like this, what are the chances of a planet developing the exact same as earth when there are a uncountable number of planets in the universe - that is most definitely a chance. Also, who says life has to be capable of space travel to be intelligent? we havent even set foot on another planet yet. just my 2 cents...


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...........

http://overgrow.com
http://buddhanet.net

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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: GhostPanther]
    #1080089 - 11/23/02 07:13 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

There is no way to have any statistic on comparing life on earth with other possable life! It's like having a marble and trying to guess how many other marbles are in a giant black box in front of you (that you never opened before)- there is no way of knwing if there are 84723954 marbles, 653 marbles or 0 marbles in the box.

Someone elses' theroy of life on other planets is just as good as mine.

:tongue:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Alan Stone]
    #1080100 - 11/23/02 07:20 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I believe time exists in the same way that "distance" exists. Something can be 10 feet away, a completely abstract idea, yet still describing something true. Something can also be 10 years "old," a completely abstract idea, yet still describing something true.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Fcuerkt]
    #1080106 - 11/23/02 07:23 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

When I talk of the universe, I refer to "The Everything," including all the nothing.

How can it not be infinite? What's out beyond it? Nothing? Well nothing is something; its the absense of stuff - so if nothing's out past the universe, then that nothing is infinite right? no? ok then whats past that? a large concrete wall? ok then whats past that? nothing? ok then the nothing goes on forever, right?

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
Nothing is something.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: GhostPanther]
    #1080133 - 11/23/02 07:40 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

well considering there are more stars in the universe than all the grains of sand on all the beaches in the world, I personally believe that there is intelligent life out there, just because of those odds.

Right, now take that innefable number of planet-representing grains of sand from the beach that is the universe and put it them all in a huge hourglass. Before you do this colour the sand grain red if it represents a planet which does, will, or did sustain space-faring beings. The hourglass empties in 10 billion years. How many red grains of sand will come through within 100 000 years of eachother? Of course, we have no clue what the exact ratio would be, but we can all agree that the red grains are *sparsely* distributed. Now let's say a few red grains come through within the window we talked about, let's now go look at these species living on the planets. Do they have the urge to meet other intelligent species? I'm sure they wouldn't all want to, so we can eliminate some as potential ETs. Now let's go back to the beach and look at the red sand's original location. Are the two or more grains close enough that it would at all be worth while for the beings to check eachother out? And let's not forget just how many grains of sand there is on the beach, they may have a lot of searching to do.

Of course this hourglass model isn't perfect but I thought it might get across the odds of intelligent life communicating. And if you think 100 000 years is a large window just to give some general perspective check this*: one million seconds go by in 11 days, one billion seconds take 34 years to go by.

*I'm working from memory and may be off I did the calculations a few days ago give it a try yourself if you want to know exactly

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OfflineMurex
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Dogomush]
    #1080138 - 11/23/02 07:44 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

There is no way of knowing!

We have no other evidence to begin coralating data besides the planets inside our own system. Would that mean that every star has one planet of life on it? Not in my opinion. We can only guess, and your guess is as good as mine.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


Edited by Murex (11/23/02 07:46 PM)

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OfflineFcuerkt
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Dogomush]
    #1080141 - 11/23/02 07:45 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

"Well nothing is something"

I'll ignore the oxymoron and respond to your idiotic statement.

Even if nothing is something, and that nothing is part of the universe, if there is an "absence of stuff" beyond a certian boundary within the universe, there are no planets/life beyond that boundary. So it is totally moot.

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Fcuerkt]
    #1080157 - 11/23/02 07:52 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Edit #1 (quotes around word):"Idiotic" End Edit #1... hmm thanks man.

Anyway, all I was saying is that in my personal definition of the universe, it includes all of the "nothing" as well, making my universe infinite.

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
Have a nice night..


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

Edited by Strumpling (11/23/02 07:53 PM)

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OfflineGhostPanther
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Murex]
    #1080390 - 11/23/02 09:41 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

We can only guess, and your guess is as good as mine




lets end this pointless discussion on that note.  :wink: 


--------------------
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OfflinePhluck
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Dogomush]
    #1081049 - 11/24/02 02:29 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

No, I'm saying, at this point in time, many physicists disagree with the "universe is infinate" theory.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Dogomush]
    #1081378 - 11/24/02 09:36 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

It is easy for a creature, living on the ocean floor, to deny all existance of "dry land". Dry Land doesn't exist, and there certainly isn't any intelligent life on it, that's for sure. I haven't seen any.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Phluck]
    #1081380 - 11/24/02 09:38 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

No, I'm saying, at this point in time, many physicists disagree with the "universe is infinate" theory.

Many physicists cannot agree on anything together, and most of them have certainly never left Earth.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Shroomism]
    #1081409 - 11/24/02 10:00 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

How do you plug your PC in on the ocean floor?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Swami]
    #1081410 - 11/24/02 10:01 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Geothermal vents


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Shroomism]
    #1081433 - 11/24/02 10:16 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

It is easy for a creature, living on the ocean floor, to deny all existance of "dry land".

yes exactly! there is no reason for it to believe that it does, and so we come back to the question "does intelligent life exist in the universe?". humans are the creature living on the ocean bottom, until we evole flippers to swim to the surface, we'll never see dry land (or the aliens) and so we deny their existence, because to us they don't exist right now.

All of you people convinced there HAS to be intelligent life out there because the statistics seem to say so are livining in a fantasy world.

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: chodamunky]
    #1081438 - 11/24/02 10:19 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Or of course, if human divers come down and visit the octopus down the alley. Then the fish population will have endless debates over where the human diver is and why they don't have any proof of it, and why only the octopus saw it - the only logical conclusion is that the octopus is completely insane, and imagined the whole thing in his mind.

Or you could just ask the dolphins.


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Shroomism]
    #1081552 - 11/24/02 11:24 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

It's waste of space if there's no other inteligent life.


--------------------



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InvisibleXibalba
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Strumpling]
    #1081731 - 11/24/02 12:45 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

- so if nothing's out past the universe, then that nothing is infinite right? no? ok then whats past that?

I don't think you understand space... You think of the universe as a really big three-dimensional 'ball' with all the stars inside, when actually, it's more like the almost-flat 3-dimensional *surface* of a 4-dimensional ball. The universe has no edge, so saying what's "out past the universe" is like saying what's "north of the north pole." You can't get to the end of the universe just as you can't sail off the edge of the earth, but the size of the Earth, and its seas, are also finite.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Dogomush]
    #1081754 - 11/24/02 12:52 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Judging by our leaders - Bush, Walters, Ashcroft, there may not be any intelligent life on Earth...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Xibalba]
    #1081918 - 11/24/02 02:15 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

"You think of the universe as a really big three-dimensional 'ball' with all the stars inside, when actually, it's more like the almost-flat 3-dimensional *surface* of a 4-dimensional ball."

How would you know what I think....... The flat universe theory seems to be gaining ground and also implies that the cosmos will continue to expand and separate FOREVER. This means obviously there is space for this to happen in FOREVER, meaning there is infinite space, meaning by my definition of Universe, its infinite.

So how does your post argue with what I'm saying?


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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InvisibleXibalba
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Strumpling]
    #1082119 - 11/24/02 04:07 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Well, if you're defining the universe that way, I'm not arguing.
But by the usual definition, that which the universe is expanding 'into' is not "space." Both space and time are limited to within the universe. There may be 'hyperspace' 'outside' and an infinite number of universes 'elsewhere'- but your original description was kind of misleading. Like there's space outside and it's the same kind of space as the space inside- and as the universe gets bigger the boundary expands into it, the way Hawaii's shoreline is expanding into the Pacific Ocean...

But more relevant to this thread- even if space and time are boundless, we know matter and energy are not. If the universe expands forever, it will go cold and everything will fall into black holes in a finite amount of time. This actually limits the number of possible things more than a 'closed' universe would.

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Xibalba]
    #1082133 - 11/24/02 04:14 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

The Universe will not expand forever. Like any cycle.. It will reach full maturity, or critical mas, have a slight pause(zero point), and then begin contracting. The cosmic breath.


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OfflineMurex
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Shroomism]
    #1082176 - 11/24/02 04:35 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I agree.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Shroomism]
    #1082186 - 11/24/02 04:43 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Does the "crunch" send the particles shooting out in the opposite way? An contraction and then expansion? Creating a new alternate universe out of the same material?


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Revelation]
    #1082191 - 11/24/02 04:46 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Yes... Creation and Destruction is the cycle of the ever evolving unverse in which we live.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Shroomism]
    #1082193 - 11/24/02 04:47 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Cool.


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OfflineMurex
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Revelation]
    #1082200 - 11/24/02 04:48 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Imagine watching an explotion that slows down until it looks as if it had stopped. Then it starts to move backwards slowly, then faster until it's all back to one single mass. Then the cycle starts over again.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Anonymous

Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Swami]
    #1082204 - 11/24/02 04:49 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

The hourglass empties in 10 billion years.
Our "hourglass" does not do this so that doesn't even make your statements comparable. If a civilization was around long enough to learn everything about space and time I'm sure they would have figured out how to cover space in an infinitly small amount of time. This leads me to believe the amount of space that is obtainable to older civilizations is also infinite, so a civilization could be at two ends of the universe, of course there is no ends so they would just be really really really far away. Life IS out there, itd be offensive to your common sense to think otherwise. If theres an infinite amount of space that GUARANTEES infinite amounts of civilization why? BECAUSE INFINITE MEANS *FOREVER*, if space goes on forever, so does the possibilities of life and anything else.

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OfflineMurex
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: ]
    #1082245 - 11/24/02 05:04 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I totally agree.  :wink:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Murex]
    #1082501 - 11/24/02 07:43 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not saying I agree with the flat universe theory, which supports an infinitely expanding area of mass and matter...... i was simply using it because it seemed he was argueing with me.

and by "space" i didn't mean the "space-time" space, i meant like "room" or "available area" or whatever....



Regardless, I agree with the Plus and Minus crowd....... just like EVERYTHING, there's a growth period, then a destruction/breakdown, a negative and a positive, a male and a female, a black and a while, a yin and a yang, yadda yadda yadda...

Everything seems to follow the balance.

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
BigBbang => Big Crunch


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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OfflineFcuerkt
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Murex]
    #1082504 - 11/24/02 07:43 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

"The Universe will not expand forever. Like any cycle.. It will reach full maturity, or critical mas, have a slight pause(zero point), and then begin contracting. The cosmic breath."

Oh, well as long as you say so. . . oh, wait, you don't know this. Whether the universe will start contracting depends on the cosmological constant, and we don't know what that is.

**

Back to the subject of intelligent life elsewhere, we've also been talking about life as we know it, requiring earth-like conditions and whatnot. All life really needs in order to start is a self-replicating molecule (primordial RNA, in our case.) I think intelligence will evolve just like flippers.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Fcuerkt]
    #1082512 - 11/24/02 07:46 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

gee so what you're saying is......... we don't really know ANYTHING AT ALL for certain? oh ok so we're all simply talking in THEORY and IDEAS and POSSIBILITIES.

oh ok then. maybe you can stop being such a prick all the time then if you now understand that none of us know anything and we're all trying to share ideas.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
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OfflineFcuerkt
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Strumpling]
    #1082514 - 11/24/02 07:47 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

No, I'm saying that science doesn't know what the value of the cosmological constant is.

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OfflineFcuerkt
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Strumpling]
    #1082516 - 11/24/02 07:48 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

That is, strumpling, if you were talking to me.

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Fcuerkt]
    #1082567 - 11/24/02 08:12 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

thats right, so if we don't know, then you're not right either..... we're throwing ideas out on the table, so there's no need to say "uhh yeah ok.. if you say so"


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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OfflineFcuerkt
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Strumpling]
    #1082596 - 11/24/02 08:27 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

well but in that particular case I was right. We really don't know what the cosmological constant is. I'm not trying to start shit, I just want to make that clear, because everyone is talking about a beautiful universe that's going through an infinite cycle of births and deaths, and it's not necessarily like that. Jesus, man, didn't you read the "be nice" thread? It's all plur now.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Strumpling]
    #1082599 - 11/24/02 08:29 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

No, saying "Whatever..." is much more trendy.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Swami]
    #1083014 - 11/24/02 10:36 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Judging by our leaders - Bush, Walters, Ashcroft, there may not be any intelligent life on Earth... 




I would start the judging by judging the people that voted them in.  They were the same ones who voted Clinton et al into office.  Not that bright, are they? :wink: 

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Strumpling]
    #1083220 - 11/24/02 11:31 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

There's also the holographic theory of the universe...


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: ]
    #1083448 - 11/25/02 12:59 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

hey Mushrooms...... voting for president here is a joke.

I don't like green beans and I don't like peas. When I was a small child my mom could still put just those two foods in front of me and I'd have to eat one of them, ya know? Either that or not eat at all.

I don't vote, but even if I did its just making the descision "ok which evil asshole do you want to win?"

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
Fcuerkt thinks I'm being mean now.... hmm he's the guy who called me an Idiot - where have I resorted to name-calling?


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
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OfflineFcuerkt
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Strumpling]
    #1083485 - 11/25/02 01:11 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

See, man, you're still doing this division stuff. We are all children of the earth.

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Fcuerkt]
    #1083538 - 11/25/02 01:48 AM (21 years, 4 months ago)

lol what a joke


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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OfflineMurex
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Fcuerkt]
    #1084345 - 11/25/02 12:39 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

I've been denied all the best ultrasex.  :tongue:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Murex]
    #1084634 - 11/25/02 02:21 PM (21 years, 4 months ago)

haha great thread this has come to be. I love where the argueing ends up. I'm going to post a sequel.

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OfflineTheGus
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Re: There isn't intelligent life on other planets [Re: Dogomush]
    #5269986 - 02/06/06 03:44 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

if your going to look at it from that point of view (which i highly suggest against because it looks like a rather useless path but of course i could be mistaken)

technically from that pov

this solar system is the only one that exists, with a holographic image of the rest of the stars and solar systems are just pictures made up by artists (which could invariably be true)

im sorry i confused myself typing this post, but alas it is irrelevant... hmm


--------------------
"It is easier to teach a computer to play chess than to build a mudpie."Sherry Turkle Life on the Screen: Identity in the Age of the Internet
"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts"-Einstein
:mrt: I pity the fool who break traffic laws with $870,000 of drugs in the car.      -mo0nlite_sonata
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Shroomalicious 9,234 69 12/18/02 06:30 PM
by Strumpling
* Mabye aliens exist, and we just cant perceive them.
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NiGGy 4,977 45 01/14/03 08:32 AM
by NSKiller

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