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OfflineMojo_Risin
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Registered: 03/31/01
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Two Supermassive Black Holes On Collision Course
    #1069284 - 11/20/02 11:51 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

By Dr David Whitehouse
BBC News Online science editor

For the first time scientists have seen two supermassive black holes existing together at the core of the same galaxy.
The black holes are orbiting each other and will collide and merge to create an even larger black hole - resulting in a catastrophic event that will unleash intense radiation and gravitational waves.

However, this will not happen for several hundred million years.

The observations were made by the Chandra X-ray Observatory. They show the nucleus of an extraordinarily bright galaxy, known as NGC 6240, contains two giant black holes, both taking material from their surroundings.

This discovery shows that massive black holes can grow through mergers in the centres of galaxies.

Cosmic fingerprints

"The breakthrough came with Chandra's ability to clearly distinguish the two nuclei, and measure the details of the X-radiation from each nucleus," says Guenther Hasinger, of the Max Planck Institute for Extraterrestrial Physics in Germany.

"These cosmic fingerprints revealed features characteristic of supermassive black holes - an excess of high-energy radiation from gas swirling around a black hole," he says.

Previous X-ray observatories had shown that the central region of NGC 6240 produces X-rays, while radio, infrared and optical observations had detected two bright nuclei at the centre of the galaxy, but the nature of this region was a mystery.

Astronomers did not know the location of the X-ray source, or the nature of the two bright nuclei.

"With Chandra, we hoped to determine which one, if either, of the nuclei was an active supermassive black hole," says Stefanie Komossa, also of the Max Planck Institute.

"Much to our surprise, we found that both were active black holes."

Cosmic collision

At a distance of about 400 million light-years, NGC 6240 is a prime example of a massive galaxy in which stars are forming at an exceptionally rapid rate due to a recent collision and subsequent merger of two smaller galaxies.

Because of the large amount of dust and gas in such galaxies, it is difficult to peer deep into their central regions with optical telescopes. However, X-rays emanating from the galactic core can penetrate the veil of gas and dust.

"The detection of a binary black hole supports the idea that black holes can grow to enormous masses in the centres of galaxies by merging with other black holes," said Komossa.

"This is important for understanding how galaxies form and evolve," she says.

Over the course of the next few hundred million years, the two black holes in NGC 6240, which are about 3,000 light-years apart, will drift towards one another and merge to form an even larger supermassive black hole.

Towards the end of this process, an enormous burst of gravitational waves.

"This is the first time we see a binary black hole in action, the smoking gun for something that will become a major gravitational wave burst in the future," says Hasinger.

Here's a pic of the two black holes...



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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Two Supermassive Black Holes On Collision Course [Re: Mojo_Risin]
    #1072025 - 11/21/02 12:42 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

i liked this story. i wonder if they fucked up there calculations and didnt realize the light they had seen was old and now its actually much closer to the actual event, and it may actually happen soon unleashing waves of energy shooting in all directions, and who knows!


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What?


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Anonymous

Re: Two Supermassive Black Holes On Collision Course [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1072445 - 11/21/02 03:14 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

very good point u make....


i always wondered how something whose very nature bends light 360 degree's can emit any light itself.... hmmmmmm

it would make sense that this black hole "developed" after the source of the veiwable light had existed for some time... if this were the case, then the light we perceive that is emitting from this black hole, is in fact moving away from us.

this in turn, would lead one to believe, that we continue to see this light energy only because this black hole is "tugging" on the light that had moved past us, light years ago.... hmmmmmmmmmm

this might help to explain the slight draft i feel every now and then, while working in my basement....

only kidding... but it is interesting... ummmm, watching the leonid showers earlier this week opened my mind a bit more then it had been lately... i stand in awe of it all....

it is one of the things that has helped to bring me back to my real roots...

every week i listen to Dr. Michio Kaku on a very important radio station located in manhatten ny.... pacifica foundation station wbai 99.5 fm ....

a link to Dr. Kaku's website is http://www.mkaku.org/

anyone interested in astrophysics and current theories in the field will enjoy the site.... peace!





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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Two Supermassive Black Holes On Collision Course [Re: Anonymous]
    #1072480 - 11/21/02 03:24 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Pardon, I thought this thread was about some overweight inner-city hooker catfight...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMonkah
abreactionsynchronicity
Registered: 08/26/01
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Re: Two Supermassive Black Holes On Collision Course [Re: Swami]
    #1072838 - 11/21/02 06:28 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

AAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

i can go to sleep now.
my eyes have seen too much


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Anonymous

Re: Two Supermassive Black Holes On Collision Course [Re: Swami]
    #1073198 - 11/21/02 10:56 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Pardon, I thought this thread was about some overweight inner-city hooker catfight...
 




It isn't?? :confused:


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OfflineDr_Stupid
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Registered: 12/21/01
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Re: Two Supermassive Black Holes On Collision Course [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1073843 - 11/21/02 03:11 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

It wouldn't matter - they probably have merged already, but any energy thusly unleashed will take 400 million years to get here...


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FNORD


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Offlinewhat was that
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Registered: 11/21/02
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Re: Two Supermassive Black Holes On Collision Course [Re: Dr_Stupid]
    #1074207 - 11/21/02 04:44 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

sigh, it would kick ass to die from something liek that.


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Offlinepsilo25
The one stuck inthe middle ofthis hopelessmess.

Registered: 03/03/02
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Re: Two Supermassive Black Holes On Collision Course [Re: Swami]
    #1074233 - 11/21/02 04:50 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Pardon, I thought this thread was about some overweight inner-city hooker catfight

ROTFLMFAO!!!!
That's gotta be your funniest reply ever Swami!! LoL, keep up it up man!!


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: Anonymous]
    #1074281 - 11/21/02 05:01 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)



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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: Two Supermassive Black Holes On Collision Course [Re: Anonymous]
    #1074726 - 11/21/02 08:18 PM (15 years, 30 days ago)

A black hole will only bend light 360 degrees if the light is exactly at the event horizon. In this case a beam of light would be made to orbit the black hole forever. If the light is inside the event horizon then it will be pulled into the singularity. If the light is outside the event horizon it will spiral outwards until it reaches a distance where it can escape.

We see black holes because the matter in the accretion disk (the disk of matter being pulled into the hole) is moving VERY fast around the black hole. The matter heats up and begins to emit x-rays that we can detect.

There's also Hawking Radiation (good old Steve figured this one out) that we can see. Hawking Radiation is caused by virtual particle pairs that are created in the vacume in space. Virtual particles are a pair of particles (a particle and it's anti-matter equivalent) brought into existence from "nowhere". The energy needed to create these particles is "borrowed" from the vacume and is usually retuned very quickly. If a pair is created too close to the event horizon, sometimes one particle will be sucked in which allows the other particle to escape (normally a pair of VP's would annihilate eachother nearly instantly after creation).


--------------------
The story book's been read
And every line believed
Curriculum's been set
Logic is a threat
Reason searched and seized


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Two Supermassive Black Holes On Collision Course [Re: trendal]
    #1074830 - 11/21/02 08:55 PM (15 years, 30 days ago)

I don't think virtual particles are matter/antimatter pairs, if they were then they would anihilate into a photon.


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: Two Supermassive Black Holes On Collision Course [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1074896 - 11/21/02 09:22 PM (15 years, 30 days ago)

Yes virtal particles are particle/anti-particle pairs, and yes they can emit a photon when they annihilate.


--------------------
The story book's been read
And every line believed
Curriculum's been set
Logic is a threat
Reason searched and seized


BTC - 1KqrSHZ1C3NsQP4g3PkHhppBnhdgyXr6sB


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: Two Supermassive Black Holes On Collision Cour [Re: ]
    #1075004 - 11/21/02 10:28 PM (15 years, 30 days ago)

id love to see evidence of a white hole ( spews out matter instead of sucking in.. )

such things are believed to exist. they are called 'quasars'. these things release extraordinary amouns of energy and matter in 'jets' or streams. so the theory goes, whatever matter and light a blackhole sucks in, it gets spit out of a quasar, perhaps at a different location (or time) in the universe.

quasar FAQs
http://www.phys.vt.edu/~jhs/faq/quasars.html#q1



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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: Two Supermassive Black Holes On Collision Cour [Re: chodamunky]
    #1075070 - 11/21/02 10:52 PM (15 years, 30 days ago)

Quasars are not completely understood, but I don't think they are thought to be white holes. They don't spew out matter from the black hole. I think the standing theory (last I checked, anyway) is that a VERY large black hole accelerates matter to such velocities that they can sling past the event horizon instead of falling in. The matter is then shot completely out of the quasar and is probably concentrated into jets by large magnetic fields created by the black hole.


--------------------
The story book's been read
And every line believed
Curriculum's been set
Logic is a threat
Reason searched and seized


BTC - 1KqrSHZ1C3NsQP4g3PkHhppBnhdgyXr6sB


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Anonymous

Re: Two Supermassive Black Holes On Collision Cour [Re: chodamunky]
    #1075085 - 11/21/02 10:55 PM (15 years, 30 days ago)

i've given everyone here... (even swami for his lighthearted spin on things) 5 shrooms for bumping an interesting thread mojo tossed out there 4 us to think about... the way things unfold never cease to amaze me... when i look at photo images of the stars and their energy, i look into my fathers face and see his eyes... peace to all... thanks again mojo!





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OfflineMurex
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Re: Two Supermassive Black Holes On Collision Cour [Re: Anonymous]
    #1075460 - 11/22/02 01:24 AM (15 years, 30 days ago)

We see black holes because the matter in the accretion disk (the disk of matter being pulled into the hole) is moving VERY fast around the black hole.

This is true.

Quasars do not spew matter, they emit large amounts of radiation.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Two Supermassive Black Holes On Collision Course [Re: trendal]
    #1075877 - 11/22/02 04:48 AM (15 years, 30 days ago)

so where does the photon go?


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: Two Supermassive Black Holes On Collision Course [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1075893 - 11/22/02 05:00 AM (15 years, 30 days ago)

I'm not sure, I've looked around for the answer but haven't found it yet.

I think it has something to do with how the event occurs. For the virtual particles to form, they must borrow energy from the vacume. The most abundant form of energy in the vacume is light energy, I think. So the energy borrowed would be a photon of some wavelength. The photon would decay into the particle/anti-particle pair, which would then annihilate eachother forming another photon.

So I don't think it's a question of where the photon goes, because there always was a photon.

Actually I'm pretty sure that's the answer  :grin:


--------------------
The story book's been read
And every line believed
Curriculum's been set
Logic is a threat
Reason searched and seized


BTC - 1KqrSHZ1C3NsQP4g3PkHhppBnhdgyXr6sB


Edited by trendal (11/22/02 05:03 AM)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Two Supermassive Black Holes On Collision Course [Re: trendal]
    #1075899 - 11/22/02 05:05 AM (15 years, 30 days ago)

`Splain this:

Is the fact that gravity can escape a black hole proof that it moves faster than light?



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