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InvisibleLTBOOMER
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Black holes
    #1661982 - 06/25/03 06:28 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Im sorry, this was on my mind and i had to share it with you all. Black holes are incredebly fucked up. what is on the other side and where does all that matter go? like the light, where does the light go?


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Black holes [Re: LTBOOMER]
    #1661997 - 06/25/03 06:32 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

this question has only one answer : speculation...
no one REALLY knows where it all goes, so all we can do is speculate... if I had to guess, the matter enters some co-exiting solar system in our infinate universe... just a guess


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InvisibleLTBOOMER
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Re: Black holes [Re: 2Experimental]
    #1662014 - 06/25/03 06:37 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Does anyone know if blackholes ever disapear or once a black hole always a black hole increasing in size with all the shit it eats up. If it stays a black hole eventually everything is going to be eaten and taken into the "other side"


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: Black holes [Re: LTBOOMER]
    #1662196 - 06/25/03 07:21 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

this is how steven hawkings theory goes sorta

when a black hole sucks up matter it is condensed into an infinately thin string which is infinately long or something like that its called the spagettification theory.

he also theorizes that a black hole isnt forever if it has nothing to "eat" then it will slowly very very slowy start to release an atom at a time. eventually after there is no more stars because all the hydrogen and helium in the universe has been burnt up in stars everything will go dark. then there will only be the black holes and then even they will be gone and the universe will be black, empty and cold, and what happens after that is the real mystery.


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Offlinedaba
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Re: Black holes [Re: blaze2]
    #1662202 - 06/25/03 07:23 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Man, I am so outdated with all this quantam mechanics/black hole theory. The last book I read on such was A Brief History of Time by Steven Hawkings published back in 1984!


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Black holes [Re: daba]
    #1663677 - 06/26/03 05:53 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

That's not outdated, not much anyway.

Most new research on black holes since then has been about detecting them, and about modelling exactly how matter behaves in terms of motion, temperature and radiation, just before it gets sucked in behind the event horizon.

Here is a timeline of black hole physics, from 1640 to 2002.


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OfflinePedM
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Re: Black holes [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1663901 - 06/26/03 09:16 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I read something at one time about black holes having such incredible gravity that even time slows to a near halt at their edge. What of this?


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Black holes [Re: Ped]
    #1663989 - 06/26/03 10:21 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I read something at one time about black holes having such incredible gravity that even time slows to a near halt at their edge. What of this?




That's one of the weird effects of Einstein's theory of gravitation. Time passes slower deep down in a gravity field compared to higher up. Or faster higher up compared to a clock deep down, it all depends on your viewpoint.

So if you compare the rate of two clocks, one where you are, far away from the black hole, and one just a bit outside the hole's event horizon, the clock near the event horizon will seem to stand still almost.

Another way to visualize it is to think about the event horizon as the place where everything is compelled to move at the speed of light towards the "center" of the black hole. This gives an infinite Doppler effect for any signal that is sent back to outside observers, and the last wavelength of the signal's carrier wave is stretched into an infinitely long wave when it reaches a far-away observer.


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Offlinesmoke6969
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Re: Black holes [Re: blaze2]
    #1663994 - 06/26/03 10:24 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I recentlly within the past couple of months saw a television show on discovery channel about black holes. I don't remember exactlly what it said but it was something that someblack holes go dormant or something and that they start up again afer being dormant after a while. And they did some mathmatical complicted stuff and found out that the black hole near us isnt affecting us and that becasue they go dorant and start up again the figured that black holes are a part of the creation of all galaxies.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Black holes [Re: LTBOOMER]
    #1664208 - 06/26/03 12:37 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Black holes are formed when a massive star runs out of fuel. It fuses elements in a chain up until iron, which it can't fuse to get energy. When the whole core of the star is iron, there is no more energy being produced so gravity crunches the iron core so small that it creates a black hole. Anything can technically create a black hole if you crush it small enough (*increase it's density).

A black hole "consists" of basically three parts. Outside, the Event Horizon, and the Singularity (center).

The event horizon is the "boundary of no return" where gravity becomes so strong that not even light can escape. A lot of crazy shit happens at the event horizon. It's not a physical barrier or anything, you wouldn' t be able to see it. Time stops at the event horizon, as spacetime is warped into a loop. This is also what causes light to be trapped. Light becomes redshifted extremely in the gravitational field and is bent, like spacetime, into a loop around the event horizon.

At the spatial center of the black hole is the biggest mystery, the singularity. The singularity is a zero-volume, infinite density point in space which contains all of the matter of the original star and everything that's been sucked in. If string theory is correct I think the singularity is a single string made of the combined strings that have fallen into the black hole. This also helps get rid of the nasty zero-point singularity and replaces it with a Plank-scale string.

Black holes do lessen in size over time. I can't remember the exact physics, but string theory shows that black holes "evaporate" over time and eventually dissapear.

Yeah, black holes are seriously fucked up  :smile: 


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You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
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You don't know what it is, but it's there....
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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Black holes [Re: trendal]
    #1664230 - 06/26/03 12:53 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I guess Hawking Radiation could also explain black hole "evaporation".

Hawking Radiation occurs at the event horizon. Empty space is not really empty, there are pairs of "virtual particles" constantly being created and then annihilated. They are created by "borrowing" energy from the vacuum of space, and then have to return that energy so they annihilate each other (there is always a particle/anti-particle pair produced). But if a pair of particles pops into existence right at the event horizon, one particle could get sucked into the black hole which allows the other to escape annihilation.

Hawking also found that the particle that escapes gets a boost of energy from the event horizon, which causes it to fly straight out. But since the black hole has lost energy in the exchange, it is smaller (energy=matter).


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleLTBOOMER
Harpua
Registered: 02/19/02
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Re: Black holes [Re: trendal]
    #1664346 - 06/26/03 01:47 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

FUCKED UP!!!!! black holes are just nuts!


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Black holes [Re: LTBOOMER]
    #1664875 - 06/26/03 05:17 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

black holes are neato!


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Offlinespiritshaper
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Re: Black holes [Re: Strumpling]
    #1666523 - 06/27/03 04:39 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

ya man, j00 should read some of Hawkings books. good stuff in there, he's a very intelligent guy with alot of good theories.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Black holes [Re: spiritshaper]
    #1668173 - 06/27/03 11:39 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I read his "The Universe in a Nutshell" a couple months ago and think I may want to get "A Brief History of Time" but I've heard that one is really complicated..


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Invisiblechunder
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Re: Black holes [Re: Strumpling]
    #1668178 - 06/27/03 11:44 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

"FUCKED UP!!!!! black holes are just nuts!"

LOL! I agree, the idea of some super massive hole-ass that eats fucking stars is intense. I say we wage war on those motherfuckers.


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OfflineSlapnutRob
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Re: Black holes [Re: chunder]
    #1668275 - 06/28/03 12:45 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I read the 1998 update of A Brief History of Time. Very interesting but I'd have to read it 10 times to understand it all. Trendal basically got it all down. One problem Hawking used to have was based on the second theory of thermodynamics, that in a closed system entropy must increase. This was a problem because black holes are obviously closed, yet they shrink. Most didn't believe him at first, but Hawking somehow proved that black holes emit particles of radiation, much like a hot body like our sun. I guess the particles come from the empty space around the event horizon, because nothing can escape from the inside. Thus, black holes shrink over time because of this, but they expand when they take in matter. Hawking also believes that when the event horizon gets to the singularity there will be an explosion equivolent to hundreds of H-Bombs, but it hasn't been observed yet.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Black holes [Re: SlapnutRob]
    #1669639 - 06/28/03 04:20 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yes! Black holes do have entropy, and Hawking discovered that it is proportional to the surface area of the event horizon. Both of these are proportional to a black hole's temperature. The temperature of a black hole is explained by Hawking radiation (anything with a temperature has to give off energy...but a black hole was once thought to not allow anything to escape.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Black holes [Re: trendal]
    #1670146 - 06/28/03 09:46 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Black Holes...the sandpits of Space....muahahaa....uh oh...I feel the Hello.jpg coming on...-runs outta the S&P Forum-


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OfflineDrubuShrume
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Re: Black holes [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #1670637 - 06/29/03 02:29 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

So like, if someone were to walk into the event horizon(Hypothetically of course, you can;t just walk to the horizon) to the onlooker it would appear that the person just disappears as everymolecule is crushed?

But, to the person on the horizon, time stops, so they would just feel like, stuck in this part with everything frozen around them?

Trippy


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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