TeamAmerica said:

It's actually the Aryans im talking about...The vedic teachings that were passed down to modern Hinduism...But im sure some sects of Sumerians practiced vegetarianism, as they were quite intelligent.

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Eating increased amounts of Protein has nothing to do with brain size evolution..It is obviously much more complicated than that...IN other words...the missing link isn't meat consumption

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Our primate cousins if you want to talk about evolution in proper terms, actually had SHARP front teeth that were used to hunt animals

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the species of monkey that we are more closesly related to ate more of a vegetarious diet as you explained earlier, thus larger brains sizes.

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The isotope evidence overwhelmingly points to the Neanderthals behaving as top-level carnivores, obtaining almost all of their dietary protein from animal sources.

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We eat meat because of our technology, not because our bodies were designed for, or long for it. Our POTENTIAL meat intake was increased...not all civilizations ate NEAR the amounts of meat the modern day does...mostly America...

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TeamAmerica said:

I just disagree with the hate towards vegetarianism...

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Prisoner#1 said:

TeamAmerica said:

It's actually the Aryans im talking about...The vedic teachings that were passed down to modern Hinduism...But im sure some sects of Sumerians practiced vegetarianism, as they were quite intelligent.

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we'll take this one the easy route

provide some evidence

Ide be happy to...

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/vegetarianism_recommended_in_Vedic_scripture.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_and_religion

http://seva.sulekha.com/blog/post/2006/08/how-old-are-the-vedas-and-who-can-read-them.htm

ALSO vegetarianism isnt limited to that place in time and im sure it was practiced by many other civilizations...The Greek Pythagoreans practiced vegetarianism...The Gnostics practiced vegetarianism, ...This is all written down...all document-able "facts"

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Eating increased amounts of Protein has nothing to do with brain size evolution..It is obviously much more complicated than that...IN other words...the missing link isn't meat consumption

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you're arguing the facts put forth by nutrition anthropologists

LOL PLEASE...POST A ONE OF THESE "FACTS" THAT STATES THAT THE MYSTERY OF THE EVOLUTION OF OUR BRAIN SIZE? Or in other words...the missing link...The human brain size DOUBLED in less than one million years, this is the missing link, these are the fossils and theories that have yet to be found and hypothesized. Primates are omnivores yes I understand this, but meat eating again, had nothing to do with us evolving into humanness.

Quote:

Our primate cousins if you want to talk about evolution in proper terms, actually had SHARP front teeth that were used to hunt animals

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teeth did not hunt animals, would you care to provide some evidence for
that because as I recall in my reading, tools were used, not teeth,
stone, sticks, eventually napped tools, then bronze, iron, not long
afterward more advanced weapons




gorilla



NOW...neanderthal..starting to understand yet?

Quote:

the species of monkey that we are more closesly related to ate more of a vegetarious diet as you explained earlier, thus larger brains sizes.

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our direct ancestors, Homo neanderthalensis were almost exclusively meat eaters again, chime in with some actual evidence of your claims

Reread my post so you might understand it this time.

Prisoner#1 said:

TeamAmerica said:

I just disagree with the hate towards vegetarianism...

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if they weren't trying to spread so much bullshit they might not catch the shit they do, simply looking at facts would cure the problem, instead they take the contrived shit from others and spread it without doing any additional research

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You are full of sorry

Kada said:

If I couldn't eat meat why would I want to live?

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That does seem like the driving thought behind most minds that argue against vegetarians

That's why I call it meat addictions...Im not over exaggerating emotionally, I don't hate people who choose to eat animal flesh...

I think it could literally be seen as an addiction...

JackthaTripper said:

...and not be a vegetarian. 


How can you love all animals but kill them at the same time?

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Kada said:

Your crazier than a sack of weasels.



Meat addiction? More like I know what I like to eat and live on. I eat meat as often as I can because plants have inferior taste and texture. Nothing fills me up more than eating a big fat steak or a nice juicy cheeseburger.

It's hard to argue with pleasure...thus why I called it meat addiction...would it be possible for me to take meat away from you? Your answer is my answer.

BTW its all in your head to begin with...its called relativism...Some people that dont eat meat do not like it any more, you are just cultured practiced and used to eating meat on a regular basis...thats all...no need to get mad at me friend!

Animals are born and raised to get in my belly. Without that need they will never have been born at all. Win win situation. They live and I eat.

I simply just don't look at animals in this way

Eating meat isn't an addiction lol. It's instinct.Um maybe for a carniverous animal...but its a little beyond natural instinct...its just a choice that we take advantage of with our technology.

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Neuron said:

JackthaTripper said:

...and not be a vegetarian. 


How can you love all animals but kill them at the same time?

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How do you think humans survived on Earth 15,000 years ago???

You think they were vegetarian?

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Well actually civilization would of never made it close to where we are today if we did not have plants to farm

And this is also...an anthropological fact, obviously.

Leanin said:

its called the food chain. and we are on top. its only natural. i think humans just eating vegetarian is NOT natural.

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You sound like a genius right out of elementary school

Its just...in my mind...their exists more than just a floating food pyramid, and a hate/ disregard to other animal life.

TeamAmerica said:

Prisoner#1 said:

TeamAmerica said:

It's actually the Aryans im talking about...The vedic teachings that were passed down to modern Hinduism...But im sure some sects of Sumerians practiced vegetarianism, as they were quite intelligent.

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we'll take this one the easy route

provide some evidence

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Ide be happy to...
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/vegetarianism_recommended_in_Vedic_scripture.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_and_religion

http://seva.sulekha.com/blog/post/2006/08/how-old-are-the-vedas-and-who-can-read-them.htm

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you originally tated you were talking about the aryans, now you change.
vegetarianism didnt start with the aryans, it did with the buddhists and jainists
http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/southasia/Culture/Cuisine/vegetar.html

Quote:

the early Aryans were almost certainly beef-eaters. Unlike the Indus Valley people, who were agriculturists and traders, the Aryans were a pastoral people, and they slaughtered cattle as food. Neither the early Indus Valley people nor the early Aryans venerated the cow. Though the Buddha was an exponent of ahimsa, or non-violence, he was not himself a vegetarian, and it is said that his last meal contained pork.

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Manu Smruti, the law book of Hindus! In chapter 5 verse 30 “The eater who eats the flesh of those to be eaten does nothing bad! even if he does it day after day; for God himself created some to be eaten and some to be eater”


RigVeda book 10 Hymn 28 verse 3 it says “0 Indra, Bulls they dress for thee, and of these (meat) thou eatest when Maghavan, with food thou art invited”. In Rig veda Book 10 Hymn 86 verse 13 says “indra will eat thy bulls, thy dear oblation that effecteth much. Supreme is Indra over all”

Rig-Veda book 10 Hymn 27 verse 2 “Then will I, when I lead my friends to battle against the radiant persons of godless, prepare for thee at home a vigorous bullock, and pour for thee the fifteen fold strong juices”


Mahabharata Anushashan Parva chapter 88

“Bhisma said, Listen to me, 0 Yudhishthira, what those Havis are which persons conversant with the rituals of the Shraddha (the ceremony of dead) regard as suitable in view of Shraddha and what the fruits are that attach to each. With sesame seeds and rice and barley and Masha and water and roots and fruits, if given at Shraddhas, the pitris, 0 king, remain gratified for the period of a month. With fishes offered at Shraddha, the pitris remain gratified for a period of two months. With the muflon they remain gratified for three months and with the hare for four months, with the flesh of the goat for five months, with the bacon (meat of pig) for six months, and with the flesh of birds for seven. With venison obtained from those deer that are called Prishata, they remain gratified for eight months, and with that obtained form the Ruru for nine months, and with the meat of Gavaya for ten months. With the meat of the buffalo their gratification lasts for eleven months. With beef presented at the Shraddha, their gratification, it is said, lasts for a full year. Payesa mixed with ghee is as much acceptable to the pitris as beef. With the meat of Vadhrinasa (a large bull) the gratification of pitris lasts for twelve years. The flesh of rhinoceros, offered to the pitris on anniversaries of the lunar days on which they died, becomes inexhaustible. The potherb called Kalaska, the petals of Kanchana flower, and meat of (red) goat also, thus offered, prove inexhaustible.


there's hundreds more examples showing the Vedic were in fact meat eaters
and that it's not forbidden in hindu culture

Quote:

LOL PLEASE...POST A ONE OF THESE "FACTS" THAT STATES THAT THE MYSTERY OF THE EVOLUTION OF OUR BRAIN SIZE?

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I already have and as usual you choose to ignore it

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/99legacy/6-14-1999a.html
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/lives-the-brain/201001/was-seafood-brain-food-in-human-evolution
http://www.beyondveg.com/nicholson-w/hb/hb-interview1f.shtml

Quote:

meat eating again, had nothing to do with us evolving into humanness.

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again you provide no proof

Quote:

Our primate cousins if you want to talk about evolution in proper terms, actually had SHARP front teeth that were used to hunt animals

---

teeth did not hunt animals, would you care to provide some evidence for
that because as I recall in my reading, tools were used, not teeth,
stone, sticks, eventually napped tools, then bronze, iron, not long
afterward more advanced weapons

Quote:

NOW...neanderthal..starting to understand yet?

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you realize that apes and chimps evolved differently than humans, that
our closest ancestor is the neanderthal but if you go back a bit, you'll
see the similarities

Australopithecus, one of our earlier ancestors, several races back in evolution

Druggie04 said:

I find a lot of debates/discussions are better online, but this isn't one of them.

When I have this discussion with friends their logic never prevails, and they have to concede it as a preference.

That's probably because just stating the fact that you are vegetarian opens you up for a multitude of hated mental judgments against the person.In other words, a black man could not convince a KKK member that he is an equal.

I could debate in person just as well...I understand a lot of facts im not just shitting it out my ass, .

There is a lot that is wrong with the way our society treats and consumes meat, but the act in .and of itself is in no way wrong, immoral, unhealthy, or otherwise bad.  Moderation in everything, including what you eat.  I eat mostly veggies, but the occasional meat is AWESOME, especially when I caught and harvested it myself in a humane way from a not over-harvested source. I agree, and this is pretty much my point.

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Prisoner#1 said:

TeamAmerica said:

Prisoner#1 said:

TeamAmerica said:

It's actually the Aryans im talking about...The vedic teachings that were passed down to modern Hinduism...But im sure some sects of Sumerians practiced vegetarianism, as they were quite intelligent.

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we'll take this one the easy route

provide some evidence

---

Ide be happy to...
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/vegetarianism_recommended_in_Vedic_scripture.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_and_religion

http://seva.sulekha.com/blog/post/2006/08/how-old-are-the-vedas-and-who-can-read-them.htm

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you originally tated you were talking about the aryans, now you change.
vegetarianism didnt start with the aryans, it did with the buddhists and jainists

Well again you have paid no attention...The aryans are the ones that wrote the vedas...and the Vedas are what passed down and ultimately created the Hindu teachings...BTW Buddhism sprung out of and is ultimately related to the Hindu culture. Vegetarianism WAS practiced by the Aryans...I NEVER SAID THEY CONDEMNED MEAT EATING

Quote:

the early Aryans were almost certainly beef-eaters. Unlike the Indus Valley people, who were agriculturists and traders, the Aryans were a pastoral people, and they slaughtered cattle as food. Neither the early Indus Valley people nor the early Aryans venerated the cow. Though the Buddha was an exponent of ahimsa, or non-violence, he was not himself a vegetarian, and it is said that his last meal contained pork.

---

Manu Smruti, the law book of Hindus! In chapter 5 verse 30 “The eater who eats the flesh of those to be eaten does nothing bad! even if he does it day after day; for God himself created some to be eaten and some to be eater”


RigVeda book 10 Hymn 28 verse 3 it says “0 Indra, Bulls they dress for thee, and of these (meat) thou eatest when Maghavan, with food thou art invited”. In Rig veda Book 10 Hymn 86 verse 13 says “indra will eat thy bulls, thy dear oblation that effecteth much. Supreme is Indra over all”

Rig-Veda book 10 Hymn 27 verse 2 “Then will I, when I lead my friends to battle against the radiant persons of godless, prepare for thee at home a vigorous bullock, and pour for thee the fifteen fold strong juices”


Mahabharata Anushashan Parva chapter 88

“Bhisma said, Listen to me, 0 Yudhishthira, what those Havis are which persons conversant with the rituals of the Shraddha (the ceremony of dead) regard as suitable in view of Shraddha and what the fruits are that attach to each. With sesame seeds and rice and barley and Masha and water and roots and fruits, if given at Shraddhas, the pitris, 0 king, remain gratified for the period of a month. With fishes offered at Shraddha, the pitris remain gratified for a period of two months. With the muflon they remain gratified for three months and with the hare for four months, with the flesh of the goat for five months, with the bacon (meat of pig) for six months, and with the flesh of birds for seven. With venison obtained from those deer that are called Prishata, they remain gratified for eight months, and with that obtained form the Ruru for nine months, and with the meat of Gavaya for ten months. With the meat of the buffalo their gratification lasts for eleven months. With beef presented at the Shraddha, their gratification, it is said, lasts for a full year. Payesa mixed with ghee is as much acceptable to the pitris as beef. With the meat of Vadhrinasa (a large bull) the gratification of pitris lasts for twelve years. The flesh of rhinoceros, offered to the pitris on anniversaries of the lunar days on which they died, becomes inexhaustible. The potherb called Kalaska, the petals of Kanchana flower, and meat of (red) goat also, thus offered, prove inexhaustible.


there's hundreds more examples showing the Vedic were in fact meat eaters
and that it's not forbidden in hindu culture


I understand this. The Aryans just like the Hebrews viewed certain animals as worthy to eat, and others as a Sin to eat. All in all though, the Vedas DO promote vegetarianism.

Quote:

LOL PLEASE...POST A ONE OF THESE "FACTS" THAT STATES THAT THE MYSTERY OF THE EVOLUTION OF OUR BRAIN SIZE?

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I already have and as usual you choose to ignore it

I have ignored nothing...These are no facts about JACK...this is all theoretical...Terence Mckennas Mushroom theory is honestly more believable.
http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/99legacy/6-14-1999a.html
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/lives-the-brain/201001/was-seafood-brain-food-in-human-evolution
http://www.beyondveg.com/nicholson-w/hb/hb-interview1f.shtml

Quote:

meat eating again, had nothing to do with us evolving into humanness.

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again you provide no proof

And you provide even less

Quote:

Our primate cousins if you want to talk about evolution in proper terms, actually had SHARP front teeth that were used to hunt animals

---

teeth did not hunt animals, would you care to provide some evidence for
that because as I recall in my reading, tools were used, not teeth,
stone, sticks, eventually napped tools, then bronze, iron, not long
afterward more advanced weapons

Maybe you missed my point...holld on...im about to make it

Quote:

NOW...neanderthal..starting to understand yet?

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you realize that apes and chimps evolved differently than humans, O yes I understand this...They are our COUSINS that
our closest ancestor is the neanderthal but if you go back a bit, you'll
see the similarities Yes...And you will also notice they have no more sharp teeth for tearing flesh.in other words...biological proof of my point

Australopithecus, one of our earlier ancestors, several races back in evolution

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

the species of monkey that we are more closesly related to ate more of a vegetarious diet as you explained earlier, thus larger brains sizes.

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our direct ancestors, Homo neanderthalensis were almost exclusively meat eaters again, chime in with some actual evidence of your claims

Almost exclusively meat eaters? I think this is debatable...But yes im sure they hunted.

Reread my post so you might understand it this time.

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I read your post, while we are primates just like the apes, we're not
gorrillas or chimps, several dozen branches on the evolutionary tree
away from being monkeys, these arent difficult concepts to understand,
it's not difficult to look at evolutionary history as opposed to
religious superstition to see that your drawing conclusions without facts

Religious superstition of what kind?

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Neuron said:

Man SEPARATED from monkey by eating massive amounts of meat.

This is simply untrue. Our ancestors may have had to improvise and hunt at times...but this didn't cause us to evolve into humans...that is one theory that isn't very practical...

Although 80% of calories came from gathering in hunter/gathering tribes....protein was essential.

If the whole world became vegetarian, our eco-system would be fucked.
Only because we fucked it up in the first place...When ecosystems actually used to be balanced...Humans weren't the ones that balanced the ecosystem...carnivorous animals balanced the ecosystem.
I think vegetarians should focus their efforts on HUMANE farming and treatment of animals, rather than avoid eating it all together.
I think the choice to not eat animals goes hand in hand with the humane treatment of them
Avoiding to eat meat doesn't do very much for animal cruelty prevention.

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