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shroomer44
member
Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 298
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: vegetarians are killing animals [Re: Infrared]
#4272602 - 06/08/05 04:21 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Also, his entire argument is based on the fact that modern society uses combines to harvest their crops. Im sure if vegetarians had their way there would be no commercial food production, each person would grow and harvest their own food to sustain themselves, which would completely defeat his entire argument.
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vampirism
Stranger


Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: vegetarians are killing animals [Re: tomk]
#4272692 - 06/08/05 04:40 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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were you aware that rabbits are EXTREMELY efficient. while cows are not? Ideally, you'd feed the world with rabbits and plants.
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myndreach
philosopher



Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 2,368
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Re: vegetarians are killing animals [Re: Infrared]
#4272735 - 06/08/05 04:54 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
DeepBlue42 said:
Quote:
because the meat industry is one of the leading causes of deforestation in the amazon rainforest...
agriculture is just as big of a cause of de-forestation as the meat-industry is
don't you see that we have to eat? If you have to eat to live, supporting only ONE of the deforesting industries is better than supporting BOTH.
this seems so obvious that I don't understand why people are following the line of thinking from the article in the first post...

Quote:
shroomer44 said: Also, his entire argument is based on the fact that modern society uses combines to harvest their crops. Im sure if vegetarians had their way there would be no commercial food production, each person would grow and harvest their own food to sustain themselves, which would completely defeat his entire argument.
Edited by myndreach (06/08/05 04:55 PM)
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PreparationH
apply daily

Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 18,306
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: vegetarians are killing animals [Re: myndreach]
#4272773 - 06/08/05 05:04 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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yea thats maddox, hes been around since 97, he can take any story and turn it around so that you understand his point of view and he changes yours, so far i've been readin every post of his and disagreed wih half the posts, but by the time you finish reading them you say wow, he's right. For example go to the main page and scroll down and look for Christopher Reeves is an asshole. he speaks the truth.
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: vegetarians are killing animals [Re: Delyrium]
#4272943 - 06/08/05 06:02 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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uh - not all vegetarians are "stinky hippies". and i just feel like this guy is out to cause havoc and be a devils' advocate.
No, those points don't really make sense. What does make sense is his argument. Animals are being killed for vegetarians to eat their vegetables, therefore there is no difference between them and meat eaters.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: vegetarians are killing animals [Re: myndreach]
#4272953 - 06/08/05 06:05 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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that is totally absurd...what an idiot.
sure, animals are killed while harvesting wheat and vegatables.
but if you consider killing animals a bad thing, then what is worse? eating wheat and killing animals...
or eating meat and killing and animals AND eating wheat and killing animals.
vegetarians don't eat meat, meat eaters eat meat AND wheat
simple logic
Your logic isn't registering, partly because you didn't make a point. If killing animals is viewed as wrong, what matters the mechanism in which they are killed?
vegetarians = animals killed meat eaters= animals killed
"simple logic" tells me they both kill animals, the very reason that vegetarianism is built on to be against.
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Infrared
sleeping


Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 12,988
Loc: Chicago, USA
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Re: vegetarians are killing animals [Re: myndreach]
#4272962 - 06/08/05 06:08 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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whatever. pick your poison. knock down trees to make land for animals, or to grow plants. what about the lumber industry? they sure as hell arent gonna go away.
of course we have to eat... genius deduction there. its not feezable to say that everyone should just grow their own food.. cause the majority of people cannont because they live in densly populated cities.
the only meat i eat is from free range animals, bought from organic markets. theres nothing wrong with eating an animal if that animal was treated humanily and given a s close to a normal life as possible.
-------------------- When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!


Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,083
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Re: vegetarians are killing animals [Re: Infrared]
#4273014 - 06/08/05 06:25 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Isn't the point of not eating meat to reduce the amount of animals being killed?
What a stupid arguement, "wheat kills some animals, so therefore there's no reason not to kill as many animals as we want".
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: vegetarians are killing animals [Re: Learyfan]
#4273033 - 06/08/05 06:31 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Isn't the point of not eating meat to reduce the amount of animals being killed?
I don't know learyfan, but I would wager one wouldn't eat meat because they think killing animals is wrong.
But, I'm glad you italicized "reduced", because that is exactly what the argument boils down to.
Now it isn't a matter of it being right/wrong to kill animals, just as long as you kill less then your neighbor the meateater. So honorable you veggies!!
But there is hope. If you really think killing animals in order to provide you food is murder, which is one of the worst crimes known to humanity, then DO something about.
Grow your own vegetables. Make sure no animals are killed, and eat a non-death lifestyle.
Now, how many vegetarians will do this? How many will stick to their belief that its wrong to kill?
Not many, I bet. They will just change their stance, like you did to fit their current argument of the day (how honorable!). It is now morally right to only kill less animals then someone else!
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: vegetarians are killing animals [Re: looner2]
#4273055 - 06/08/05 06:41 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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The problem is not that people are eating animals.
The problem is that we have already cut down half the rainforest to "make room" for cattle, and crops to raise those cattle. The rainforest. You know that little thing they call the "earth's lung".. that contains over 80% of the Earth's species.. or used to anyway.
The problem is that you can feed 7 people for a year with the amount of grain you would need to feed a cow for a year. The PROBLEM is that 70% of the crops grown in the US are used to feed animals, instead of starving people.
The problem is the millions of tons of animal feces we are polluting the rivers and groundwater with.
That's just the start of the problems. Vegetarians are not killing animals.. meat-eaters are destroying the world. No one needs to eat 50lbs of meat a year. Why do you think heart disease and obesity is the leading cause of death in amerikkka? Durrrr..
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: vegetarians are killing animals [Re: Shroomism]
#4273070 - 06/08/05 06:49 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks shroomism. I appreciate the complete dodge of the argument. Why? Because it proves vegetarians have nothing to say about "meat is murder". I hope I never have to hear it again, and if i do, it better be worded right, as in.. "YOUR KILLING MORE ANIMALS THEN ME, THEREFORE YOU ARE MORE EVIL THAN ME".
I love liberal "grey area" morality. It is just so, EASY!
Vegetarians are not killing animals.. meat-eaters are destroying the world. No one needs to eat 50lbs of meat a year. Why do you think heart disease and obesity is the leading cause of death in amerikkka? Durrrr..
Your wrong. I know your ideas on nutrition are heavily biased on your beliefs and whatnot from just reading your posts on nutrition. The whole, meat=heart disease myth has been discredited for about 10 years now. Meat is healthy, grain is not. You can fill yourself full of grain and enjoy a life of obesity and diabetes. I'll eat my cow flesh and grow strong and healthy.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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HELLA_TIGHT
Madge the Smoking Vag


Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 84,387
Loc: Afghanistan
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Re: vegetarians are killing animals [Re: Shroomism]
#4273073 - 06/08/05 06:49 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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I double cheeseburgers
but i'm skinny!
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 9 days
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Re: vegetarians are killing animals [Re: looner2]
#4273085 - 06/08/05 06:54 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Seriously. We've lived thousands upon thousands of years upon neing omnivores. One little blip on the face of history made by some people for whatever reason don't want to eat meat isn't going to make a different.
If anything, they will continue vegetarianism and be evolved out.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: vegetarians are killing animals [Re: looner2]
#4273089 - 06/08/05 06:56 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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I never said meat is murder.. even though it is  That's why I did not argue against it. I said that meat is unhealthy. The agriculture industry is unhealthy for the planet and our environment. Meat is unhealthy for the body in large quantities.
I still eat meat but far less than I used to. Ideally you only need 4oz a day or less. I don't plan on being obese anytime soon.. you enjoy your constipation
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: vegetarians are killing animals [Re: Shroomism]
#4273094 - 06/08/05 06:57 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Wouldn't harvesting plants be murder as well?
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: vegetarians are killing animals [Re: Redstorm]
#4273095 - 06/08/05 06:57 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Seriously. We've lived thousands upon thousands of years upon neing omnivores. One little blip on the face of history made by some people for whatever reason don't want to eat meat isn't going to make a different.
Especially considering our entire digestive system evolved over millions of years before our species even came into existence. Then, a few thousands years at the end of human existence and we start eat grain, bread, and cereal and become obese and diseased. But no, its the MEAT thats doing it.
People that use their beliefs as a justification of science and nutrition are seriously deluded and annoy me more than anything else.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: vegetarians are killing animals [Re: Redstorm]
#4273108 - 06/08/05 07:00 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: Seriously. We've lived thousands upon thousands of years upon neing omnivores. One little blip on the face of history made by some people for whatever reason don't want to eat meat isn't going to make a different.
If anything, they will continue vegetarianism and be evolved out.
Evolved out? What about cultures that have been primarily vegetarian for hundreds of years.. lets take India for example.. I don't see any de-evolution?
And what about Albert Einstein? was he an idiot that was going to be evolved out?
We've lived thousands of thousands of years eating a 90% fruits, vegetables, and legumes diet. Only in recent history has meat become so prevalent and readily available.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
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Re: vegetarians are killing animals [Re: Shroomism]
#4273114 - 06/08/05 07:03 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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I stand by my comment.
The docility of a culture who does not eat meat will eventually be stomped out in the warring world we live in today.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: vegetarians are killing animals [Re: Redstorm]
#4273117 - 06/08/05 07:05 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: Wouldn't harvesting plants be murder as well?
I'm not even making the meat is murder argument. But if you want to, ok.. no harvesting a plant is not murder. It grows from the ground. It does not have blood, and vital organs, and a nervous system. But I don't really care. If you are eating meat for survival, good for you. Just don't hunt the buffalos to extinction ok? Just don't destroy massive quantities of valuable natural resources to make room for your cows. Just don't dump all that pig shit into my river.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: vegetarians are killing animals [Re: Redstorm]
#4273131 - 06/08/05 07:08 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: I stand by my comment.
The docility of a culture who does not eat meat will eventually be stomped out in the warring world we live in today.

"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. "
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from that of their social environment. "
- Albert Einstein
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