gluke bastid said:

the_conservatarian said:

Now that the big government is taking over our lives, we can now all celebrate the fact that we are safe and comfy.

I feel good that the government now has an all-access-pass to my medical records.

---

The insurance companies, which still control health care in America after the passing of this bill, already had an all access pass to your medical records. There are no new developments here...Your medical privacy is just as non-existant as it ever was.

---

Mr.Al said:

appleorange said:

That's one thing I don't understand about liberals.

They'll talk all day about equal rights, legalizing pot, but they completely lose me when they think big government is somehow good.

---

I have pondered the same sort of thing.


The best idea I have thus far is that they trust government far more than the people.

It may be something along the lines of: "People are inherently wicked and need to be controlled by an external authority..."


Many pseudo-liberals are confused in that they think "rights" are somehow granted to people out of the loving-kindness of big brother government.

---

I'm a liberal. Excessively so, one might say. And I believe no such thing as ^this^. In my opinion, the government exists to provide service to the people-roads, rail, healthcare, education, home building, all that jazz. And that's it-it's a service provider. A government has no right, none at all to have any say in what I think, say, do, read, believe, practic, eat, drink, smoke, the lot. My personal freedom is sacrosanct and intervention is only permissable when the exercise of my personal freedom infringes on the practice of another person.

The government should exist at the behest of the people, exercising the power granted to them by the citizens to facilitate society. This includes all the services above. They should act unilaterally for the interests of their citizens, with no other agenda. Unfortunately, governments have been corrupted and consumed by capitalism-they run countries like big businesses. The needs and rights of the citizens are secondary to serving the interests of the wealthy corporations. They curtail rights and freedoms, pass laws favouring companies over individuals, hell, as mentioned above they take entire countries to war, against the majority opinion, for the sake of money.

This is fucked up and I don't think you'll find a liberal who defends that attitude.

Basically, I believe this:

skatardude10 said:

So I don't know what to say. I support legalizing drugs, letting people do what they want, and a minimal government to provide safety and security and actual positive benefits to society in return for all the taxes we pay.

I don't support the government meddling in all our shit.

Who am I ? I don't know WTF left or right, liberals or democrats is cause I don't watch corporate sponsored television. But we shouldn't force anyone to do anything or let someone die cause their too poor to pay $100000 for a couple stitches.

---

zappaisgod said:

Hardly.  More L. Ron Paulian bullshit.

---

Mr.Al said:

zappaisgod said:

Hardly.  More L. Ron Paulian bullshit.

---

That's what you say when you have nothing of substance to add.


You did not even make a half-assed attempt to refute that U.S. intelligence and diplomacy gave Saddam the green light to invade Kuwait.



You suck at "debunking".

---

Seuss said:

> As far as I can tell the bill will actually reduce the deficit over time. In effect it makes government smaller.

Yes, it reduces the deficit by raising taxes.  They tend to leave that little tidbit out...

Smaller government?  I'd love to hear you explain how increasing the size of government involvement in healthcare will somehow magically reduce the size of government. 

---

Smackshadow said:

I got about a half dozen stitches a few months back.  The bill came to over $600.  Luckily, I am fully ensured (only because my state passed a bill to keep me on my parents insurance for another 2 years), cost me a $10 copay.  $600 for 15 minutes of actual work and what 8 in. of string?  If that is what they are charging then it seems clear to me that the medical industry is operating in a competitive free environment.  Either that or actual medical care is increadibley inelastic and the greedy bastards are just screwing us.

---

Quote:

Personally I think the health care bill is a step in the right direction.  Insurance companies and the medical industry when left to their own devices have run amok.  Can I say for certain that the health care bill will work out for the best?  No, but I can say for certain that leaving it up to the companies that gain by denying coverage and over charging sick people would have made it much worse.

---

zappaisgod said:

Mr.Al said:

zappaisgod said:

Hardly.  More L. Ron Paulian bullshit.

---

That's what you say when you have nothing of substance to add.


You did not even make a half-assed attempt to refute that U.S. intelligence and diplomacy gave Saddam the green light to invade Kuwait.



You suck at "debunking".

---

Because the quote you offered doesn't come any where close to that.  Native English speaking people know that.

"We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960's, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America."

It takes a "special" kind of person to think that refers to an invasion.  All it says is, "you work it out."  I suppose you think any time a judge sends lawyers back to the bargaining table that means he is sanctioning that they have a shoot-out.  It doesn't take that much intelligence to discern that statement refers to diplomatic efforts but lunatics can, and will forever, provide their own meanings to statements that non-nutcases clearly see to mean something else entirely.

There was nothing to de-bunk.

---

Mr.Al said:

zappaisgod said:

Mr.Al said:

zappaisgod said:

Hardly.  More L. Ron Paulian bullshit.

---

That's what you say when you have nothing of substance to add.


You did not even make a half-assed attempt to refute that U.S. intelligence and diplomacy gave Saddam the green light to invade Kuwait.



You suck at "debunking".

---

Because the quote you offered doesn't come any where close to that.  Native English speaking people know that.

"We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960's, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America."

It takes a "special" kind of person to think that refers to an invasion.  All it says is, "you work it out."  I suppose you think any time a judge sends lawyers back to the bargaining table that means he is sanctioning that they have a shoot-out.  It doesn't take that much intelligence to discern that statement refers to diplomatic efforts but lunatics can, and will forever, provide their own meanings to statements that non-nutcases clearly see to mean something else entirely.

There was nothing to de-bunk.

---

You are full of it.  It is obvious in hindsight that Saddam was looking to see as to whether there would be an adverse U.S. reaction to his invasion of Kuwait.

We could have prevented needless warfare if he was told to leave Kuwait alone.

http://chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html

Instead his invasion of Kuwait was the pretense for our invasion of Iraq.

---

  Keep going Al.  Only nutogs would find that to be an obvious invitation to invade.  Complete and utter nutlogs.

Quote:

In regards to the special comment: you have stated that you prefer funny money as a medium of exchange because it's convenient.  The funny money loses buying power, over time becoming worthless.  Your only argument for such idiocy is the appeal to authority fallacy.  I think you are old enough to not need big brother government (or other stand-ins for mommy and daddy) to mold your opinions for you.

---

This again?  I didn't make an appeal to authority, Al.  The fucking vast majority of the population wants it and not your nutcase nonsense.  Any time you want to opt out of currency, you can.  Why do you think you can cram your stupid shit down people's throats?  If you don't like the current system DON'T FUCKING USE IT!  Carry around a bunch of fucking rocks.  I don't give a shit.