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Egoloss: Sober compared to Psychedelics?
    #10105346 -

I'm sure many people here have experienced egoloss on psychedelic drugs.
I am wondering how much buddhist/hindu/taoist egoloss resembles the egoloss experienced through psychedelics.

In which ways are they the same, in which ways do they differ?



And last but not least,
do you think it is possible to hold on to the egoloss (enlightenment)
achieved through a psychedelic trip... and therefor remain egoless forever, without further having to use any psychedelic substance ever again?

In other words,
do you think it is possible to let psychedelics help you to reach the top of the pyramid,
and when the psychedelics have long left your brain and blood,
to never descend to the lower levels again?

Do you think it is possible to reach the center of the circle with help of psychedelics,
and when the psychedelics have long left your brain and blood,
to never move away from this center again?



Very important edit to avoid unnecessary arguments:
with egolessness i don't mean to be completely without ego,
because i know that ego is necessary to an extent to operate in this world.

I just mean egolessness, in the sense that you realize that you are not the body, not the person... and this realization is coupled with immense blissful happiness and compassion.

Edited by lobotomix (04/04/09 02:56 PM)

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Re: Egoloss: Sober compared to Psychedelics? [Re: lobotomix]
    #10105424 -

yes and no
no and yes
there is no top of pyramid
egoloss is not enlightenment either
neither of them are permanent as functional mental operating plateus either.
an enlightenment or satori experience which transcends the limits of ego is possible in meditative absorption, achieved naturally, with or without practice, and with or without psychedelics.
in no instance is it permanent,
when a meditation student takes up the path of enlightenment or the middle way, however you prefer to call it, they adjust their life habits to cultivate more insight, and to get enlightenment into more of their activities, into more of their relationships and to more of their memories and associations, but it is always work of some sort.
it becomes lightweight work if done regularly, like sweeping patios.
some leaves or shit of one kind or another will blow into the patio area on a daily basis.
keep a nice broom handy
happy sweeping!


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Egoloss: Sober compared to Psychedelics? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #10105464 -

haha nice :smile:

love reading your posts redgreenvines


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Re: Egoloss: Sober compared to Psychedelics? [Re: lobotomix]
    #10105466 -

Ego loss is not enlightement, it's another way to live the world.

You were born with an ego, you might as well accept it.



I feel many here live psychedelics as one of the religions they criticize with so much contempt.

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Re: Egoloss: Sober compared to Psychedelics? [Re: Kukaracha]
    #10105497 -

Kukaracha said:
Ego loss is not enlightement, it's another way to live the world.

You were born with an ego, you might as well accept it.



I feel many here live psychedelics as one of the religions they criticize with so much contempt.


Enlightenment and Ego can be interpreted in different ways.
I meant to use the word "enlightenment" in the sense i meant to use the word "egoloss" 

:yoda2:

Edited by lobotomix (04/04/09 02:25 PM)

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Re: Egoloss: Sober compared to Psychedelics? [Re: lobotomix]
    #10105657 -

I personally don't think there is such thing as enlightenment.  The psychedelic experience has tought me that the universe is beyond my ability to even conceive or imagine.  I think "enlightenment" is the feeling you get when you close your eyes while tripping and hone in on the vibes of the world.  Made of love and cosmic wierdness.  The feeling of being.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Egoloss: Sober compared to Psychedelics? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10105692 -

Cognitive_Shift said:
I personally don't think there is such thing as enlightenment.  The psychedelic experience has tought me that the universe is beyond my ability to even conceive or imagine.  I think "enlightenment" is the feeling you get when you close your eyes while tripping and hone in on the vibes of the world.  Made of love and cosmic wierdness.  The feeling of being.


well, apparently you have experienced "enlightenment" yourself then.
what enlightenment means to one person may be different than to the next.
i already explained what i sort of mean with the term "enlightenment".

so people, seriously.
please try to answer my questions about "egoloss"... and how "egoloss" sober interrelates with "egoloss" on psychedelics.

:smile:

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Re: Egoloss: Sober compared to Psychedelics? [Re: lobotomix]
    #10105706 -

Yes i think psychedelics can SHOW you the top of the pyramid.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Egoloss: Sober compared to Psychedelics? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10105829 -

you can see anything you like.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Egoloss: Sober compared to Psychedelics? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #10105837 -

You can see anything you want, but sometimes you need to be shown.  I think the message of the past 3000 years is that one cannot do it alone.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Egoloss: Sober compared to Psychedelics? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10105867 -

Cognitive_Shift said:
You can see anything you want, but sometimes you need to be shown.  I think the message of the past 3000 years is that one cannot do it alone.


:thumbup:


--------------------
What, you ask, was the beginning of it all?  And it is this...

Existence that multiplied itself
For sheer delight of being
And plunged into numberless trillions of forms
So that it might
Find
Itself
Innumerably.
-Sri Aubobindo

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Re: Egoloss: Sober compared to Psychedelics? [Re: Kukaracha]
    #10105977 -

Kukaracha said:
Ego loss is not enlightement, it's another way to live the world.

You were born with an ego, you might as well accept it.



I feel many here live psychedelics as one of the religions they criticize with so much contempt.



--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Egoloss: Sober compared to Psychedelics? [Re: lobotomix]
    #10107386 -

On this subject everyone has their own theory.  Psychedelics are unique in that they open doors that meditation can't.  Once you go through the door and gain control of your ego, You inhabit both worlds.  Psychedelics get you started, but you move past that quickly.  The subconscious mind is a separate reality, as real as the conscious ego. We have abilities that we are failing to use, but everybody is content that there is nothing left to discover.

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Re: Egoloss: Sober compared to Psychedelics? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #10118241 -

Well said!!

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Re: Egoloss: Sober compared to Psychedelics? [Re: Kukaracha]
    #10118396 -

Ego loss is not enlightement, it's another way to live the world.

Right...it's called humility. Meekness is not timidity, but it is the opposite of obnoxious aggressiveness which is a personality armored with ego-defenses.

Psychoses can develop 'regression in the service of the ego,' in which unconscious contents emerge like an uncontrolled lava flow, pushing all conscious control of thoughts, images and emotions aside. Psychosis is certainly not enlightenment. Enlightenment is not characterized by ego-inflation either. Megalomaniacal 'gurus' who are all about sex and power/money are further from enlightenment than the average person. They live in and for the lower centers of motivation. The non-egoic mind manifests as Paul described love in 1 Corinthians 13:4-8

Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 
or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 
it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 
Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.  - 1 Corinthians 13:4-7


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Egoloss: Sober compared to Psychedelics? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #10121134 -

In general folks come down from trips, at which time they will most likely be subject to the same surroundings and life style as before.

People who are serious about meditation start by changing their life style. This is like building a foundation. Or like walking to work and building muscles, as opposed to taking the bus. When the bus breaks they can still get to work.

For a more subtle clarification of what 'self' is, this link may be helpful:

http://www.shinzen.org/

click on "Articles"

then click on

"Meditation and the Self"...The Buddha said that there is no thing called the self. Then who meditates?...

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Re: Egoloss: Sober compared to Psychedelics? [Re: laughingdog]
    #10121431 -

mark, in moving the concept to humility, you shift everything, and you highlight everything:
me - ego death is fallacy, ego and body are self
jethro - ego and body are tools for self to explore universe
lobotomix - egolessness is a goal but is it the same goal for everyone
cognitive - 5000 years of pursuit of the goal is proof enough for me
icelander - i have seen the ego, and it is quite fetching, so is my dog
laughingdog - having seen how things are, you practice meditation so you can see them again, you meditate, but "who meditates?"

I am resolving that self is ego + body, people seek egolessness in trying to understand buddha, humility seems to be less ego, can it be taken all the way as to eradicate ego>>>>

me- see ego as it is, an operational aspect of mind-body existence
mark- through humility you (self) escape the domination of ego.

I think mr.clean will not get you where you want to go, but it may serve to improve conduct in the short term.
they say, "practice makes perfect"


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Egoloss: Sober compared to Psychedelics? [Re: lobotomix]
    #10121452 -

lobotomix said:
I'm sure many people here have experienced egoloss on psychedelic drugs.
I am wondering how much buddhist/hindu/taoist egoloss resembles the egoloss experienced through psychedelics.

In which ways are they the same, in which ways do they differ?



And last but not least,
do you think it is possible to hold on to the egoloss (enlightenment)
achieved through a psychedelic trip... and therefor remain egoless forever, without further having to use any psychedelic substance ever again?

In other words,
do you think it is possible to let psychedelics help you to reach the top of the pyramid,
and when the psychedelics have long left your brain and blood,
to never descend to the lower levels again?

Do you think it is possible to reach the center of the circle with help of psychedelics,
and when the psychedelics have long left your brain and blood,
to never move away from this center again?




It can be realized sober & permanently, but you can't trip on psychedelics, come to a state of egoloss, then keep that permanently, you have to find it sober.

Dabbling in psychedelics usually shows an interest in trascending the causal boundaries we have around us, the mind, those boundaries have to be transcended with no help from anything or anyone in order to reach that permanent state, only you can do it, nothing & nobody can hand you to yourself.

Reaching the centre of the circle... you already are the centre, your attention is merely elsewhere, just bring your attention back to the centre, the one who sees

The bliss that you will come to know is incomparable to any tripping experience

:peace:


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Re: Egoloss: Sober compared to Psychedelics? [Re: Chronic7]
    #10121529 -

i get a foggy notion that you mean permanent centeredness and permanent bliss, or are you teasing?


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Egoloss: Sober compared to Psychedelics? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #10121543 -

Permanent bliss always

:peace:


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