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 pattern
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 A Theory of Psychedelics 
#758779 - 07/19/02 09:08 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Theory of Psychedelics:
The Combinatorial Evolution of Human Intelligence via
Symbiotic Catalysis with Entheogenic Molecules
by David Glen Kerr
Humans descended from primates. Charles Darwin enlightened humanity as to where we came from, by proposing that evolution occurred via natural selection. Humans evolved from primate ancestors, and they from mammals, and mammals from reptiles, and so on. Plants and other vegetation, which humans symbiotically depend on for nutrition necessary to live, have been on Earth during every step of our descent. Darwin saw an abstract pattern in nature: immense biological sequences increasing in complexity over time via evolution, feeding and building off each other, leading to organisms with brains that are artistic, creative, and intelligent. Why have primates evolved into man? Our ancestors utilized molecular tools for the mind, and these catalyzed the evolution of their brains.
The greatest divergence between primate and man is the mind, not the body. The human brain is significantly bigger, better, and more complex than the primate brain. In the bodies the differences are primarily of degree; hence, it is our brains that classify our separation from other simians. The brain is made of specialized segments, which are divided into cells, neurons, axons, synapses, and other parts. These are all made of molecular structures and chemicals, founded on atoms, protons, neutrons, fermions, bosons, quarks, etc. It is on the molecular and neuronal level that we are able to turn to today to find answers about our consciousness.
As simian brains increased in spatial volume, they increased in beneficial complexity, by using the additional mass as material with which to transform. The brain was catalyzed to achieve this end, and it used catalysts found in naturally occurring materials. These substances have been termed psychoactive drugs: sugar, nicotine, chocolate, caffeine, alcohol, psilocin, cannabanoids, mescaline, morphine, ibogaine, DMT, cocaine, theobromine, LSA, MAOIs, and so on. The brain?s neural network uses these chemicals to provide a physical means to modify and create new thoughts, which enhances reasoning and creativity. It is in the brain of the animal that uses these tools properly, which successfully evolved sentience. Simians were able to evolve adaptations to an environment where mushrooms and other plants around them were literal food for thought.
A conceptual expression for this theory is:
Humans = Primates + Psychedelics
The psychoactive mushroom (Amanitas, p. cubensis, et al) contains psilocybin, which the body purposely converts into psilocin to be used by the synapses in the frontal cortex. A few hours later the body removes psilocin from the blood by releasing anti-tryptamines. In this state psilocin has been termed psychedelic, which etymologically translates to ?mind-manifesting?: psyche, ?mind,? and delic, ?manifesting?. Yet the word has been deeply misused, giving the impression that the mushroom produces psychedelic experiences. It does not. The mushroom simply harbors a molecule, which does not do anything interesting per say. Psilocin is only psychedelic when the brain uses it.
The first higher order simians were born in Africa and were black. They discovered the mushroom on the ground and ate it as food, perhaps as a part of routine vegetation foraging, or perhaps they were starving since the mushroom isn?t pleasant tasting. Their synapses began receiving psilocin, causing neurons to light up like fireworks, which made their brain operate so fast that time appeared to slow down. Intense thoughts occurred, creating beautiful hallucinated visions, overwhelmed by the ecstatic feeling of worldly connection. These simians would have acted in new and bizarre ways that formed social bonding. They had thoughts so complex that they were unable to be held in memory. This behavior created selection pressure on the monkeys, causing evolution of better brains, in order to understand each other?s actions. At some point, they realized the mushroom was causing these experiences, and could regulate their dietary intake.
The serotonin (5-HT) class of synaptic receptors, which accept psilocin and other entheogens, are structures in the frontal cortex that allow us to perform higher cognitive functions. Natural selection favored production of these structures, because the more that the brain had, the better it could use psilocin. Thus the smarter it was, sober or intoxicated. Hangover effects from pure mushroom experiences are soft, especially when compared to hard drugs such as alcohol and cocaine. This is because the brain has evolved to handle psychedelics. The pineal gland, sitting in the center of every human brain, may be the producer of endogenous DMT in humans, the most potent psychedelic tryptamine known.
Mushroom and entheogenic plant consumption has gone on throughout the entire of human history, including today. These plants are not poisonous, but they contain powerful tools, and therefore are dangerous. Use the right tool for the right job! If humans eat these psychedelic plants under improper conditions, their experiences will be terrible and therefore damaging to the psyche. Fortunately, shamans throughout history have provided a proper outlet for these experiences. Humans who are otherwise ignorant to psychedelics have had a means to constructively experience conscious-expanding states.
The smartest and most successful cultures are the ones consuming the most variety of drugs, and are defined and limited, harnessed and hampered by the drugs they do and how they do them. How a drug is used is more important than the drug itself. A society?s history of drug use contributes to their society today. Caffeine and nicotine spread all over the world, as did alcohol and the wisdom to ferment it from plant fruit. The USA has a high array of drug use, including legendary LSD consumption. All these drugs are used to alter the mind in order to gain additional perspectives, new ways to think. Without them, humanity would not be as intelligent as we are today.
Drugs are making humanity smarter. We are already creating new psychedelic tools: MDMA, LSD, 2C-B, 2C-T-7, in addition to pain relievers, anti-depressants, and a long list of other pharmaceutical chemicals and medicines. The true benefits lie in consumption of varieties, not large quantities. It is in precise and responsible use, and in the realization that every drug has unique effects. Each drug has a different use and different purpose. Alcohol enhances socialization, caffeine enhances logic, cannabis enhances abstraction, psilocin enhances creativity, and so on. At the same time, every drug has downsides and negative effects, which can be minimized or eliminated through careful use.
Psychedelics change the way individuals think, and therefore the way individuals act. Their actions, words, and attitudes affect those around them. This process is how psychedelic drugs indirectly affect the minds of those who do not even ingest them or believe in their existence. Howard Bloom?s vision of a global brain provides an excellent framework in which to understand this effect. As one person changes behavior, the people in the social network adjust to adapt. The influence spirals outwards and decreases over distance.
Terrence McKenna proposed the idea of mushrooms affecting human evolution. If true, this theory predicts that when apes are fed a proper diet of mushrooms, they will become smarter. The diet must be considered carefully. It must not be force fed or given in large doses. It must be naturally eaten and not injected, and proper set and setting must be given. Behavioral changes will give rise to increased adaptive intelligence over generations, and will even cause advantage in the first generation. This kind of research has not been conducted yet.
PS. The original formula is "Man=Ape+Mushroom", or "Man=Monkey+Mushroom"
Edited by pattern (01/15/07 03:06 PM)
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Anonymous
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 Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
#758850 - 07/19/02 09:40 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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monkey eats shroom...monkey sees bunch of colors and shapes...monkey thinks 'what are these things!?!'.....  just one thought provoking experience mushrooms could make on something
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akyouser_oner
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: ]
#758870 - 07/19/02 09:49 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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unfortunately, man is NOT decended from ape. they are closely related, but follow totally different evolutionary lines...
yeah, yeah... too much discovery channel i know... 
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-akyouser.oner
<(((((((((((((((@~~~
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pattern
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: akyouser_oner]
#758920 - 07/19/02 10:15 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I assume you deem "ape" to mean "gorilla", which was not my intent.
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man = monkey + mushroom
Edited by pattern (07/24/02 05:13 PM)
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Anonymous
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
#758982 - 07/19/02 10:39 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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That arguement doesn't even matter because we all know we evolved from something atleast similar to an ape, because apes are not as complex as humans are but share very similar qualities. The primitive 'ape' we evolved from probably no longer exists but if it did I'm sure we would consider it just another damn monkey.
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pattern
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: ]
#760100 - 07/19/02 07:36 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Are you implying that it wasnt apes that evolved via shrooms, but a more recent ancestor?
I'm proposing it is an expontential evolution: ~8 million years ago, apes began eating a few, then their descendants ate more, and their descendants ate more, and so on, until ~50,000 years ago, shroom consumption per capita reached its peak. Human brain evolution rocketed forward!
If that is true, with the population explosion of the recent 10,000 and 100 years, it will take time for shrooms and other psychedelics to rebalance themselves in the global human diet.
JUST A THEORY !
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man = monkey + mushroom
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 Mystical_Craven
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my two cents [Re: pattern]
#760626 - 07/19/02 10:41 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've had that same theory for a lot of years now (even before I started taking shrooms) just as I'm sure about a billion other people have. What lead me to this whole theory in the first place though is (oddly enough) a show I once saw on the Discovery Channel about leapords or pumas or some shit like that. Anyways - they had mentioned something about these cats being known to eat certain psychoactive sages in order to increase the amount of light they recieved (pupil dialation) so that they could see prey easier in the night. I thought it was kind of odd that humans weren't the only ones using psychedelics, and that got me thinking about whether or not early man did the same thing. So I did some looking into it and found out that the eating patterns of early human beings (or more specifically whatever the fuck we were called before we became 'according to hoyal' human beings) differed greatly from similar ape-like species from the same time period. Apparently there was a large number of pre-human type apes running around in jungles eating plants and fruits and shit, and there was another group of slightly different pre-human type apes that were much more omnivorous. The omnivorous ones eventually spread out from the jungles and evolved into early man, and the others stayed behind and evolved into gorrilas and chimps and what have you.
Now, obviously the change in diet wasn't what caused the separation of the species, that was a result of something else. What 'else' that specifically is is highly debatable.....but considering the fact that proof exists that psychedelics can assist in hunting, I'd say it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to assume that these omnivorous apes were doing exactly that (e.g. psychedelics = incresed pupil dialation = more light reaches back of eye = easier to hunt prey at night when most animals are more vulnerable = less dependence on jungle habitat = increased exploration into new terrain types/territories = forced intellectual advancement to cope with new terrain = and so on and so on) I suppose the only real question left would be whether or not these early pre-human ape-like ancestor thing-a-ma-schmucks consciously knew what the hell they were doing when they first initially started learning about the helpful nature of psychoactive plants. My guess would be probably not. I would assume that many of them most likely stumbled upon sage (or something else of that nature) and had some mild trips without even realizing it...or in the very least, not have made the correlation between their increased senses and some unknown plant they had eaten earlier. Mushrooms, on the other hand, are easily recognizable (in the sense that they are not plants) and quite probably more potent in smaller doses. So I would imagine that if one of these 'apes' were to see a patch of mushrooms lying around and then start trippin out after eating em, it wouldn't be too difficult for that particular ape to realize exactly what it was that made him trip so damn hard (especially if it was the first time he had ever eaten any kind of mushroom species) Chances are he wouldn't be using em for hunting or anything else like that right away though, but rather enjoying the experience and wondering what it all meant. Sooner or later he'd figure out exactly what to look for and would be using them as often as possible...this of course would lead to the inevitable discovery that these magikal little shroomies are not only fun but also helpful as well. He'd tell his friends and family about em (and would naturally be looked down upon as a druggie) but would eventually find a few others that were curious enough to try em as well...and this of course leads straight to the greatest discovery of all time - the lava lamp.
Wait a minute
Forget everything I just said...I was way off on a tangent there.
(I guess I got a bit carried away, huh?)
Anyways -
The point is that if apes were to eat psychedelic shrooms and see visions and what not, they'd likely try to recreate the event out of pure curiousity. Sooner or later they'd realize that the shrooms were the cause of these visions and they'd start seeking them out specifically. Over time they'd get a better understanding of the shroom itself and learn about it's usefulness. This would then lead to everything previously mentioned before I got amtracked. So in essence, mankind's seperation from the greater ape family could very well have been a direct result of an ancient species of a very well known (and loved) species of fungus...even if the exact nature of this mankind/mushroon relationship was accidental.
Disclaimer: I'm tired as fuck right now and most likely speaking out of my ass. Take everything I've written in this post as nothing more then psycho-babble produced from severe sleep deprivation. I appologize in advance if it is incoherent, illegible, missplelled, mispunctuated, and/or incomprehensible in any way shape or form.
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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot
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Swami
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If I had to hunt or was being hunted, I would want to be stone cold sober. The negative side-effects of a mushroom intoxication (as relates to extreme physical exertion) far outweigh the increased night vision. This fact alone tends to destroy that whole myth.
As always, I would put money on this as it can be fairly easily tested.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Mystical_Craven
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hhmmm... [Re: Swami]
#760721 - 07/20/02 12:44 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Perhaps you overlooked this one little detail:
I was trying to point out that shrooms were most likely not used for hunting purposes from the start, but rather early man was drawn to psychedelic shrooms for a different reason and that only after they became more aware of it's usefulness (in small doses) did they start using them for hunting.
You are right about them having negative side-effects though, and I agree that the physical assertion (as well as distortion of reality and other such trademarks of a shroom trip) would in fact become more of a hindrance then an aid...but I also believe that in smaller doses the side-effects would not only be marginal in the sense that they would not effect hunting performance enough to outway the added light being made availible to the beshroomed individual, but also possibly even prove to be helpful in the sense that low doses usually result in a somewhat more alert state of being. As long as these early pre-human apes could learn enough to know when to stop before they took too much, they'd be able to use these shrooms (as well as any other psychedelic plants they might happened to learn about along the way) to better their situation as a whole.
Of course (as I said earlier) this is just a theory of mine...and if you choose to believe I'm full of crap, so be it. I'm basically just responding because I'm thinking I might not have been as clear as I had originally thought I was. I guess I just assumed that most people would realize that large doses would just fuck with a primate's mind, and that they'd have to learn proper dosage before it could become utilized as a constructive tool. But you know what they say about assumptions.
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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot
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Swami
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The main trouble with a theory like this, is that there is precious little to back it up. It is almost pure conjecture so the discussion cannot go very far. It is a fun idea to play with, but that is about it.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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Re: hhmmm... [Re: Swami]
#760929 - 07/20/02 04:01 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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The main trouble with a theory like this, is that there is precious little to back it up.
If you only acknowledge the theories that have a large amount of info to back them up then think of everything you're not acknowledging. We don't nearly know everything so when we get something with 'precioues little' backing it up, it should not be ignored.
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pattern
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 Re: hhmmm... [Re: ]
#761133 - 07/20/02 05:39 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks for these great replies!!!
Mushrooms for hunting! I see why you propose this, and it probably did happen.
Do you think it's possible that they ate the mushrooms BEFORE they went hunting? I mean, after a good trip, you can feel very energetic and alive. That seems the best time to hunt. Perhaps they developed a shamanic ritual for this purpose: shaman distributes shrooms, they get all pumped up and trip out, dance around and pump each other up, and then after the drug wears off the warriors run off to hunt.
Swami: it is only conjecture, but if it is true, or false, then there will be evidence in reality to prove it either way. The problem with theories is they are ahead of evidence; the evidence comes later. IMO, DNA comparisons prove the theory of evolution. A scientific understanding of the brain will reveal the validity of this theory.
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man = monkey + mushroom
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erectronik
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 Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
#761205 - 07/20/02 06:09 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'd have to say I'm more interested in how already evolved human cultures were affected by their drug use ("how" and not "which") than whether or not shrooms did in fact spur our upward climb. Interesting and inspiring, dude.
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"Hallucinogens can be like talking to a really talented salesman: beware of what you can sell yourself." - J.L.C.
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whiterastahippie
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awesome thread. (bump)
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Peace and Love to all!
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AcursedRedDragon
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
#767879 - 07/22/02 01:58 PM (22 years, 1 month ago) |
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were u shrooming when u thought of this? thats what it sounds like....
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pattern
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I wasnt shrooming at the time! I went on three trips in a period of a week, and in the following six months I created this theory to explain my trips.
I believe that the effects that the shrooms had on my brain made me smarter, and that same effect has happened to others. How can this be? Why would a bunch of molecules make a human smarter? This theory is the best reason I can think of to explain it.
But I could be wrong!!! Maybe the shrooms made me dumber and I cant tell cuz I turned into an idiot
What do you guys think? Is this theory possibly true??
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man = monkey + mushroom
Edited by pattern (07/29/03 01:49 AM)
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whiterastahippie
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
#768780 - 07/22/02 06:57 PM (22 years, 1 month ago) |
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dude this theory is like an improvement on timothy leary. seriously. i've sent it to every body in my address book.
bravo
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whiterastahippie
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
#768817 - 07/22/02 07:07 PM (22 years, 1 month ago) |
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one thing though. psycedelic doesn't mean mind enlargening. it means mind manifesting.
psychephoric, mind moving; psychehormic, mind rousing; and psycheplastic, mind molding. Psychezynic, mind fermenting, is indeed appropriate. Psycherhexic, mind bursting forth, though difficult, is memorable. Psychelytic, mind releasing, is satisfactory. My choice, because it is clear, euphonious, and uncontaminated by other associations, is psychedelic, mind manifesting. One of these terms should serve. (the psychedelic library www.druglibrary.org) just uh....fyi. 
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Peace and Love to all!
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Ganja_Farmer
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In canada it is illegal to sweat lemonade and pile velcro at the same time.
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whiterastahippie
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: Ganja_Farmer]
#768957 - 07/22/02 07:56 PM (22 years, 1 month ago) |
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dude. um. wow, that's cool. i like your pic too.  peace man.
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chemkid
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 Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
#769243 - 07/22/02 11:10 PM (22 years, 1 month ago) |
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Just so you know.....Ape is not a genus or species....it is a very generic term applied to all primates except humans.
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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.
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LOBO
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Re: hhmmm... [Re: pattern]
#769464 - 07/23/02 03:26 AM (22 years, 1 month ago) |
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It is very possible, there is a tribe in the amazon, that takes the secreations of a toad, and get into a trance, they say it helps them hunt at night, and that they hunt with there spirit.
I have seen this in the discovery channel.
I am sure using shrooms, lets say level 2 trip will do the same thing.
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whiterastahippie
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: chemkid]
#769467 - 07/23/02 03:28 AM (22 years, 1 month ago) |
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sorry braa, but ape is a species man. peace braa!
Apes are classified in the Linnean System as follows:
Kingdom Animalia (all animals)
Phylum Chordata
Subphylum Vertebrata (animals with backbones)
Class Mammalia (warm-blooded animals with fur and mammary glands)
Order Primates (which is comprised of 11 families, including lemurs, monkeys, marmosets, lesser apes, great apes, and humans)
Family Pongidae (the great apes, including gorillas, chimpanzees, bonobos, and orangutans)
Genus Pongo (orangutans)
Species pygmaeus
Subspecies (perhaps a subspecies) P. p. pygmaeus (with a round face and dark red hair; found in Borneo)
Subspecies (perhaps a subspecies) P. p. abelii (with a narrow face and paler hair; found in Sumatra)
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Peace and Love to all!
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Salvia
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Difference between humans and apes(or monkeys or whatever): awareness of self.
Difference between humans and drug-using humans: awareness of awareness of self
Difference between drug-using humans and enlightened humans: awareness of the absence of self.
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Anonymous
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
#770268 - 07/23/02 10:22 AM (22 years, 1 month ago) |
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yeah, mckenna wrote something like that too... sounds like a fun theory, but damn far fetched. the theory of evolution is crap... really, it's SCIENTIFICALLY impossible.... so i can't really subscribe to these kinds of ape+mushroom=man theories... read a little about evolution... it's not a creation vs. evolution, religion vs. science issue... i'm not the least bit christian... but really, evolution is one of the most thoroughly dispersed and widely believed myths ever invented. just do the math... evolution as described by science would have about the same chance of producing life as we now see it as a tornado sweeping through a juckyard and assembling a car. yeah, just my evolution rant.
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buttonion
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: Salvia]
#770457 - 07/23/02 11:31 AM (22 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's pretty good...
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Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein
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whiterastahippie
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 Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: ]
#771265 - 07/23/02 05:16 PM (22 years, 1 month ago) |
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well, no dude, evolution is totally possible (read gerald schroeder's "the science of God" it will blow your mind. or his other: evolution and the big bang.) but as everything else in the universe. it needs something to start it. that's why i prescribe to things such as God(s) controlled or started evolution.
i really really really like this theory by david kerr. but i might have more of a base for it. i suggest everyone at least make a brief visit to the psycedelic library at http://www.psychedelic-library.org/
and read some of the fan fucking tastic things there. awesome stuff, great tests and cool theories...ah cho! look at me, i'm turning into a commercial. hey, that's where i got my signature too.
kaya love is a higha love
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Peace and Love to all!
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Mystical_Craven
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mushmaster [Re: ]
#771863 - 07/23/02 08:55 PM (22 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think you might be confusing scientific impossibility with mathmatical improbability. Just because something is unlikely to happen doesn't mean that it is unable to happen. Take your tornado for instance: the possibility of that actually happening may be so infindescimally miniscule that it's not even worth looking into, but that doesn't mean that the possibility isn't there. Even if that possibility is only one in infinity, sooner or later you'd get your results. The same goes for evolution - just because it doesn't seem practical enough to be correct you can't assume that it isn't.
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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot
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whiterastahippie
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also remember this:
scientist's. they thought they knew it all, but then they made the hubble. now they know they don't know shit.
at one point the world was thought to be the center of the universe. it was also thought to be flat. but do we believe those things? never pass something off as impossible. be it evolution, the existence or lack thereof of God, or the fact that old junker in your yard may run again...nothing is impossible in an infinate universe my braa.
i'm a rebel, soul rebel. i'm a ganja'er, soul adventurer. see the morning sun, on the hillside, not living good? travel awhile... say i'm not leavin mon, i got work to do, if you're not happy children, then you must be blue. bob marley
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Peace and Love to all!
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36963
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
#772691 - 07/24/02 08:10 AM (22 years, 1 month ago) |
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first i would like to say that i like your theory it is insightfull and opens my mind to new possobilities i have a few things to say aobut it thou one you seem to base the way that the pre-evolved human was thinking with the way that we think today we live in a world where we have time to think aobut what we want to eat in the world of evolution the chance to eat comes sudenly and has to be pounced upon when it comes, has the Psychedelic mushroom even been around that long or is it a new form of mushroom one that has evolved recently, is it possible for spores to make it through the digestive track of a primate to spawn at the other end( that would be a good renewable source for the primates mushroom hunger) and what do oyu think the effects of mushrooms could be on a smaller brain size would they huallicinate or would they just have a better grasp on the world around them, i can see how small doese could help primates hunt thou if they where to see mild trails they would have a better way of knowing what was moving around in the dark or even auras if you believe in such things i had a qeustion about how they would know whether or not that a certain type of mushroom would give the proper effects but even chimps know what goodies they can get out of an anthill
thats all from me for now i apologize for the murder of the language
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AcursedRedDragon
Legacy ofBrutality
Registered: 07/01/02
Posts: 719
Loc: Opium Den
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: 36963]
#774030 - 07/24/02 04:49 PM (22 years, 1 month ago) |
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"The science is more complicated underneath the generalized formula. The psychoactive mushroom (Amanitas, p. cubensis) contains psilocybin, which the body PURPOSELY converts into psilocin to be used by the synapses in the frontal cortex. A few hours later the body releases anti-tryptamines in order to remove the psilocin from the blood. In this state psilocin has been termed ?psychedelic?, which means ?mind-enlarging?. Yet the word has been misused to give the impression that the mushroom produces psychedelic experiences. It does not. The mushroom simply contains a molecule, which doesn?t do anything interesting per say. It is only psychedelic when the brain uses it. Psilocin is not the only chemical contributing to human evolution, there are others, but the mushroom is distinct."
Purposely converts into psilocin? u sure it purposely does that?
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pattern
multiplayer
Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: 36963]
#774113 - 07/24/02 05:12 PM (22 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks for the corrections all!  There was alot of argument about the use of the word "ape". Well, I admit to being ignorant of the literal definition, so I'll use the word "primate", even though it sounds funny Damn dictionaries!
I'm not sure what mushrooms do to an ape brain, but I imagine at large doses it would cause hallucinations: probably ones that make no sense to the ape, so a lower dosage would be required. The effects on thought would be the key: allowing the brain to form longer chains of thought, as well as new chains of thought.
These thoughts could then be used to advantage in whatever environment the ape is in... provided it has already lived in that environment for a long time and has become intimate with it. Doing new things for the first time while on psychedelics is to be avoided. The real benefit is in using psychedelics to do familiar things in new ways!
Pupil dilation would give advantage in nocturnal hunting... yet I dont think that hunting alone could give rise to higher intelligence. Hunting gets the apes more food  Which is a good thing, but a secondary thing, if you take my meaning.
Lastly, mushrooms and entheogenic plants have been around longer than us, and we are not the only species that eats them. Various species of mammals eat them: deer, bears, cows, etc. Perhaps dinosaurs couldn't evolve sentience because they didn't eat the right vegetables? 
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man = monkey + mushroom
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pattern
multiplayer
Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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"Purposely converts into psilocin? u sure it purposely does that?"
I'm not sure of any of this, it is a theory with no evidence 
I said that, because we could have evolved any number of methods to remove psilocybin completely, or not convert it. Instead, humans convert psilocybin to psilocin. So, evolutionarily speaking, humans purposely convert psilocybin. Just like our bodies purposely digest specific molecules out of food and shit the rest out! Its an adaptation that we've kept because it benefits us.
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man = monkey + mushroom
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whiterastahippie
lover
Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 718
Loc: look into a child's eyes,...
Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
#774293 - 07/24/02 06:13 PM (22 years, 1 month ago) |
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and there's no doubt the same drugs that effect us affect animals. dog's get high (canine) cat's get high (feline) apes (and i use it in the sense of the word i desribed earlier) especially chimps have been known to smoke cig's and even become addicted much like us. also, the structure of the ape body is more similar to ours than any other species on the planet.
and if the prehistoric man were to eat the shrooms and shit them out, they wouldn't pass through the system, but the spores would probably find the shit jsut like they do in cow fields.
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Peace and Love to all!
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emex
amigo
Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 90
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
#775840 - 07/25/02 10:53 AM (22 years, 1 month ago) |
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i havent read all the posts yet so im not sure if anyone recommended this book yet so ill say it anyways =p
i recommend anyone interested in this read Food of the Gods. they cover this subject pluss much much more =)
good book
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I had not expected fear, but terror came with her
and tho I sought a dying moment, she showed me a dying eternity
and tho I sought to bring wisdom into the real, she tore the real from me
and I was no more, and in unbeing, I lost my fear
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3eyedgod
trippinkid
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Posts: 684
Loc: Far away and very near
Last seen: 21 years, 1 month
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: Salvia]
#1141122 - 12/14/02 12:52 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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Difference between humans and apes(or monkeys or whatever): awareness of self.
I don't know about all of the non human primates but, chimpanzees are definately aware of themselves. There have been studies. If you put a dab of paint on a chimps forhead and then show it a mirror, it tries to wipe the paint off it's forhead. It recognizes the image in the mirror as itself.
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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself
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3eyedgod
trippinkid
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Posts: 684
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: 3eyedgod]
#1141126 - 12/14/02 12:54 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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I didn't realize how old this thread was. OOPS! my bad. Didn't mean to bump it over that
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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself
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Murex
Reality Hacker
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Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 17 years, 12 days
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Re: my two cents [Re: Swami]
#1141172 - 12/14/02 01:19 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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Actually, Low doses can increase the senses, allowing for better cordination, vision, etc. I saw a TV show where this scientest guy gave one Judo fighter a low dose of shrooms and another (the opponent) a placebo. The result was that the guy who was on the shrooms was drastically able to subdue the oponent more often. Note that they were sparing before the mushrooms were introuduced as well and were considered equal fighters.
That program also showed a historical thing in africa, where an african tribe won a battle against the Brittish when they were outnumbered (and using spears, not guns). They also knew that the shamans gave the fighters mushrooms before the battle.
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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?
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pattern
multiplayer
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Posts: 2,185
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: 3eyedgod]
#1141241 - 12/14/02 01:44 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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> chimpanzees are definately aware of themselves
Dolphins are aware of themselves in front of a mirror as well.
Also, I think my dog is too!  lol
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man = monkey + mushroom
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Murex
Reality Hacker
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Posts: 3,599
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
#1141245 - 12/14/02 01:45 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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Do dolphins have mamory glands? 
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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?
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pattern
multiplayer
Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: 3eyedgod]
#1141249 - 12/14/02 01:46 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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> I didn't realize how old this thread was. OOPS! my bad. Didn't mean to bump it over that
3eyedgod! u funny guy!!! you replied to the very first post i made!
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man = monkey + mushroom
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pattern
multiplayer
Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
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Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: my two cents [Re: Murex]
#1141270 - 12/14/02 01:52 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Actually, Low doses can increase the senses, allowing for better cordination, vision, etc. I saw a TV show where this scientest guy gave one Judo fighter a low dose of shrooms and another (the opponent) a placebo. The result was that the guy who was on the shrooms was drastically able to subdue the oponent more often. Note that they were sparing before the mushrooms were introuduced as well and were considered equal fighters.
That program also showed a historical thing in africa, where an african tribe won a battle against the Brittish when they were outnumbered (and using spears, not guns). They also knew that the shamans gave the fighters mushrooms before the battle.
wow I wanna see that TV show... yesterday I saw a show on shamans in the amazon, it was pretty good. There was this white guy who hung out with the shamans, and offered to write their plant knowledge onto paper, so they could sell it to pharmacuetical companies
playing computer games on low doses of shrooms (or LSD), often times results in a severe asskickin to your competitors.
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man = monkey + mushroom
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pattern
multiplayer
Registered: 07/19/02
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: Murex]
#1141271 - 12/14/02 01:53 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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> Do dolphins have mamory glands?
I dunno I never really thought about it until now. 
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man = monkey + mushroom
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random
i am what i am
Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 1
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
#1141416 - 12/14/02 03:11 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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Nothing is a pattern inside randomness.
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pattern
multiplayer
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: random]
#1141429 - 12/14/02 03:18 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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> Nothing is a pattern inside randomness.
Yeah, but not everything is random inside a pattern!
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man = monkey + mushroom
Edited by pattern (12/14/02 03:18 PM)
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Murex
Reality Hacker
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Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: random]
#1141441 - 12/14/02 03:27 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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Chaos loops.
--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?
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Anonymous
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: Murex]
#1141528 - 12/14/02 04:35 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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So does Fruit but that is a topic for another thread.
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nubious
1up on the rest
Registered: 10/20/02
Posts: 534
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Re: my two cents [Re: pattern]
#1142221 - 12/15/02 03:49 AM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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playing computer games on low doses of shrooms (or LSD), often times results in a severe asskickin to your competitors.
Hahahahhaha... that one day we tripped in your apartment.. I walked in to DSB and whooped ass like I was a vet, and I didn't even play the game... good times... good times...
So when are we shrooming again? I think we're about due 
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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.
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pattern
multiplayer
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Posts: 2,185
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Re: my two cents [Re: nubious]
#1142283 - 12/15/02 04:24 AM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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>Hahahahhaha... that one day we tripped in your apartment.. I walked in to DSB
>and whooped ass like I was a vet, and I didn't even play the game... good
>times... good times...
there's nothing quite like playing multiplayer games on psychedelics! 
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man = monkey + mushroom
Edited by pattern (09/08/07 06:56 AM)
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pattern
multiplayer
Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
#7382710 - 09/08/07 07:06 AM (17 years, 12 days ago) |
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Additional Thought:
Do our closest descendants share the pineal gland with us? Do chimpanzees or any monkeys have DMT-producing mechanisms in their brains? If they do not, then this further lends to the theory, in a more literal sense. "Humans = Primates + Psychedelics" would be more than an evolutionary metaphor (although it would still be an oversimplified expression).
Please consider Digging this story to bring it to the attention of others:
http://www.digg.com/general_sciences/Humans_Primates_Psychedelics
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man = monkey + mushroom
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cloudtripper
Knock and theDoor will open
Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 175
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
#7382726 - 09/08/07 07:20 AM (17 years, 12 days ago) |
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So Psychedelics are like the monolith in 2001 a Space Odyssey and Adam and Eve's parents where hypie Apes !
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Always come back again. Never come back the same.
Edited by cloudtripper (09/08/07 08:01 AM)
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pattern
multiplayer
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: cloudtripper]
#7752855 - 12/13/07 08:32 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
cloudtripper said:
So Psychedelics are like the monolith in 2001 a Space Odyssey
You could probably throw some mushrooms in place of the monolith and the scene would make a lot of sense. 
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man = monkey + mushroom
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Boots
Disenchanted
Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 1,137
Loc: Northwood, Ohio, U.S.A.
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Interesting read. Definitely something to think about.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 40,215
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
#7757421 - 12/14/07 07:31 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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even lizards have pineal glands.
the psychedelic effect is not unique to humans, and the role of pineal is not clearly involved in the slower signal fadeout and cerebral layering of images/sounds/tactile/synaesthesia/etc...
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_  🧠_ 
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,694
Loc: On the Border
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
#7757457 - 12/14/07 08:15 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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This is idiotic bullshit.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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pattern
multiplayer
Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
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Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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man = monkey + mushroom
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: my two cents [Re: Swami]
#7842790 - 01/07/08 09:33 AM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
If I had to hunt or was being hunted, I would want to be stone cold sober. The negative side-effects of a mushroom intoxication (as relates to extreme physical exertion) far outweigh the increased night vision. This fact alone tends to destroy that whole myth.
As always, I would put money on this as it can be fairly easily tested.
It only takes a minuscule dose of shrooms to enhance vision. Not enough to get one high. Buy the way I think we should ban you.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: my two cents [Re: Icelander]
#7842885 - 01/07/08 10:04 AM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
It only takes a minuscule dose of shrooms to enhance vision.
If you are old and have Mr. Magoo-like vision...
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 40,215
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I apologize for re-reading
I wish I could realign the whole species of theorists who misuse the word "Evolution" by embracing the verb rather than the noun.
"To Evolve" - this verbal infinitive is essentially erroneous or at least misleading:
linguistically one assumes that one can conjugate it meaningfully, however, Evolution, or the fact of having evolved from anscestors is only applicable as an observation and understanding inferred from evidence related to mutation, environmantal change, and adaptation:
1. environmental change is continuous and slow or catastrophic and it is almost predictable except for some of the catastrophies.
2. mutation is continuous, never possible to predict and it never has any purpose whatsoever; purely accidental mutation is the only kind. Most mutations are ineffectual or lethal, very few produce something that changes a species into something at all more successful in it's niche.
3. adaptation to continuous change is also not predictable, but if a creature does survive a mutation, and if it can use its resulting form to compete better in the "changed" environment, then you could say (after it had passed on it's genes to its viable children, and usually died) that it had evolved. At best it is like the rich man who could not take it with him. --- Evolution is very much a historical analysis, and several generations tell a story of change with no conclusion or final state, just the momentary norm and variance in form.
this means that a viable mutated creature could never have any wish to evolve (infinitive - wrong usage), and would not knowingly or intentionally go through any process of evolving (present participle - wrong), but if it had been born wrong, survived, and had children who were viable, then after all was said and done they could be viewd as having evolved (past participle - good).
As for psychedelic interactions with intelligence, it does stretch the mind, and reach has always contributed something. (note the giraffe and enjoy your mushrooms)
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_ 🧠_
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pattern
multiplayer
Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:As for psychedelic interactions with intelligence, it does stretch the mind, and reach has always contributed something. (note the giraffe and enjoy your mushrooms)
Are you trying to imply, subtly, that this theory is Lamarckian? When one says "to evolve" they may often be using it as a verb in the incorrect sense, but I don't believe that is the case here.
When I say "to evolve" I mean exactly what you say in point three: "if a creature does survive a mutation, and if it can use its resulting form to compete better in the "changed" environment, then you could say (after it had passed on it's genes to its viable children, and usually died) that it had evolved."
Now let me defend this theory against any charges that it is Lamarckian in nature. Consider this abstract timeline:
1) Group of monkeys or proto-humans live with diet of mushrooms.
2) Offspring has better genetics to utilize mushrooms.
3) Repeat.
For me to say "humans evolved from monkey eating mushrooms" does not, in any way shape or form, imply that a mammal chomped down a mushroom and that changed its DNA right then and there. This may be confused with the writings of McKenna, where he proposed that mushrooms were affecting DNA. Who knows, maybe he is right, but that's not what I am trying to say here. It's a minor difference but I think it's worth expounding.
cheers
pattern
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man = monkey + mushroom
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 40,215
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Re: my two cents [Re: pattern]
#7846953 - 01/08/08 06:37 AM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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good points
an open mind makes sense, but mcKenna's idea of genetic change is plain dumb;
letting your consideration blend with his DNA theory is not good in any sense(, except for schmoozing while buying more dope from people who praise mckenna, and there are an abundance of short loop thinkers like that).
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_ 🧠_
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Jigsaw
Secret
Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 7
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
#13685455 - 12/26/10 01:57 AM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wow I love this discussion! Great theories and relevance, thanks for all the input Shroomery community!
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"The measure of a man depends not upon his work to the accomplishment of anther man's ends, but what he himself accomplishes to the benefit of society" -J.G.
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4896744
Small Town Girl
Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: Jigsaw]
#13686226 - 12/26/10 11:10 AM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Dolphins, chimps, and lots of other animals are self aware and have "intelligence". Also neanderthals had a culture which included things like make-up. There are also a few other very human like species that existed at the same time as humans for a while. This theory is most likely bullshit.
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Live your Life! 
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leery11
I Tell You What!
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: 4896744]
#13689136 - 12/27/10 12:32 AM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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darwin is a relative perspective
perspectives lead way to evidence, confirming theory
scientists use logic, reason, inquiry , as best they can, to know the truth, the problem is hypothesis always governs experiment and experiment without hypothesis leads to a random unified theory of something, and the basis of all this is YOU , the self, spinning knowledge in the hed
for example, one may investigate, diligently , the types of thing darwin did, and come to find we did not in any way "descend" ) you mean ascend ? ?? and/or/etc/what?) from monkeys,
? how is his information real ? he is gathering a process which is real enough but to explain anything about that process is where the trickiness of reality is . subjective . lee .
evolution as he sees it may not be what he is seeing into it , know what i mean ?
man wants the truth :
man devotes time to discovery :
psychedelic, meditation,
scriptures,
science
he uses some sort of instrument, all the while HE is the ONE using it , know what i mean ?
he finds things,
if he studies the Bible he confirms God to himself , or dis confirms, if he uses a microscope, if he uses a mushroom, see what i mean ? arbitrary and relative
no need to be religious about science, dogmatic science ?
the hindus had a ton of technology and supposedly flying machines, they sure did wrote about FLYING MACHINES, so , their inquiry was internal in meditation ?
relative ?
FOOD FOR THOUGHT .
--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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4896744
Small Town Girl
Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: leery11]
#13689756 - 12/27/10 07:31 AM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
leery11 said:
darwin is a relative perspective
perspectives lead way to evidence, confirming theory
scientists use logic, reason, inquiry , as best they can, to know the truth, the problem is hypothesis always governs experiment and experiment without hypothesis leads to a random unified theory of something, and the basis of all this is YOU , the self, spinning knowledge in the hed
for example, one may investigate, diligently , the types of thing darwin did, and come to find we did not in any way "descend" ) you mean ascend ? ?? and/or/etc/what?) from monkeys,
? how is his information real ? he is gathering a process which is real enough but to explain anything about that process is where the trickiness of reality is . subjective . lee .
evolution as he sees it may not be what he is seeing into it , know what i mean ?
man wants the truth :
man devotes time to discovery :
psychedelic, meditation,
scriptures,
science
he uses some sort of instrument, all the while HE is the ONE using it , know what i mean ?
he finds things,
if he studies the Bible he confirms God to himself , or dis confirms, if he uses a microscope, if he uses a mushroom, see what i mean ? arbitrary and relative
no need to be religious about science, dogmatic science ?
the hindus had a ton of technology and supposedly flying machines, they sure did wrote about FLYING MACHINES, so , their inquiry was internal in meditation ?
relative ?
FOOD FOR THOUGHT .
No, it is not all relative. You obviously are ignorant on the topic of evolution due to your comment on us descending from monkeys. Science gives us tangible things like the internet, medicine, etc. Things like the Bible give us nothing tangible. All they can do in best case scenarios is make you feel better.
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Live your Life!
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stanleyhaze
Stranger
Registered: 01/04/20
Posts: 6
Last seen: 2 years, 13 days
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 Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: 4896744]
#26416037 - 01/04/20 01:19 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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this is a really old post, but i came across it, searching for profound evidence, cows living naturally in their natural habitat being herded by more or less natural farmers providing milk that has traces of psilocybin in it and therefor makes the people consuming that milk (and butter, cheese, yogurt, kefir etc) from these smarter, more efficient, happier and and inventive to make it over the very cold and hard winters one gets exposed to in the, let's say, alps.
this is where i'm from and this is where you can find psilocybe semilanceata on almost any meadow you visit between end september and early december.
i've once read about tim leary's idea on this, but couldn't find any further information. so i've landed here and found this thread. had to register to post this, put everything happens for a reason (or no reason and just for the fun of it)
i personally highly respect pislocybin and especially psilocybin found in semilanceatas. i've had many various kinds of pislocybin mushrooms, but seMILANceata has my son's name in its name and has taught me many lessons, made me believe.
i don't know if it's so important to think, it's just us tripping. i'm sure, the cows get their dose of mushrooms and it connects these even more to the source. just like it connects us to the source. have you ever connected to the cows while searching and tripping with your friends (and maybe a dog NOT on a leash!)? they don't mind. these animals are huge and they don't mind. they must be high.
anyhow. the mushroom needs us (or any other live form capable of finding, identifying, eating, digesting and feeling) to experience itself. it's almost as it wants to tell you about itself. i've had many questions and could direct answer. go in with a question. it's nice to experience and enjoy all the colors and patterns and action. but the real thing might be to ask questions and see how it works. just like real life. the kids are stoked to see new stuff and forms and colors and find out. but we have to develop methods to work with this stuff and i am sure, we can sort things out in that other dimension to live in peace and harmony in this reality. that's what shamans and leaders have been doing for ages.
these mushrooms are hightech swag. maybe they want us to build a space ship to get back to their anestors' planet and us away before it's too late. who knows.
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sudly
Quasar Praiser
Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 12,280
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: stanleyhaze]
#26416413 - 01/04/20 05:45 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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This relationship to cows is represented throughout Aztec culture, artwork and religion. Not so much the space ships. Yet, with Space Force on the horizon.
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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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