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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
    #769243 -

Just so you know.....Ape is not a genus or species....it is a very generic term applied to all primates except humans.


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.

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Re: hhmmm... [Re: pattern]
    #769464 -

It is very possible, there is a tribe in the amazon, that takes the secreations of a toad, and get into a trance, they say it helps them hunt at night, and that they hunt with there spirit.
I have seen this in the discovery channel.
I am sure using shrooms, lets say level 2 trip will do the same thing.


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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: chemkid]
    #769467 -

sorry braa, but ape is a species man. peace braa!

Apes are classified in the Linnean System as follows:
Kingdom Animalia (all animals)
Phylum Chordata
Subphylum Vertebrata (animals with backbones)
Class Mammalia (warm-blooded animals with fur and mammary glands)
Order Primates (which is comprised of 11 families, including lemurs, monkeys, marmosets, lesser apes, great apes, and humans)
Family Pongidae (the great apes, including gorillas, chimpanzees, bonobos, and orangutans)
Genus Pongo (orangutans)
Species pygmaeus
Subspecies (perhaps a subspecies) P. p. pygmaeus (with a round face and dark red hair; found in Borneo)
Subspecies (perhaps a subspecies) P. p. abelii (with a narrow face and paler hair; found in Sumatra)


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Peace and Love to all!

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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #769549 -

Difference between humans and apes(or monkeys or whatever): awareness of self.

Difference between humans and drug-using humans: awareness of awareness of self

Difference between drug-using humans and enlightened humans: awareness of the absence of self.

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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
    #770268 -

yeah, mckenna wrote something like that too... sounds like a fun theory, but damn far fetched. the theory of evolution is crap... really, it's SCIENTIFICALLY impossible.... so i can't really subscribe to these kinds of ape+mushroom=man theories... read a little about evolution... it's not a creation vs. evolution, religion vs. science issue... i'm not the least bit christian... but really, evolution is one of the most thoroughly dispersed and widely believed myths ever invented. just do the math... evolution as described by science would have about the same chance of producing life as we now see it as a tornado sweeping through a juckyard and assembling a car. yeah, just my evolution rant.

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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: Salvia]
    #770457 -

That's pretty good...


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Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein

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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: ]
    #771265 -

well, no dude, evolution is totally possible (read gerald schroeder's "the science of God" it will blow your mind. or his other: evolution and the big bang.) but as everything else in the universe. it needs something to start it. that's why i prescribe to things such as God(s) controlled or started evolution.

i really really really like this theory by david kerr. but i might have more of a base for it. i suggest everyone at least make a brief visit to the psycedelic library at http://www.psychedelic-library.org/
and read some of the fan fucking tastic things there. awesome stuff, great tests and cool theories...ah cho! look at me, i'm turning into a commercial. hey, that's where i got my signature too.


kaya love is a higha love


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Peace and Love to all!

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mushmaster [Re: ]
    #771863 -

I think you might be confusing scientific impossibility with mathmatical improbability. Just because something is unlikely to happen doesn't mean that it is unable to happen. Take your tornado for instance: the possibility of that actually happening may be so infindescimally miniscule that it's not even worth looking into, but that doesn't mean that the possibility isn't there. Even if that possibility is only one in infinity, sooner or later you'd get your results. The same goes for evolution - just because it doesn't seem practical enough to be correct you can't assume that it isn't.


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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot

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Re: mushmaster [Re: Mystical_Craven]
    #772386 -

also remember this:
scientist's. they thought they knew it all, but then they made the hubble. now they know they don't know shit.
at one point the world was thought to be the center of the universe. it was also thought to be flat. but do we believe those things? never pass something off as impossible. be it evolution, the existence or lack thereof of God, or the fact that old junker in your yard may run again...nothing is impossible in an infinate universe my braa.

i'm a rebel, soul rebel. i'm a ganja'er, soul adventurer. see the morning sun, on the hillside, not living good? travel awhile... say i'm not leavin mon, i got work to do, if you're not happy children, then you must be blue. bob marley


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Peace and Love to all!

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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
    #772691 -

first i would like to say that i like your theory it is insightfull and opens my mind to new possobilities i have a few things to say aobut it thou one you seem to base the way that the pre-evolved human was thinking with the way that we think today we live in a world where we have time to think aobut what we want to eat in the world of evolution the chance to eat comes sudenly and has to be pounced upon when it comes, has the Psychedelic mushroom even been around that long or is it a new form of mushroom one that has evolved recently, is it possible for spores to make it through the digestive track of a primate to spawn at the other end( that would be a good renewable source for the primates mushroom hunger) and what do oyu think the effects of mushrooms could be on a smaller brain size would they huallicinate or would they just have a better grasp on the world around them, i can see how small doese could help primates hunt thou if they where to see mild trails they would have a better way of knowing what was moving around in the dark or even auras if you believe in such things i had a qeustion about how they would know whether or not that a certain type of mushroom would give the proper effects but even chimps know what goodies they can get out of an anthill
thats all from me for now i apologize for the murder of the language

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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: 36963]
    #774030 -

"The science is more complicated underneath the generalized formula. The psychoactive mushroom (Amanitas, p. cubensis) contains psilocybin, which the body PURPOSELY converts into psilocin to be used by the synapses in the frontal cortex. A few hours later the body releases anti-tryptamines in order to remove the psilocin from the blood. In this state psilocin has been termed ?psychedelic?, which means ?mind-enlarging?. Yet the word has been misused to give the impression that the mushroom produces psychedelic experiences. It does not. The mushroom simply contains a molecule, which doesn?t do anything interesting per say. It is only psychedelic when the brain uses it. Psilocin is not the only chemical contributing to human evolution, there are others, but the mushroom is distinct."

Purposely converts into psilocin? u sure it purposely does that?

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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: 36963]
    #774113 -

Thanks for the corrections all! There was alot of argument about the use of the word "ape". Well, I admit to being ignorant of the literal definition, so I'll use the word "primate", even though it sounds funny Damn dictionaries!

I'm not sure what mushrooms do to an ape brain, but I imagine at large doses it would cause hallucinations: probably ones that make no sense to the ape, so a lower dosage would be required. The effects on thought would be the key: allowing the brain to form longer chains of thought, as well as new chains of thought.

These thoughts could then be used to advantage in whatever environment the ape is in... provided it has already lived in that environment for a long time and has become intimate with it. Doing new things for the first time while on psychedelics is to be avoided. The real benefit is in using psychedelics to do familiar things in new ways!

Pupil dilation would give advantage in nocturnal hunting... yet I dont think that hunting alone could give rise to higher intelligence. Hunting gets the apes more food Which is a good thing, but a secondary thing, if you take my meaning.

Lastly, mushrooms and entheogenic plants have been around longer than us, and we are not the only species that eats them. Various species of mammals eat them: deer, bears, cows, etc. Perhaps dinosaurs couldn't evolve sentience because they didn't eat the right vegetables?


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man = monkey + mushroom

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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: AcursedRedDragon]
    #774142 -

"Purposely converts into psilocin? u sure it purposely does that?"

I'm not sure of any of this, it is a theory with no evidence

I said that, because we could have evolved any number of methods to remove psilocybin completely, or not convert it. Instead, humans convert psilocybin to psilocin. So, evolutionarily speaking, humans purposely convert psilocybin. Just like our bodies purposely digest specific molecules out of food and shit the rest out! Its an adaptation that we've kept because it benefits us.


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man = monkey + mushroom

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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
    #774293 -

and there's no doubt the same drugs that effect us affect animals. dog's get high (canine) cat's get high (feline) apes (and i use it in the sense of the word i desribed earlier) especially chimps have been known to smoke cig's and even become addicted much like us. also, the structure of the ape body is more similar to ours than any other species on the planet.
and if the prehistoric man were to eat the shrooms and shit them out, they wouldn't pass through the system, but the spores would probably find the shit jsut like they do in cow fields.


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Peace and Love to all!

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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
    #775840 -

i havent read all the posts yet so im not sure if anyone recommended this book yet so ill say it anyways =p
i recommend anyone interested in this read Food of the Gods. they cover this subject pluss much much more =)
good book


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I had not expected fear, but terror came with her
and tho I sought a dying moment, she showed me a dying eternity
and tho I sought to bring wisdom into the real, she tore the real from me
and I was no more, and in unbeing, I lost my fear

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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: Salvia]
    #1141122 -

Difference between humans and apes(or monkeys or whatever): awareness of self.

I don't know about all of the non human primates but, chimpanzees are definately aware of themselves. There have been studies. If you put a dab of paint on a chimps forhead and then show it a mirror, it tries to wipe the paint off it's forhead. It recognizes the image in the mirror as itself.


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself

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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: 3eyedgod]
    #1141126 -

I didn't realize how old this thread was. OOPS! my bad. Didn't mean to bump it over that


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself

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Re: my two cents [Re: Swami]
    #1141172 -

Actually, Low doses can increase the senses, allowing for better cordination, vision, etc. I saw a TV show where this scientest guy gave one Judo fighter a low dose of shrooms and another (the opponent) a placebo. The result was that the guy who was on the shrooms was drastically able to subdue the oponent more often. Note that they were sparing before the mushrooms were introuduced as well and were considered equal fighters.

That program also showed a historical thing in africa, where an african tribe won a battle against the Brittish when they were outnumbered (and using spears, not guns). They also knew that the shamans gave the fighters mushrooms before the battle.

:tongue:


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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: 3eyedgod]
    #1141241 -

> chimpanzees are definately aware of themselves

Dolphins are aware of themselves in front of a mirror as well.

Also, I think my dog is too! :smile: lol

:grin: 


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man = monkey + mushroom

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Re: A Theory of Psychedelics [Re: pattern]
    #1141245 -

Do dolphins have mamory glands?  :confused:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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