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Humans evolved with mushrooms
    #2164104 -

I had a discussion with a friend the other day. He was saying that he belives that early man evolved from neanderthals with the help of mushrooms. He stated that our brains tripled in size in a relatively short amount of time 100,000 years. Living in the grass lands of Africa with all sorts of grazzing animals, all that wonderful poop around. No wonder that the masi became such good friends with their cows. They probably started out eating the mushrooms that grew from there dung. Tripped out started having new thoughts and ways of thinking. Started to learn a lot. Became spiritual, knowledgable, and grew with there animals. Now they use the dung for fire the milk/blood for food and hides for shelter. Its a pretty interesting Idea.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: ]
    #2164119 -

To me it's, Spirituality was evolved into humans by ingestions of dmt containing chemicals like mushrooms. I think a possibility of the neanderthals is that the other neanderthal like human ended up on an aggressive path and killed all the neanderthals. I bet the neanderthals had plenty of great wisdom and ideology to share.


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Evolution of Time.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Droz]
    #2164151 -

eh...i think the evolution of man is more complex than eating some mushrooms, though, i'm sure that altering conciousness had some part in it...and it continues to be a part in our evolution to this day.


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Viaggio]
    #2164164 -

I dont know the facts or any thing but how could our brain tripple its size in a 100,00 years? It just seems right to me that they expaned there contiousness and thinking with the help of the little gifts

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: ]
    #2164175 -

You should read Food of the Gods by Mckenna.


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As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Viaggio]
    #2164207 -

i'm sure ...
Do you have an advanced degree in any discipline? I would be interested in seeing your doctorate thesis.

that altering conciousness had some part in it...and it continues to be a part in our evolution to this day.
Altering your consciousness does not affect your genetics any more than you lifting weights will make your offspring more muscular.




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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2164474 -

:lol: perhaps i should rephrase with the word could?  evolution doesn't have to occur in the traditional sense of genetic changes...but if it makes you feel better, i'll replace the word evolution with developement. 


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: ]
    #2164511 -

Modern humans did not evolve from neanderthals. Neanderthals were a different species who's lineage ended 30,000 years ago in europe.
I'm pretty sure Homo sapiens evolved from other hominids in africa and asia. Interestingly enough, neanderthals had very large brains (larger than moder humans) yet did not engage in art or other symbology. While hominids of the warmer climate did have varied and complex art and symbology. Perhaps sparked by the presence of psychoactive mushrooms?


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: bert]
    #2164537 -

DOes anybody believe in Adam and Eve anymore?

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: orizon]
    #2165526 -

I've known a few Adams in my day but I've never met anyone named Eve

i'm not too sure what if any direct role mushrooms had in human evolution, but I do know that practically all cultures around the world have some kind of mind-altering aspect, many involving mushrooms. people knew what mushrooms could do a looonng long long time ago.. cultural heritage thrown by the wayside that we should really pick back up.


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i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #2165670 -

Doesent nesseseraly have to be mushrooms. There is plenty of psychoactive plants, roots and fungi that could have had a role in the brains evolution.


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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Spokesman]
    #2165685 -

Nothing that you eat is known to have ANY positive affect whatsoever on your offspring


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2165797 -

Quote:
Nothing that you eat is known to have ANY positive affect whatsoever on your offspring


But that's not the point, it's about a different way of thinking, and learning from others.?


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Wheels of cheese wheeels of cheeeeese!!!

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Merkin]
    #2165905 -

Quote:
But that's not the point, it's about a different way of thinking, and learning from others.?


That makes sense. If the monkeys were indeed eating mushrooms and formed new ideas from such, and then they integrated these ideas into their life, then these ideas would be passed onto others and would be passed along, monkey to monkey, generation to generation.. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2166101 -

I do not deny that possibility, but teaching the next generation or handing down knowledge is NOT evolution.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2166111 -

Quote:
I do not deny that possibility, but teaching the next generation or handing down knowledge is NOT evolution.



if teaching the next generation causes the species to CHANGE OVER TIME, I cannot fathom how this would not be considered evolution, unless you are talking about evolution in a strictly physical sense. If that is the case, you are not seeing the big picture.


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2166121 -

Quote:
I do not deny that possibility, but teaching the next generation or handing down knowledge is NOT evolution.


Perhaps not. I really don't know. :grin:

But what I do wonder is this: how do instincts automatically get into animal's minds? This is what makes me think. So many generations of animals doing the same thing? I mean, hell, I should start a bass guitar family or something. hehehe
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2166129 -

If that is the case, you are not seeing the big picture.

I see the big picture and it is called "cultural development" as opposed to evolution. Kill off the parents and remove the records and all advances are lost. In evolution, no advances would be lost because the talents and abilities are innate.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2166290 -

The word evolution doesn't necessarily imply genetics. It's often used in that context, but that's not a positive evolution.
Take away the modifications in genes generation after generation and the advancements are lost too. Genes are every bit as much material as books or institutions for educationary purposes.
We're born in a world with books just as much as we're born with our genes.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

Edited by Alan Stone (12/07/03 11:12 AM)

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2166430 -

Quote:
i'm sure ...
Do you have an advanced degree in any discipline? I would be interested in seeing your doctorate thesis.

that altering conciousness had some part in it...and it continues to be a part in our evolution to this day.
Altering your consciousness does not affect your genetics any more than you lifting weights will make your offspring more muscular.





Wrong.. Recent study's have concluded that your human genome itself is nothing more then a sensory organ that adapt's to what it sence's is your environment.. Your environmnt is percieved through your mind so therefore you change your perception of reality you change your DNA..
http://www.hofmann.org/papers/Human%20Genome%20-Cosmic%20Joke.html
It doesn't get into it till the middle but it's worth the read..

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Bhairabas]
    #2166456 -

Definitely worth the read! Very interesting.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2166463 -

Quote:
Altering your consciousness does not affect your genetics any more than you lifting weights will make your offspring more muscular.


True, but if you are in a culture of weight lifters, then the offspring with randomly better "weight lifting" genetics will be more successful.  That's natural selection.  Environmental pressures direct the course of evolution.  There doesn't have to be an affect on DNA.  Remember Darwin?  He knew nothing of DNA or genetics when he wrote The Origin of Species.

Same as with mushrooms.  If our ancestal primates lived in an area inhabited by psychedelic mushrooms, and ate them, that could create an environment where "higher" consiousness and creativity were selected to evolve.

:sun:


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man = monkey + mushroom

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: pattern]
    #2166480 -

I read somewhere that cocaine and ecstacy damage your genetics...in otd I think


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: pattern]
    #2166491 -

True, but if...

If, if, if...

Sorry, the vast majority of women do not choose mates based on psychedelic usage, but on ability to protect and provide.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Positronius]
    #2166494 -

If its in OTD it must be true! :kiss:


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man = monkey + mushroom

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2166510 -

Quote:
Sorry, the vast majority of women do not choose mates based on psychedelic usage, but on ability to protect and provide.


Being smarter gives a better ability to protect and provide.

:rolleyes:


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man = monkey + mushroom

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: pattern]
    #2166522 -

Only two false assumptions in one short statement. Not too bad.

1. Women (in general) will choose a jock over a mathematician ANY DAY of the week.

2. There is ZERO evidence that psychedelics make one smarter as evidenced by the egregious grammar, spelling, and inability to clearly express thoughts that permeate this board.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2166527 -

-Women (in general) will choose a jock over a mathematician ANY DAY of the week

mmmmmm, I dont know about that. If we are going to level women to being single-minded creatures, they will go for money before anything else.


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Positronius]
    #2166537 -

I don't like where this conversation is going at all. :smirk:

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Positronius]
    #2166541 -

mmmmmm, I dont know about that.

Your ignorance tells us nothing about how mate selection works.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2166549 -

its not ignorance its a reality, being a "jock" is meaningless in advanced capitalism...duhhh.

you sound a tad bitter though.....


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2166556 -

You still haven't commented that your comment about perception having nothing to do with your DNA has been proved wrong by some very smart cookie's.. What do you have say about that?? Or do you just want to ignore it??
http://www.hofmann.org/papers/Human%20Genome%20-Cosmic%20Joke.html
Actualy read it this time..

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2166573 -

Quote:
Only two false assumptions in one short statement. Not too bad.


Wow. Only one under-handed insult in this post.

Quote:
1. Women (in general) will choose a jock over a mathematician ANY DAY of the week.


That is surprising, I didn't know there were jocks and mathematicians back then.

Quote:
2. There is ZERO evidence that psychedelics make one smarter as evidenced by the egregious grammar, spelling, and inability to clearly express thoughts that permeate this board.


For instance, saying "There is ZERO evidence" is a grammatical error.  Maybe you are right Swami, you've proved your own point for us.

:lol:


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man = monkey + mushroom

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: pattern]
    #2166591 -

Wow. Only one under-handed insult in this post.
Calling an assumption false is not an insult any more than saying 2 + 2 = 5 is false.

That is surprising, I didn't know there were jocks and mathematicians back then.
Back when? Evolution is supposed to be on-going, not something that stopped long ago.

For instance, saying "There is ZERO evidence" is a grammatical error.
Wrong again. (Not an insult, but a fact.) Zero can be used as a noun or an adjective. Learning is fun, try it.

Webster

zero:

adj.
Of, relating to, or being zero.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2166639 -

:lol:


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: adrug]
    #2166648 -

I don't like where this conversation is going at all.

Where is it going that you don't like? Does your not liking something change the "way things are"?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2166664 -

please enlighten us as to how "the way things are"

firstly,
women dont care about physique like they did in the past, physical ability is secondary to mental capacity or the ability to make chedder, that is obvious to anyone with half a fucking brain.

secondly,
women, like men, have the ability to transcend reproductive instinct in the sense that they regularily choose partners that arent the prime genetic candidates, nor are they good at making money.


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Positronius]
    #2166760 -

that is obvious to anyone with half a fucking brain.

I am concerned with whole-brained people, not accident victims or genetic mutants.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: orizon]
    #2166784 -

Quote:
DOes anybody believe in Adam and Eve anymore? 


Nope :smile:


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2166798 -

Sorry, not in the mood to argue today. :wink:

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: adrug]
    #2166800 -

way to dodge all my attacks swami, i dub you hypocrite of the day, congrats.


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Positronius]
    #2166815 -

He proably read the article I posted and watched his little world come crashing down underneath him..
Where you living now Positronius??

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2166817 -

Quote:
Back when? Evolution is supposed to be on-going, not something that stopped long ago.


This thread is about early human evolution.

Quote:
For instance, saying "There is ZERO evidence" is a grammatical error.
Wrong again. (Not an insult, but a fact.) Zero can be used as a noun or an adjective. Learning is fun, try it.


Wrong.  The correct answer is: "There is no evidence".  I wonder what an English professor would think!  :smirk:


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man = monkey + mushroom

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Bhairabas]
    #2166819 -

in the middle of pacific, on an island i created out of scrap lumber and oil drums. I have a wireless sattelite connection. I eat sharks.


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Positronius]
    #2166828 -

I see.. Sounds like fun.. Does anyone else live with you or are your only friends there the sharks you eat..

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: pattern]
    #2166878 -

Wrong. The correct answer is: "There is no evidence". I wonder what an English professor would think!

Webster: zero adj.
2. Having no measurable or otherwise determinable value.
Informal. Absent, inoperative, or irrelevant in specified circumstances: ?The town has... practically no opportunities for amusement, zero culture? (Robert M. Adams).

Guess it is too hard to use an on-line dictionary. I back up ALL my statements. I will wager $1000 that my usage is acceptable.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2166973 -

Quote:
Swami said:
Only two false assumptions in one short statement. Not too bad.

1. Women (in general) will choose a jock over a mathematician ANY DAY of the week.

2. There is ZERO evidence that psychedelics make one smarter as evidenced by the egregious grammar, spelling, and inability to clearly express thoughts that permeate this board.



In general, I will choose intelligence over a jock or a mathematician any day of the week. But I also agree with what someone else said, that money usually motivates women more, in general, in selecting a mate, than jock status.

I think most people on message boards have bad grammar, spelling and ability to clearly express thoughts. I think it's a product of our educational system rather than psychedelics, however. Otherwise, man, there are a lot of people on drugs.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2167028 -

Quote:
Swami said:
Nothing that you eat is known to have ANY positive affect whatsoever on your offspring


Then how come carnivores tend to be more intelligent than herbivores?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: silversoul7]
    #2167230 -

Swami is right, your diet is obviously not going to physically affect the next generation of offspring. But information can be passed down through the generations. There is such thing as evolution of knowledge but its just using the word evolution loosely to describe what is going on. Carnivores tend to be more intelligent than herbivores because their diet promotes survival of those who are more intelligent and better adapted to hunting prey. Herbivores survive on a diet that doesn't require them to be intelligent to acquire their food, that's why most of the time, those that evolve hunting advantages won't neccessarily be naturally selected for. I think a lot of people still believe in the giraffe who slowly elongates its neck during its life to reach the leaves that are higher up on the tree....

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: bert]
    #2167489 -

I think some people are forgetting WHY these mushrooms have hallucinogenic properties.

Magic Mushrooms have psylocybin them for the same reason Roses have thorns. It's the defense that, through evolution or otherwise, gained for it's own defense against predators. This is why some plants are poisonous, some have thorns, and of course, some have hallucinogenic properties, like DMT. Most animals in wild nature would remember eating that shroom from the distinct smell of it or whatever else, and remember "oh, shit, last time I ate that, I totally freaked out and felt sick and went psycho and it was indeed not pleasant." And they wouldn't dare touch it again.
I'm pretty sure that at least, MOST pre-civilized humans "back in the day", if they ate such a fungus, they would most likely went completely confused and sick and scared for their lives and regret ever even touching the damn thing, and of course, didnt thereafter.
Some of you people are projecting your own favoritism of eating magical mushrooms onto what you think you ancient ancestors thought of them too. Lets not forget how entirely different the vast majority of people "back in the day" thought. It's even been rumored that much of the Salem witch trials and such were in fact, fueled by a hallucinogenic mold/fungus growing on their rye bread, which made them think that certain women around them were actually doing "witchcraft", and needless to say, their beliefs were, naturally, at least somewhat mysoginistic, so of course their beliefs in conjuction with the mental distortions and hallucinations naturally targeted women as performing witchcraft, and massacred a sickening number of them. And this was only a few hundred years ago. Think about that. And these were HUMAN BEINGS, the most intelligent form of life on this planet, not mere animals who don't even know any better.
Most, if not all people back in those ancient times weren't as educated as we are today, and would've deemed even a headache as something that only can be cured by drilling holes in the head to release evil spirits and demons from within the head. And so on. So I'm fairly certain that hallucinogenic mushrooms were indeed NOT a crucial role in the evolution of ANY animals, including human beings.


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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2167608 -

Do we eat mushrooms for there unpleasent effects?
As for all primitive people learning about there enviroments was crucial to ther survival. These early people when testing a new plant out to see if it was edible would not cook up a big meal for the family and hope for the best. They would feed an unknown plant or mushroom to there least favorite kid or maybe there mates mother. I dont know about the rest of you but give me your largest fresh mushroom and I will have a most pleasent time not at all frightning. And if I was an early man and I ate this thing and saw things, yes I would be scared, but curiosity killed the cat. I am sure my tales of this crazy adventure would rise lots of curiosity in my clan.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: ]
    #2167627 -

AFungitobewith said:
Do we eat mushrooms for there unpleasent effects?

No, of course not, I didnt say we did, but what i'm saying is what WE know, is far more different from what the people back in ancient history knew. So of course we can eat them comfortably without much, if any, irrational fears or uneducated fears.
I dont doubt the possibility that there indeed WERE some people who found it oddly curious.
But to say an entire species of animals evolved from that, isnt a very well-thought out thesis.

But on a personal individual level....you could definitely work with that.


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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2167738 -

Every group of people interested in weird theories and esoteric knowledge have their own ridiculous way to explain why our brain got so big and nobody can prove anything. If mushrooms made us way smarter or made our children way smarter, then why doesn't that happen anymore? Why hasn't our brain continuously grown at that pace? Why aren't mushroom-using cultures a different species?

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2167777 -

Again, this entire issue is covered in Mckenna's book Food of the Gods. Mckenna argued that mushroom consumption allowed early man to be more successful in natural selection as well as effected his culture positively. Whether or not this is accurate or not is up to debate and research, of course - but I do suggest people check it out.



here


--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Xochitl]
    #2167822 -

Right, he argued that the mushroom provided people with superior hunting skills due to superior eyesight and energy boosts, so the mushroom cultures became the dominant ones, but that doesn't really cover why people would physically change and gain bigger brains through mushroom use.

Because the drug supplements their condition the mushroom users would actually be physically inferior because their bodies wouldn't be under the same pressure to evolve as those who didn't use mushrooms. I can't say Terence's theory of human evolution is that "tight" having read all his books and listened to him talk a lot, and knowing how he went about his theorizing I doubt he would defend his ideas as strongly as some people on this board sometimes do.

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Swami]
    #2167893 -

Quote:
There is ZERO evidence


Quote:
I will wager $1000 that my usage is acceptable.


I'll take the bet.  $1000 comin my way!!  :loveeyes:


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man = monkey + mushroom

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Re: Humans evolved with mushrooms [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2167907 -

Quote:
Mixomatosis said:
Every group of people interested in weird theories and esoteric knowledge have their own ridiculous way to explain why our brain got so big and nobody can prove anything.



What do you think is the best theory so far?

Quote:
If mushrooms made us way smarter or made our children way smarter, then why doesn't that happen anymore?



I think that about 20,000 years ago human evolution reached a peak.  Maybe even 100,000... who knows for sure... I dont, I wasnt around then.  Mushrooms won't play a significant role in further human evolution.  We've already evolved brains that "use" them and that's all. 

Quote:
Why hasn't our brain continuously grown at that pace?



It requires alot of energy, a big skull, and all the muscle to hold up that head, to develop big brains.  There is give and take.  A species can't keep evolving bigger brains without the necessary resources.

Quote:
Why aren't mushroom-using cultures a different species?



They are... humans.  The other species are the lower order primates.  :wink:

my two cents

:sun:


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man = monkey + mushroom

Edited by pattern (12/08/03 01:38 AM)

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