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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: the next step in human evolution [Re: buckwheat]
    #1659010 - 06/24/03 06:31 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I think that psychedelics are a valuable tool for exploring consciousness and maybe they could play a role in evolution, who knows.

We still aren't sure which mechanism is involved in our evolution. Is it random mutations that prove more suitable to the environment? Or do we have some sort of control that causes mutations to fit the environment..

Everything you said is pure speculation, but I do think that it will be our minds that we may be able to see evovle next.

We are now in the midst of the information age. Children have access to more information now than ever before. It seems that we as multitasking adults have more to remember and contemplate now have a need for even more increased brain capacity.

I think that this information explosion will prove instrumental in the next phase of evolution. It may even allow us to decipher what causes evolution because this (Information age) is a dramtic new development in our species history.

If our ability to genetically enigeer our DNA develops to the point where we can make ourselves smarter, faster, longer-lived, etc., does that still count as evolution?


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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Anonymous

Re: the next step in human evolution [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1659025 - 06/24/03 06:36 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

we can not evolve any further, scientifically speaking, we are stuck.

we can further our conscious into different realms and use our brain in different areas, but if you think that an altered human race will pop-up, you are wrong.


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
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Re: the next step in human evolution [Re: ]
    #1659053 - 06/24/03 06:44 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

we can not evolve any further, scientifically speaking, we are stuck.

i think that statement is the biggest load of crap i've ever seen! 

lol, j/k! :laugh:

really, though, i don't agree with it! 

scientifically speaking??  says who? 

we are animals.  we are part of nature.  we are affected by our environment.  how would it be possible for us to not evolve any further?  that idea is just plain silly.  :tongue:

 


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Namaste.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: the next step in human evolution [Re: ]
    #1659059 - 06/24/03 06:45 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

That's ludicrous, scientifically speaking.

What evidence do you have to support your position?


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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Anonymous

Re: the next step in human evolution [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1659231 - 06/24/03 07:38 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

in order for an organism in a species to survive, they need to pass on their genes to the next generation. the organism that does the best job at passing on their genes, (ie. the ones that are better evolved) has their genes re-introduced back into the environment. when a species is unable to pass them on, it dies out, and so does its genes. during the course of evolution, the better fit animals, with the best genes have survived and the others have died off.

we are at a point in our human existence where no one dies off. we all live, and we all reproduce. everyones genes are intermingling and there is NO loss of genes because someone can't survive.

this is not a theory, its scientific fact. pick up a biology book and see for yourself.


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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: the next step in human evolution [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1659368 - 06/24/03 08:35 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

we are animals. we are part of nature. we are affected by our environment. how would it be possible for us to not evolve any further? that idea is just plain silly




exactly and a split within the same species did happen in one of the early humans. when one of the monkey tribes discovered fire and used a stick to put in the sharpened rock. that made them smarter within the same species. so maybe psychedelic users aren't any more evolved than other humans but we might be better prepared for what ever happens.since non psychedelic users have trouble grasping the idea of other dimensions and that they are living in a code simulation. they're idea of exploring the unknown is sending a hunk of metal to space. they have no idea about interdemensional travel .those of us that have done dmt might have information that NASA wont have.unless they are actually exerimenting drugs. of coarse this quantum psychology is all in our head but how else can we have solid evidence of nothing solid. i think thats why Einstein could not see this.haha imagine eienstein on drugs. thousands of people realizing the same thing all over the world and at different times is too much of a coincidence.

so according to McKenna's time wave zero psychedelic users especially dmt users will be better prepared for the next global change


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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: the next step in human evolution [Re: ]
    #1659389 - 06/24/03 08:42 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LoOnEr said:
in order for an organism in a species to survive, they need to pass on their genes to the next generation. the organism that does the best job at passing on their genes, (ie. the ones that are better evolved) has their genes re-introduced back into the environment. when a species is unable to pass them on, it dies out, and so does its genes. during the course of evolution, the better fit animals, with the best genes have survived and the others have died off.

we are at a point in our human existence where no one dies off. we all live, and we all reproduce. everyones genes are intermingling and there is NO loss of genes because someone can't survive.

this is not a theory, its scientific fact. pick up a biology book and see for yourself.




i agree but this does not mean anything if the next evolution is in the mind. i think that from here to 2012 and after there will be massive global death. and we will again have something else to adapt to


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Offlineshr00m
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Re: the next step in human evolution [Re: buckwheat]
    #1659412 - 06/24/03 08:52 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

yo its 3030 I want ya'll to meet deltron zero...the automator.....


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the only constant is change~ life goes on. so theres no point in staying back because you can always catch up. try,hope, and understand!


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

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Re: the next step in human evolution [Re: ]
    #1659435 - 06/24/03 08:58 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

you're forgetting one thing in your argument - selection.

random breeding, 100% survival rate:
--------->:devil:<---------

selective breeding, 100% survival rate:
<---------:sun:--------->

humanity is evolving and devolving at the same time.

 


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Anonymous

Re: the next step in human evolution [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1660752 - 06/25/03 07:19 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

humans are not selective breeding in the sense that would bring evolutionary change. we mate with people based on social status, attitude, compatibility, and so on... there is no clear trait that is perpetuating due to selective breeding, so i'd argue that we are in fact, random breeding.

but good point :smile:



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OfflineDogomush
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Re: the next step in human evolution [Re: ]
    #1661642 - 06/25/03 04:32 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Looner's on to it for sure..

Look at how many people have bad backs.. bad feet.. everybody. Why is that? Because our species' shitty bodies are good enough to get us to breeding age, and that's all we need. We can't evolve if there isn't pressure on people stopping them from breeding, but as things are, everybody breeds.

We would need a mega-huge global apocalypse to change, and it would have to have something to do with the mind if we were to survive. We would need predators and the only way to defend against them would be with sophisticated brains.

Maybe we will all plug into machines and fight against alien invaders using our minds to control hundreds of robots simultaneously. If you are stupid, then your base would be overrun and you'd all die, but if you were smart, then you could defend your base.

I'm not so sure psychedelics are going to help us evolve. I see no reason for that to happen other than Terrence talked about it with no reasons to back him up.

Don't you all remember the thread I started discrediting Terence Mckenna's 2012 date? The official stance of this forum is that his timewave zero graph is bullshit. The main reason for this is that the date Dec 21 2012 was chosen by him as the end date. The end date didn't appear out of mathematics or anything he picked it. Why'd he pick it? Because there is a resonance point on the graph and he linked the two points up. One point was 1988 and the 4 years around it and the other was the hundreds of years around the fall of the roman empire. But why does he think that modern times are similiar to the collapse of the roman empire? Becuase we're about to collapse too. Why? Because 2012 is coming! According to Mckenna, 2012 is the enddate because if he chooses 2012 as the end of the world, then the resonance lined up. But wait.... It's a fuckin loop!


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: the next step in human evolution [Re: ]
    #1662676 - 06/25/03 10:05 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Looner, I do understand your point, however this only accounts for directional selection.

There are 4 types of natural selection.

Directional selection favors changes in traits that help a species adapt to its environment.

Stabilizing selection occurs if a species is already well adapted to its environment. In such cases, the individuals with average characteristics leave the most offspring, and individuals that differ most from the average leave fewest. One example of stabilizing selection is the survival rate of human babies according to birth weight. Babies of average weight tend to survive better than those who are either heavier or lighter. Unlike directional selection, stabilizing selection eliminates extreme traits.

Diversifying selection occurs when natural selection maintains two or more alternative traits in the population. The gene that causes sickle cell anemia, a blood disease, provides an example of balancing selection. An individual who inherits the sickle cell gene from both parents may develop fatal anemia. But people who inherit the gene from only one parent do not get anemia and become more resistant to malaria, a common tropical disease. Thus, in areas threatened by malaria, the beneficial effects provided by a single copy of the sickle cell gene balance the harmful effects of inheriting two copies of the gene. Because of this balance, natural selection maintains the sickle cell gene in the population, along with the traits of both anemia and malaria resistance.

Sexual selection occurs primarily among animals. Adults of many species prefer mates who display certain behaviors or have certain external features. I, for one, prefer hot chicks.

So, natural selection is still occuring. Therefore evolution. The other thing you haven't taken into account is the relativly new, and global phenomona, the information age.

Depending on which theory you subscribe to, (ie. random mutations, or that mutations arise to fit the situation) this could be the catalyst in the next (large) phase of our evolution. The access to information, and increasing demands put on our brain most certainly would either cause or exploit these mutations.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: the next step in human evolution [Re: Dogomush]
    #1663145 - 06/26/03 03:46 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Maybe we will all plug into machines and fight against alien invaders using our minds to control hundreds of robots simultaneously. If you are stupid, then your base would be overrun and you'd all die, but if you were smart, then you could defend your base



Have you ever read the book "Ender's Game"?  :crazy: 


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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Offlinenubious
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Re: the next step in human evolution [Re: Adamist]
    #1663408 - 06/26/03 03:41 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

we do not take part in natural selection. all of our genes are in a huge pool and none are leaving, they are just getting mixed up.




I think we take part in natural selection, but it's going the way it isn't supposed to. How many trailer park people do you see spawning off farms of children, when the upper-class / more educated are limiting thereself to 1 or 2 kids?

Maybe it's good that way - the trailer park people will be used to working low end jobs and just getting by, so the educated upper-class children will have people to work for them in the future.. no wait.. that's the society I disagree with - scratch that.

Quote:

I wonder what would happen if certain humans did evolve into a new species. Would both species live in harmony with one another? Or would one species wipe the other out?




I think the farther evolved species would be killed off by the government due to 'terrorism' laws or some such drabble... People fear people they don't understand, and scared animals fight for their life when cornered.


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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Offlinepattern
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Re: the next step in human evolution [Re: nubious]
    #1663417 - 06/26/03 03:44 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

the trailer park people will be used to working low end jobs and just getting by, so the educated upper-class children will have people to work for them in the future




Good observation! 

The average upper-class individual uses more resources than the average lower class individual. :shake: 


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man = monkey + mushroom


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OfflineSilentSheep
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Re: the next step in human evolution [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1665494 - 06/26/03 09:17 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

infidelGOD - there's even a theory that the use of psychedelics is what lead to the rapid growth of the human brain.

I'd like to clairify some things if i could. There has been some excellent comments requarding the positive and negitie attributes of entheogns (psycedellic drugs). For example, Adamist emphasized how many people refuse to surrender to awairness of their own actions from the past, ie. their reflection, (i feel thats all of us, to some degree) It's scary when we see our own superficiality, because we realize the one we've been shitting on ourselves the most, this is nessesary- so lets wake up A.S.A.P.- let's activate our imaginations to hyperdrive with the use of phycedellic drugs, prayer and meditation and Yoga~
We are told our entire lives that we should feel guilt for using these "Harmful substances" that they will "Destroy us" These NATURAL drugs, "are what is making this country fall apart"~ While alcohol and ciggerates kill more people then all other drugs combind....X 1000 folks x 1000 pretty scary isn't it. While in truth these pyscedelics and other drugs such as, cannibus, LSD, or mescalline, are against the law- not because the government fears for holes in our brains, not because idiots jump off school buildings high on LSD, NOT because these drugs "threten the moral and ethical stature of human kind". It because, to place this softly in the words of Bill Hicks- these are drugs that "make you realize that your being FUCKED everyday of your life". In my opinion, TV will put a larger Gap in your brain then Exticy will. Marajuana is a gateway drug- True. A gateway to what?? hrmm.....a gate way toooooo. let that maranate folks-


a gateway to heaven.
yes, and i repeat, a gateway to heaven.
The next step in evolution, is our ability to question authority, and think for ourselves. Because we are wholly creatures of God, and when we surrendur all of who we are, or who we think we are, in truth we are cleansing ourselves from fear and guilt of pain, so we my rediscover our true wills- thus strengthen our communication. So open wide my fellow Brothers and sisters of Light, Love, Liberty and Life- it's time to evolve!!


And a note to atomikfunksoldier, who said:
all the peices of my life are coming together before mine eyes.

I welcome to the club, brother!



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OfflineSilentSheep
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Re: the next step in human evolution [Re: SilentSheep]
    #1665505 - 06/26/03 09:22 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

heh im a dork


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: the next step in human evolution [Re: buckwheat]
    #1665590 - 06/26/03 10:00 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

some people need to get off the "psychodelicks make U smrt!" trip. there are plenty of enlightened and intelligent folks making huge contributions to mankind without the use of any sort of drugs. drugs can be a tool to reach enlightenment, but it's not the only way, and more often it's a better way to delusion than enlightenment. it depends what mindset you already have when you start your "journey"


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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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OfflineAdamist
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Re: the next step in human evolution [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #1666053 - 06/27/03 01:29 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

It's all about survival.
The shaman's path is a path through the negative, demonic side of reality. Psychedelic drugs, intoxication, sex, nudity, physical abuse, and self denigration are all frequently part of the way of the shaman. Those who take a shaman's path become either lost in a maze of self-delusion or, if they are among the few survivors, they are freed of the yoke of mediocrity and opened to a vision of the Origin- the source of all things.


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OfflineRhizoid
carbon unit
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Re: the next step in human evolution [Re: Adamist]
    #1666130 - 06/27/03 01:54 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

What's the survival rate among shamans?


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