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Re: Why Has the Magic Mushroom Evolved Into Existence? [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #8916245 -

:werd:

This world needs more people like us.

Not to sound arrogant or anything.

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Re: Why Has the Magic Mushroom Evolved Into Existence? [Re: AdoreChampignons]
    #8976852 -

AdoreChampignons said:
  Is it just accidental? 


Here's a simple explanation.

One of the most important classes of macromolecules for living organisms are proteins.  All living organisms have proteins and they are all, with some exceptions, made of the same 20 amino acids.  As it would be beneficial to conserve amino acids and to use common building blocks in many processes, it would then be expected that living organisms will produce molecules (from macromolecules to secondary metabolites) that are very similar in structure.

What circumstances specifically led to the production of psilocin to be preserved by natural selection, I am not sure.  However, I really don't think it's at all surprising, given how many different life forms there are on this planet and given that we share the same genetic code and are made of the same building blocks, that sometimes eating those other organisms can lead to complications.

Your post may as well ask:

Doesn't it seem just way too amazing to you to be coincidence or accidental that botulinum toxin also has such amazing cosmetic effects?  Why did Clostridium botulinum evolve to produce this compound which is so useful in cosmetic procedures?
 
Quote:
What do you think?


I think that you realized that the first part of your post was starting to ask a ridiculous question.

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Re: Why Has the Magic Mushroom Evolved Into Existence? [Re: Plasmid]
    #8976878 -

Quote:
Why did Clostridium botulinum evolve to produce this compound which is so useful in cosmetic procedures?



This mystery keeps me awake nights... :wink:


--------------------

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Re: Why Has the Magic Mushroom Evolved Into Existence? [Re: AdoreChampignons]
    #8977080 -

Some people have a problem with this, but why not it be pure chance?
Fungi have had sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much time to evolve and I mean sooooooo much time.  Don't completely trust this statement, but I believe fungi were one of the first organisms to hit or evolved onto land.(I know i know, spare my use of wording)  Without fungi, how would matter be recycled on land?  Plant debris would just stack endlessly until some strong gust came by.

Anyway, fungi have had opportunities out the wazoo( hehe, I guess literally) for this "special" selection that we find so valuable. 

I think it's just chance.  The chance of x amount of mutations happened and there's a toxin or substance that the fungi has.  Just like plants and maybe just like humans synthesizing new substances.


sooo like in chemistry...  A molecule reacts with another molecule.  One molecule may just steal an electron(electrophilic) forming or breaking bond(s).  This 'new' molecule that formed has a different conformation than before.  The new conformation may be susceptible to other molecules that weren't possible before, because of steric hinderance(repulsion of elements/atoms within a molecule) or the electrophilic atom that initiated the reaction is not electronegative enough to pull the initiation through.

The same, I feel, is applied to humans and experience in life.  We're exposed to an event, changes our way of thinking, making us more susceptible to a 'new' range of ideas.

Anyway.  i'm off, hoped that opened you up to some new perception :smile:


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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Re: Why Has the Magic Mushroom Evolved Into Existence? [Re: Cracka_X]
    #8978265 -



I don't think the presence of psilocybin is a coincidence; there are no coincidences (albeit RAW's "cosmic giggle"). It's becoming can clearly be accounted for by cellular evolution, protein synthesis, or survival adaptation among other factors. No shit. But those explanations do not account for why it is extremely compatible with human brain metabolism, why the 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin) molecule so closely resembles endogenous neurotransmitters like serotonin, nor why the experience itself almost consistently induces a transpersonal experience. This is discussed in greater detail in Ralph Metzner's "Ayahuasca and the Spirits of Nature".

Also, I'm very surprised no one has mentioned Terence Mckenna amidst all of this. He has a few popular / good ideas about it, though people seem to quote him on this particular thesis only because its easier to point fingers at a person of intellectual authority rather than thinking for yourself.

Through the eyes of biological evolution, there is no static state of being, all is in flux. It takes a stretch of the imagination, but the essence of what psilocybin does to our species is not unique, it just happens to be represented in this particular time and space within fungi. As an energy, as an influence, it has always existed in prehistoric sunsets, rain drops, and falling leaves. With the right breeze it came to be, but with the right dosage you can see it has always been.

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Re: Why Has the Magic Mushroom Evolved Into Existence? [Re: AdoreChampignons]
    #8979014 -

I recommend to OP Terrence McKenna's Food of the Gods. You should be able to find a PDF relatively easily online. McKenna encouraged his books to be available to anyone. He has an abundance of fascinating theories regarding this topic and the like about mushrooms.

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Re: Why Has the Magic Mushroom Evolved Into Existence? [Re: Arden]
    #8979308 -

>But those explanations do not account for why it is extremely compatible with human brain metabolism

Because if it wasn't, we wouldn't be talking about it. That, alone, is enough to explain the entire situation.

>why the 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin) molecule so closely resembles endogenous neurotransmitters like serotonin

Because that's why it works? Really, there's nothing unusual about this.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Why Has the Magic Mushroom Evolved Into Existence? [Re: zouden]
    #8979357 -

zouden said:
>But those explanations do not account for why it is extremely compatible with human brain metabolism

Because if it wasn't, we wouldn't be talking about it. That, alone, is enough to explain the entire situation.


Exactly.  It's like asking; why are the conditions on Earth so perfect for life?  (aka therefore it must be designed that way for a reason.) Instead, it's because if it was any other way we simply wouldn't be here to ask the question in the first place.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Why Has the Magic Mushroom Evolved Into Existence? [Re: deCypher]
    #8979366 -

And I suppose that my cats aren't furry and adorable because God wanted me to love them?  :mad:

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Re: Why Has the Magic Mushroom Evolved Into Existence? [Re: Veritas]
    #8979382 -

God's actually a dog-lover.  I'm sorry, but it's been pre-ordained that you're going to burn in the fires of feline hell for all of eternity.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Why Has the Magic Mushroom Evolved Into Existence? [Re: deCypher]
    #8979398 -

At least I'll have good company.  :snub:

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Re: Why Has the Magic Mushroom Evolved Into Existence? [Re: Veritas]
    #8979413 -

Even Varg Vikernes of black metal fame shows the association to feline fiends.  The connection is unescapable--by accepting these vermin of hell into your home, you are clearly rejecting God.



--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Why Has the Magic Mushroom Evolved Into Existence? [Re: deCypher]
    #8979446 -

Better a Godless home than a catless one!  :nicekitty:

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Re: Why Has the Magic Mushroom Evolved Into Existence? [Re: Veritas]
    #8979464 -

Just for saying that, God will make sure you spend the last years of your life as a crazy cat lady.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Why Has the Magic Mushroom Evolved Into Existence? [Re: zouden]
    #8979475 -

One of the worst ways to die: get swarmed by hordes of feisty, un-declawed cats.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Why Has the Magic Mushroom Evolved Into Existence? [Re: zouden]
    #8979532 -

What makes you think I'm not a crazy cat lady now?  :crazy:

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Re: Why Has the Magic Mushroom Evolved Into Existence? [Re: Veritas]
    #8979545 -

:lipsrsealed:


--------------------

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Re: Why Has the Magic Mushroom Evolved Into Existence? [Re: deCypher]
    #8979585 -

The Cypher said:
Or it was just chance that these mushrooms evolved psilocybin and that it resembles one of our neurotransmitters simply by accident.


Seems the most rational explaination, just another cosmic dice throw :thumbup:

Psychedelics are amazing, it just goes to show how fragile our mind is.


--------------------
Jesus loves you.

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Re: Why Has the Magic Mushroom Evolved Into Existence? [Re: deranger]
    #8980894 -

From an evolutionary standpoint, I'd say that that certain species of mushrooms developed their psychedelic properties as a defense mechanism. Humans just didn't mind it as much.

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Re: Why Has the Magic Mushroom Evolved Into Existence? [Re: Boots]
    #8981224 -

that sounds like one severely limited assumption, it's kind of obvious it's incomplete and nowhere near accurate.

being that the psilocin and serotonin molecule are very much alike, it makes sense that there is a major connection between the evolution of psychedelic mushrooms and the human brain.  my guess is that the earth and the human mind are evolving together as some sort of collective intelligence.

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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