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OfflineEvilBastard
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Registered: 06/29/02
Posts: 98
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Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Canada Can't Shake Somali Scandal..Torture-Killing
    #828159 - 08/19/02 02:19 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Canada Can't Shake Somali Scandal; New Military Chief Quizzed on Troops' 1993 Torture-Killing
by Charles Trueheart, Washington Post Foreign Service

TORONTO, Dec. 29

The murders early this month of a black couple in Fayetteville, N.C., allegedly by two U.S. Army airborne soldiers holding white supremacist views, have painfully familiar overtones for the Canadian military.

Canada's ugly antecedent is known as the Somalia affair: the 1993 torture and murder of a Somali teenager by Canadian airborne soldiers, and the culture of racism and brutality in the ranks that it exposed.

The Somalia revelations during 1994 and 1995 anguished the nation and traumatized the Canadian military. The perpetrators were court-martialed. But a military inquiry continues into the events surrounding the murder as well as the chain of command -- and what looks like a cover-up -- all the way to the Department of National Defense in Ottawa.

The government of Prime Minister Jean Chretien, which was not in office at the time of the murder, has had to preside over the unpleasant aftermath. It was buffeted last week when its nominee to become Canada's top military officer, Air Force Lt. Gen. Jean Boyle, was described in press reports as being under investigation for his handling of documents related to the Somalia inquiry.

Defense Minister David Collenette, shepherding Boyle through a grueling introductory news conference, said "Gen. Boyle is not under investigation" but is cooperating with the inquiry. Boyle said the documents in question were "in no way connected to Somalia. "

But he was pressed by reporters to explain his earlier insistence that the same documents did not exist. After whispered counsel from Collenette, Boyle said the issue was "a matter for the investigators."

The Canadian airborne was disbanded in January after the murder of Shidane Arone, a teenage Somali thief, was followed by embarrassing videotaped footage of racism and brutal hazing in the regiment formerly known for its wartime heroics. One segment depicted Canada's U.N. peacekeepers in Somalia referring to local citizens as "nig-nogs" and joking about hunting Somalis as trophies.

Another tape showed a black airborne recruit crawling through a gantlet of blows and a shower of human waste with the words "I love KKK" scrawled on his back. That soldier later said he hadn't minded the treatment, in the context of the hazing ritual, and didn't consider his buddies racists.

As long as it existed, the Canadian airborne considered itself a kindred spirit of the fabled 82nd Airborne Division based at Fort Bragg, N.C. -- the division to which the three soldiers charged in the Fayetteville case belong.

In the view of Desmond Morton, a leading military historian here, "the [Canadian] airborne was spending too much time down in Fort Bragg, picking up the ethos, the gung-ho fighting spirit of the 82nd."

Morton offered a sociological explanation for incidents such as the Somalia affair and the Fayetteville killings.

"The more you get into the killing trades," he said, "the more likely you are to get people from small towns and other back-of-beyond places who don't have a great education or career prospects otherwise. They're keen on adventure. They're not there to learn a trade."

As members of an airborne unit, Morton said, "they're taught that they're superior beings. They jump out of airplanes and they're given silver wings for it. And then they're licensed to do things criminals do."

Nicholas Stethem, a former Canadian airborne officer and now a private military analyst here, said:

"Airborne operations force more responsibility on the individual soldier. You want an individual who will push himself, prove himself. But you also get an individual who wants to prove he's a tough guy and who adopts that badge of identity -- someone who for the same reason might join a motorcycle gang."

But Stethem cautioned against too sweeping a comparison between the two events. Published photographs of Confederate flags in the quarters of Canadian airborne personnel suggest some common interests. But the two most serious offenders in Arone's murder happened to be Canadian Indians -- "so they wouldn't be white supremacists," he said.

In the view of several analysts, the stain of racism that the Somalia affair has left on the airborne has been motivated by military critics and fueled by the media. They said it shouldn't obscure the real problems of selection, support and leadership that were responsible for the regiment's troubles -- or the vastly more critical issues facing the Canadian military establishment in the throes of radical, budget-driven downsizing.

All those issues will crowd the plate of Gen. Boyle, who was sworn in Thursday. He succeeds Gen. John de Chastelain, whose five years as chief of the Canadian Defense Staff were interrupted by a year in Washington as Canadian ambassador.

The appointment of the relatively junior Boyle, a 48-year-old former fighter pilot, to Canada's only four-leaf military job surprised some analysts here. They noted that more senior candidates had been passed over -- or declined the offer.

Alex Morrison, president of the Lester B. Pearson Canadian International Peacekeeping Training Centre in Clementsport, Nova Scotia, praised the combination of military and political skills Boyle would bring to the job.

Col. Michel Drapeau, a defense commentator for the maverick military magazine Esprit de Corps, lamented the appointment. In the Toronto Sun, he described Boyle as "the spin doctor of the Somalia affair."

Source


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Canada Can't Shake Somali Scandal..Torture-Killing [Re: EvilBastard]
    #828165 - 08/19/02 02:21 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

this can't be true because Canada is perfect


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,720
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Canada Can't Shake Somali Scandal..Torture-Killing [Re: EvilBastard]
    #828177 - 08/19/02 02:26 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

My opinion of the Canadians, high and mighty do no wrong know whats good for the world dislike the US we're better than you people, is now crushed.

Whatever is the world coming to.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Canada Can't Shake Somali Scandal..Torture-Killing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #828189 - 08/19/02 02:32 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, that was a shameful part of our past..10 years ago mind you, but shameful nonetheless. No-one here ever said Canadians were perfect...YOU said that. We're just more perfect than you! Bear in mind, that was largely an American war..not ours...we just decided to help.

And just for the record, that branch of the military was disbanded because of that incident.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (08/19/02 02:35 PM)


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OfflineEvilBastard
journeyman
Registered: 06/29/02
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Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: Canada Can't Shake Somali Scandal..Torture-Killing [Re: Rono]
    #828197 - 08/19/02 02:34 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Im just trying to understand what its like to cut and paste attacks on another country all day.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Canada Can't Shake Somali Scandal..Torture-Killing [Re: EvilBastard]
    #828204 - 08/19/02 02:37 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

How was I attacking your country?...By trying to help you see the truth? You haven't shown me anything that isn't common knowledge.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (08/19/02 02:37 PM)


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OfflineEvilBastard
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Registered: 06/29/02
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Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: Canada Can't Shake Somali Scandal..Torture-Killing [Re: Rono]
    #828209 - 08/19/02 02:39 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

What did you do before 9/11? What conspiracies did you discover before then?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Canada Can't Shake Somali Scandal..Torture-Killing [Re: EvilBastard]
    #828211 - 08/19/02 02:40 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

trust me..it's like talking to a wall.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineEvilBastard
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Registered: 06/29/02
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Re: Canada Can't Shake Somali Scandal..Torture-Killing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #828217 - 08/19/02 02:42 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I realize that. Focusing on the perceived faults of another country is simply a way of avoiding looking at the faults your own.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Canada Can't Shake Somali Scandal..Torture-Killing [Re: EvilBastard]
    #828230 - 08/19/02 02:47 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I gree. The US is not perfect but strives to do the right thing....when was the last time countries like Canada have spear-headed feeding starving children across the world? Have they loaned countries money to rebuild? Have they just given poor countries money knowing they'd never see it back, Does Canada protect it's allies from aggression?

NO...maybe to a small extent but mostly no..


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Canada Can't Shake Somali Scandal..Torture-Killing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #828242 - 08/19/02 02:50 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

In reply to:

Canada have spear-headed feeding starving children across the world? Have they loaned countries money to rebuild? Have they just given poor countries money knowing they'd never see it back, Does Canada protect it's allies from aggression?NO...maybe to a small extent but mostly no..



Canada is one of the biggest donators of food in the world, Yes we also give money to help countries rebuild, and what exactly are you protecting us from again?

And I don't recall saying anywhere that Canada was without problems, but our issues don't affect the world either...you gotta pick your battles one at a time.

And before 9/11 I never had any interests in the U.S. whatsoever...but for some reason the majority of you are deciding to turn a blind eye to the obvious..so be it.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (08/19/02 02:52 PM)


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OfflineEvilBastard
journeyman
Registered: 06/29/02
Posts: 98
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: Canada Can't Shake Somali Scandal..Torture-Killing [Re: Rono]
    #828264 - 08/19/02 03:00 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Yes we also give money to help countries rebuild

Source? Which countries besides afghanistan?

and what exactly are you protecting us from again?

You skipped my other post about canada wanting tighter ties with our military. If you want to know, ask your government.

but for some reason the majority of you are deciding to turn a blind eye to the obvious

Rantings from obviously biased people with questionable mental health do not qualify as reliable sources (rense.com). A "blind eye" to that rubbish is an educated response.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Canada Can't Shake Somali Scandal..Torture-Killing [Re: Rono]
    #828273 - 08/19/02 03:04 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

****Canada is one of the biggest donators of food in the world****

maybe to a lesser extent...but hardly the top donator

****Yes we also give money to help countries rebuild****

like i said to a lesser extent...a very lesser extent

****but for some reason the majority of you are deciding to turn a blind eye to the obvious****

a blind eye to what? Don't tell me that the list of passengers is your smoking gun...go back to hunting seals and leave the investigating to the investigators


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinefoghorn
enthusiast
Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 308
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Canada Can't Shake Somali Scandal..Torture-Killing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #828425 - 08/19/02 04:26 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

NOBODY HAS SOURCED ANYHTING IN THIS THREAD

YOU ARE ALL JUST BICKERING.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Canada Can't Shake Somali Scandal..Torture-Killing [Re: foghorn]
    #828524 - 08/19/02 05:09 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

you win the Mr. Obvious award...thanks for playing


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Canada Can't Shake Somali Scandal..Torture-Killing [Re: EvilBastard]
    #828797 - 08/19/02 07:29 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

This is old news. OLD.

hehe, they even find a way to blame the Americans:
"In the view of Desmond Morton, a leading military historian here, 'the [Canadian] airborne was spending too much time down in Fort Bragg, picking up the ethos, the gung-ho fighting spirit of the 82nd.'"


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: Canada Can't Shake Somali Scandal..Torture-Kil [Re: Phluck]
    #829186 - 08/19/02 10:18 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

This is old news. OLD.

Yep. Happened nine whole years ago. What's that, half a lifetime ago for some of the folks posting here?

I guess it's not fair to point fingers at the Canadian government for stuff that happened nine years ago. But if we're talking about the USA -- whoa! Different story! Everything from Viet Nam to slavery to the killing of Native Americans in the seventeenth century is fair game.

Can we say "hypocrisy"?

pinky


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Canada Can't Shake Somali Scandal..Torture-Kil [Re: Phred]
    #829478 - 08/20/02 05:45 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Somehow one Somalian teen (who was a soldier) doesn't rank on the same scale as Vietnam, or Iraq, or Afghanistan, or...need I continue?


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Canada Can't Shake Somali Scandal..Torture-Kil [Re: Rono]
    #829574 - 08/20/02 07:20 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

shocking..it truley is


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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