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Offlinewhiterastahippie
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Religon haters: evolving or devolving?
    #760571 - 07/20/02 12:18 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

people who hate religion are in my humble and personal opinion just confused immature children trapped in adult bodies. they are never wrong as far as they know, and they always look to start the first fight. usually very bitter and hateful. they have no chi. they do not understand what zen is. and sadly enough, they probably never will. i think that millions of years ago man didn't know about religion of any type brand or sort, and he was a stupid cavefart. then he started to understand the realm of the spiritual world in which more things go on and happen then ever have or ever will in this petty physical world. and since he started to understand things higher then him, he found ways of connecting with them. therefore he advanced in his mind and thinking, so his body followed.
now we have people who hate religion because they don't know what it really is, and frankly, don't care to find out. they just want to kill it. countering them is useless. their ears are for their own words only. and if they were to succeed in trashing every last trace of religion, then we would inevitably return to stonecavefarts. the physical can only take you so far. the mental a little farther. but the spirit. ah the life force in each one of us....our individual energy. it will last forever...how do i know this? energy cannot be detroyed, and so my life energy will live forever.
so saying, i think i will evolve myself over to my bed and dream about religion bashers slowly turning into monkeys. they aren't far now. monkeys schreech. so do they. monkeys don't make sense. neither do they! monkeys get really really angry over stupid shit. so do they.




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InvisibleMystical_Craven
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Re: Religon haters: evolving or devolving? [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #760668 - 07/20/02 01:35 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

You've got some pretty good points there, but religious fanatics are the same way. Some people get so damn wrapped up in their beliefs that they completely shut out the rest of the world. And I'm not talking about openly religious people here or even people that choose to go to church four times a week or whatever, the people I'm mainly referring to are cults and television evangelists and all these other people that eat, sleep, and shit their beliefs to the extent they accept absolutely nothing else as even being a possibility. I know an entire church of people that believe in every single word of the Bible in the literal sense...and not a one of them will even consider the fact that they can't take it literally word for word simply because the versions of the Bible around today aren't the same as the original manuscript (due to everything from slight changes in translations from one language to another, to dogmatics like King James) These people are so completely closed-minded and set in their ways that there is quite literally absolutely no way to even get them to consider the fact that they just might be slightly off on one or two of their beliefs. As far as I'm concerned that's just as bad as the ignorant people out there that refuse to acknowledge the fact that there's more to understanding life then what's written in a sixth grade Earth Science book.





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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Religon haters: evolving or devolving? [Re: Mystical_Craven]
    #761328 - 07/20/02 08:52 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Well said. Both 'sides' are guility of bashing and hatred. Your post wasn't exactly warm and accepting. I am an atheist and I used to bash religion for the bad things that it did. I didn't acknowlege the good things it did and didn't realize that ranting and bashing is dumb. It doesn't change anything except for creating disdain and hate. I accept good Christians, bad Christians, crazy Christians, bad atheists,... whatever. I accept them all because the fact that the exist is reality and I can't change that. Not with ranting and contempt anyway.

And even religion-haters can know what zen is.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Offlinewhiterastahippie
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Re: Religon haters: evolving or devolving? [Re: Mystical_Craven]
    #761333 - 07/20/02 08:55 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

closed minded people suck in general. period.
they hold back the rest of the human race...colombus says that the world is round. closed minded people say that's impossible. i say i tripped off a shroom that stains red yet didin't get sick...closed minded people disagree. pure religion is bullshit. pure science is bullshit. but if you take the best from both...you find that maybe neither is very wrong.


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Peace and Love to all!


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Offlinewhiterastahippie
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Re: Religon haters: evolving or devolving? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #761358 - 07/20/02 09:04 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

cyber chump, dude, you are so right, and i apologize for being rough on atheists, that wasn't my intent...one of my life goals besides being ridiculously famous and getting drugs legal, is to make normal rational beings laugh at every word that is uttered from a hater/basher's mouth.

but i think religion HATERS can't know what zen is.
zen. if you can look at a stick and describe it and understand it in every possible way. that is zen. if you hate something, you can't have zen.
now if you DISAGREE with religion, but don't hate it. then zen will come to you.
but hate and zen are opposites. zen is perfect understanding and peace. and to have that, you must have perfect understanding and love. for everything can be brought back to love, everything except hate.

screw rock and roll, i have rasta roll.
peace and harmony my brothers and sisters.



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Peace and Love to all!


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Anonymous

Re: Religon haters: evolving or devolving? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #761463 - 07/20/02 09:54 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

"Well said. Both 'sides' are guility of bashing and hatred. Your post wasn't exactly warm and accepting. I am an atheist and I used to bash religion for the bad things that it did. I didn't acknowlege the good things it did and didn't realize that ranting and bashing is dumb. It doesn't change anything except for creating disdain and hate. I accept good Christians, bad Christians, crazy Christians, bad atheists,... whatever. I accept them all because the fact that the exist is reality and I can't change that. Not with ranting and contempt anyway."

Well said.

Cheers,


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: Religon haters: evolving or devolving? [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #761617 - 07/20/02 10:42 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Have you ever thought about how many innocent human beings have been slaughtered in the name of religion? That may have something to do with it (i am not a "religion hater" myself).


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:egyptian:


Edited by Catalysis (07/20/02 10:43 AM)


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Offlinewhiterastahippie
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Re: Religon haters: evolving or devolving? [Re: Catalysis]
    #761873 - 07/20/02 12:00 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

people have been killed in the name of religion. but if i run up to some dude, and shoot him and say, "ALL HAIL BHAAL!!!" will you hate bhaal for the rest of your life?


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Religon haters: evolving or devolving? [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #762025 - 07/20/02 01:02 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

If I run up to some dude, shoot him, and say, "ALL HAIL ALIENS WITH POINTY EARS AND BIG FEET!!!" must you assume that aliens with pointy ears and big feet exist?


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinewhiterastahippie
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Re: Religon haters: evolving or devolving? [Re: Sclorch]
    #763223 - 07/20/02 09:35 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

dude you rock, that's hilarious. things should never get to serious.


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Religon haters: evolving or devolving? [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #763271 - 07/20/02 09:49 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Meditate for a little while on what seperates religion from spirituality. Are they one and the same?
Then see if you think differently.

Personally I don't hate religion.
But I can understand the backlash.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Offlineshroominsmurf
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Re: Religon haters: evolving or devolving? [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #763605 - 07/21/02 01:04 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

i think you got some people right on that, but at the same time, i don't think you undersatnd everything. about not liking religion, i was brought up as a christian, and i am no longer a christian, i found that i can connect closer with god without having my stupid relgious rules, and be one with god how i want to, whos to say that if u don't like religion you can't be spirtual and be a good person in society who isn't lost in his life?


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Offlineshroominsmurf
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Re: Religon haters: evolving or devolving? [Re: shroominsmurf]
    #763625 - 07/21/02 01:24 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

i think close minded people suck ass, i think that religious people are pretty damn close minded, thinkin they are the right religion and no one else is right. thats how i was brought up in my religion and i KNOW thats all bullshit, they are all trying to reach the same thing, open up your fuckin mind and see we're lal here to reach the higher good. i dunno, im not tryin to tell you your wrong in waht u say, because i think we agree on a alot of points i just think your wrong about people that don;t like religions, i do like some religions though Just think alot of it is bullshit rules that man made up. and takes away from the focus of the real point. am i making any sense?


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Offlinewhiterastahippie
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Re: Religon haters: evolving or devolving? [Re: shroominsmurf]
    #764234 - 07/21/02 11:19 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

making sense dude. at least to me ya are. just everybody involved in this forum, keep in mind that i specifically say religion haters. not just people who dislike it or disagree with it. but haters. people who HATE religion with a passion, so therefore hate people involved with it. if you don't fit that description, then it's all good. i just can't stand haters. bashers. anything like that. and dude, my mind is very open, i used to be protestant, then i was atheist, now i'm catholic. my mind is open. yeah i think i'm right and others are wrong, but not in the way you think...if it's part of my religion to think i'm right about it, then what can one say against that without telling me *i'm* wrong then therefore doing what they hate about christians. get my point? i may think you're wrong, but that's just called disagreeing. and i like to take disagreement a step farther and agree to disagree with you. so yeah, i think you're wrong, but that's okay, i accept you for who and what you are and how you believe is a huge part of that. now, in order to go any farther with this, i'm sorry, but i'm going to have to put down exactly what i put in another forum because this is almost the exact same discussion at this point.

But why do you need a religion ? You can be connected to god by yourself without the need of the institution church, you can be christian without the priest, you are a son of god like Christ was, he told you to believe in him, not to go to church every sunday morning.

Websters new world college dictionary. Internationally renowned for clarity, precision, and ease of use. third editon, completely updated: Religion (ri lij en) N. --
holiness, a system of religious beliefs. to bind together.
1) a Belief in a divine or superhuman power or powers to be obeyed and worshipped as the creator(s) and ruler(s) of the universe. b) expression or such a belief in conduct and ritual.
2) ANY (repeat ANY) specific system of belief and worship, often (but not always) involving a code of ethics and a philosophy [the christian religion, the buddhist religion, ect.] b) ANY (repeat again ANY) system of beliefs, practices, ethical values, ect. resembling, suggestive of, or likened to such a system. [humanism as a religion]
3) (this one really doesn't appy to the converstaion) the state or way of life of a person in a monestary or convent.
4) ANY OBJECT OF CONSCIENTIOUS REGARD AND PURSUIT-----*

i think the word religion gets used wrong. people say they don't want to follow a religion with doctrines and rules, but religion doesn't mean just that...it means so much more, just as the word "run" has over 30 meanings and deffinitions in most dictionarys.
so why do i need a religion? well, i could be way off in my reasoning here, but everybody has different opinions. here's mine.
because a religion is a system of beliefs. if there are more than two people who happen to share the same beliefs as i about worship, then why not join with them and worship with them? and if more want to join that's thier choice. totally. now you can bring up history and say people have died because they wouldn't join a religion. but there's no need. i'm aware of the fact that many people have been needlessly slaughtered by horrible religious fanatics. and i, as a christian, would like to (if possible) take the blame completely on myself (since i do associate with the same group of people as those murderers did) and apologize on behalf of my God, (who disdains hate and murder and force feeding of the religion he started) for what his confused and slightly over zealous but well intending children have done. and apologize on behalf of those over zealous children for what they have done. and if i could also take a punishment for them and therefore pay thier debts and make it better, i would without a second thought.
christians have done bad things. but christ and his bride, the Church have never sinned.
the deal with my particular religion is that somebody already thought of my system of beliefs years ago. and other people already joined with them. it's not institutionalized, it's just that they've been "bound together" by choice for thousands of years and happen to all have the same "specific system of belief and worship." but really, some people feel like maybe they were force fed on a religion. but it was just that it's a parents job to raise a kid, and how the parents believe is how they want thier kids to believe because they believe it to be correct and right. (sorry about the run-on sentence there )
and the people of the church, they just were of the notion that the kid believed in the same things as them, so they tried to make sure the kid knew what was considered wrong and right in this particular belief system. they meant well. give them credit for that. but if a person grows up and decides to change. why hold any type of animosity or bitterness in thier heart towards what they once were? they did change successfully right?
so why do i need an institutional church? i don't need it. that's a common mistake when people look at christians. they think we are inslaved, when many of us chose this as freely as others choose other things. i don't need it, as i said, i just choose to go along with the billions (and yes, there's that many catholics, we're the largest religion in the world) of people who agree with me totally about the concept of an all loving and generous creator. i'm not forced to follow dogma and rules, i choose to. God is very very clear about the fact that he gave us free will because he wants us to love him because of our own choice. sometimes man misinterprets that. but just because there are bad people in a church, does that mean you leave it? no! why? because if you are perfect, you have no need to ever go to church. but if you're not perfect. if you happen to be a person who sins and makes mistakes....hospitals are for the imperfect of body, churches are for the imperfect of the soul. nobody is perfect (except me....just kidding).
so yes, i can be connected to god myself. and i am. and since i feel so connected to him, i choose to go to church. now i don't make it every sunday. but i always have the intention. i'm not going to hell for not going to church.
and...(said in a very un-offending tone of voice ) who says i need a priest to be a christian? i don't. no catholic does. priests just happen to be people that love God so much they want to spend thier whole life serving him in every way they can. and priests, they aren't perfect either. they are human too. and God makes it very clear that for every sin they commit against him, they will pay for double what other people would. because people look up to them, and if they mislead (which sometimes they do) then they must pay for that too.
and in my religion, yes i'm a son of God like christ was, but unlike christ, i'm not God. christ was 100% god and 100% man. i am just 100% man.
but uh, also (SERIOUSLY, no offense intended) you are a little misinformed. christ in fact did tell us to go to church. many times. he refers to the church. "when any of you have a dispute, take it to the elders (priest comes from the word priestos meaning elder, also the word presbyter means the same thing) of the church". and when paul was persecuting the christian church, christ said, "paul, why do you persecute me?" also jesus speaks of law. "the law and the prophets were until john; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and every one enters it voilently. but it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one dot of the law to become void. (law: sometime, study up on jewish law and how they did thier ceremonies, then watch a catholic mass. you'd be amazed at the similarities.) yes, jesus set up a church on earth, in relationship with the church of heaven. and he wishes us to attend, because the mass is the closest thing to heaven we will get on earth.
and the catholic religion has been around for not just 2002 years...it's been around as long as people have worshipped God, because it's not a replacement for judiaism, it's a fullfillment of their old testament prophecies. so God worshippers (now called christians) have been around since the beginning of time.
just my view on it though. i'm not trying to change anybodies mind here, i just seek to be understood along with billions of other christians who are indeed misunderstood and therefore persecuted. i seek to change no minds because a mind changed against it's will... is of the same opinion still. just remember, notice everything, because it's the small things in life, that hinder God's light.

christianity is a religion of love and peace and tolerance. when anybody doesn't act like that but claims christianity, just think of them as baby christians who have not come to a full understand of thier faith, so just smile and nod when they try to convert you. but keep in mind, it is a big part of our religion to spead the word and information about it, it's just some people confuse "spead" with "force".


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Offlinewhiterastahippie
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Re: Religon haters: evolving or devolving? [Re: Jellric]
    #764256 - 07/21/02 11:31 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

jellric.
the true meaning of the word religion and spirituality....hmmmm. well, i just put the true meaning of the word religion in my last post.

spirituality according to the same dictionary means:
SPIRITUALITY
1)spiritual character quality or nature
2)the rights, jurisdictions, tithes ect. belonging to the church or an ecclesiastic.
3)the fact or state of being incorporeal

spirituality has everything to do with religion in my mind. they rely on one another. a sort of "spritual" symbiotic relationship.


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OfflineSheepish
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Re: Religon haters: evolving or devolving? [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #766326 - 07/22/02 03:46 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I think the key word there is HATERS. People who tend to hate things with such a passion seem to let anger get the best of them. It's a shame, because it happens to most of us. I don't believe in a God, or a Devil, however, I don't choose to go around yelling at Christians that they're idiots. I just simply accept that they can believe in what they wish. But when they try and preach and force that onto me, that is when I choose to throw some hate at their religion. I think even the beliefless can attain higher levels of consciousness. There is no one way to seek your God. No matter what it is.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Religon haters: evolving or devolving? [Re: Sheepish]
    #766370 - 07/22/02 04:36 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Most of you seem to forget that the War on Drugs is promulgated by the Moral Majority (read Christians). In their loving compassion, they want to see harmless pot smokers and shroomers do serious jail time for their "sins".


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Religon haters: evolving or devolving? [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #766857 - 07/22/02 09:50 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

"i think that millions of years ago man didn't know about religion of any type brand or sort, and he was a stupid cavefart. then he started to understand the realm of the spiritual world in which more things go on and happen then ever have or ever will in this petty physical world. and since he started to understand things higher then him, he found ways of connecting with them. therefore he advanced in his mind and thinking, so his body followed".... (let my continue this ) ... but man still disputed for the ultimate true connection using they're own beliefs to create means of power and war, as his mind evolved, man began to detach from dogmas, religion and inherent disputes adding a new spiritual and religious meaning to his life and creating space for a new deep understanding of his nature, thus evolving as a free minded individual, eventually mankind gathered to witness the ultimate thruth, TOGETHER.

I am a religious person as i believe there is "something" greater that controls the universe but i don't follow any particular religion, i don't hate religion, i just find it unecessary as it is bounded to man, i believe this bound is the last one to break before mankind can really find their answers. I also accept those who "hate" religion, just another point of view to be discused, i've talked to some and tey seem very mature and loving people so i don't understand when you say "confused immature children trapped in adult bodies", i mean, your spiritual life is important to some degree and somehow it affects your personality but not to a level to call immature others that disagree with you. Accepting others beliefs is a virtue but you don't seem to accept people that don't have a religion, if they hate religion then there's a reason for them to do so. As for me there are many reasons to despise the Catholic church, i really don't like it but as an example, i go to wedings in the church and i assist the cerimony, i don't participate but i respect it. When i go, i like to stare at people and i try to imagine them connecting to god using the ritual, well what do i see ? They sit down, they stand up, they pray, some sleep, others talk, some seem happy or not so happy, others go outside and smoke a cigar. I find it constructive in terms of socialization and it enriches the Catholic comunity, i just don't find it spiritualy enlightning, i believe in my essence as primary connection to that enlightment and that's what makes me fulfilled as an individual.
Ever wonder why you need a religion to be religious ?

As for what the dictionary tells you about religion, you should look at
my other post and you'll see that's not the only meaning the word has. When you say you believe in catholic religion, you're using a more categorized meaning, you're saying you believe in the institution, as it was the institution that created your system of beliefs.

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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Offlinewhiterastahippie
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Re: Religon haters: evolving or devolving? [Re: MAIA]
    #767118 - 07/22/02 11:25 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

sheepish: bravo and amen.
swami: not entirely true. you can't hold all christians responsible for what some christians do. besides, the bible says to resect the laws of your country unless they come in conflict with the laws of God. and so when weed gets legalized, millions of christians will change their tune. like my dad. he won't smoke until it becomes legal. and when it does, it won't be a "sin". but yes, you are mostly right. at least, to me. to you you are completely right. so it's all good!
maia: you are very analytical. and to you you are right, so it's all savvy gravy dude...but DAMN you are anti catholic. and like i said in my other post (i don't know how to do that fancy link thing you did, lol) most of your issues with the catholic church are based on falsifications. but i digress.

the whole point of this thread was just to say i love love and everything that stems from love (to me christianity is a religion of love). but i hate hate and everything that stems from hate. hate for anything but hate.. religion may be bad for you. but for billions, it is right. don't hate it. don't try to stop it. atheism has only been around for a couple hundred years. that's why christians who have been around thousands are so harsh on it. don't listen to everyone who just claims christianity. listen to the source. find out both sides... all sides. and remember that the universe is infinite, therefore holding infinite possibilities for right and wrong. true and false. so neener neener !


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Religon haters: evolving or devolving? [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #767164 - 07/22/02 11:40 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

atheism has only been around for a couple hundred years. that's why christians who have been around thousands are so harsh on it.

You're joking right? Atheism is older than EVERY religion. Christians are harsh on it because it directly conflicts with their beliefs. Believing in God is a relatively new thing as far as life on earth goes. Apes don't pray.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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by Anonymous
* Organized Religion Vs. Gauge Bosons and the Lorentz Transform? toastdth 1,076 4 03/27/07 04:48 PM
by MarkostheGnostic
* And the origin of religion is... Dogomush 683 10 11/24/02 03:41 PM
by Revelation
* My view on religion . . . djd586 485 4 04/16/03 07:38 PM
by SlapnutRob
* Christianity and religion has helped us evolve. AlCapwn 613 12 01/14/09 11:50 AM
by WhiskeyClone
* organized religion= loss of appreciation 1stimer 698 3 09/15/02 09:19 PM
by Anonymous

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