uber_aj said:
leery11 - im not 16 and ive never been manic,
I did not say that you were, I was referring to the imaginary God.
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and karmna is wishful thinking, nothing more. ive done a lot of fucked up shit in my life, but i have peace of mind, sleep easy, have lots of really badass material possessions, and people seem to get along w/ me really well. i will never get my commupance.
I'm not sure if you know much about karma. that is fine, but then if you haven't investigated it thoroughly it is advisable to not dismiss it.
Karma just means things happen to you, and you are responsible for them happening to you. It means if you are a careless driver you are likely to rear end someone. It means if you have a bad temper you are likely to get into fights. It's completey pragmatic and based upon the concept of the conversation of momentum. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
Karma does not mean you kick a cat then you get run over by a truck and contract HIV. Karma means that you kick a cat out of anger, and now reacting violently out of anger is okay. So you develop an angry mind and foster angry characteristics. This impacts your entire life and subsequent lives until you learn to stop being angry. The more you nurture the habit the more it reaps fruit in your immediate and future circumstances. However extreme the habit is is however extreme the happenings will be.
Karma just means that all actions have consequences. If you kick a cat immediate consequences could be that the cat attacks and hurts you in defense. It could be that someone witnesses you kicking it, decides to hate you, and does something harsh to you in the future. It could be that you could even get arrested or fined for doing it. You could get away with it.
Then you have a plethora of long term consequences that stem from choosing to kick the cat. In choosing to do this you nurture thought habits which are not conducive to the cessation of suffering, but rather highly detrimental. If you let anger pile up in you to the point of physically harming a being who did nothing wrong to you, it means that you don't have a peaceful life in the first place. and then it makes it harder to have one each time you continue this behavior.
if done once it's one thing, if nurtured repeatedly you now have the persona and habits of an animal abuser, and becoming a deliberate animal abuser does not generally lead to having a peaceful and happy life.
karma then is a lot more present oriented, because each time you get really angry you have a chance to work on using the anger positively, and then you will gradually wean yourself of the deep habits in your brain that make you want to hurt kittens.... etc. it's very and entirely pragmatic.
So if you nurture lashing out in anger, when at first you have a choice not to. Now you are obligated to do it each time, and it becomes a hard habit to break which gives you suffering. Suffering means mundane unhappiness, boredom, dreariness, pain, sadness, blandness, dispassion, disease, suffering just means not being completely happy. So It may mean that you have watered and grown a massive temper and it gets you into a serious fight in which you get your ass kicked. It might mean that you just simply have to SUFFER because you have ANGER and anger is suffering.
And as soon as you let go of the habits in your being that make you react and lash out in anger against the helpless, your karma in any conceivable sense stops.... and then the only karma you would bear would perhaps be the karma that comes with things you have done that ARE fucked up, to other people, who are unable to forgive you.
If you hit your wife you have to deal with that forever. If she forgives you it's okay, if she doesn't this is going to harm you in some way shape or form. She may speak hateful horrible things about you to strangers. Then a stranger may meet you and judge you harshly because he has a false impression of you, etc.
If you are argumentative you get into arguments with people. If you are friendly you make good friends. If you are honest you live an honest life and enjoy the fruits of honesty.
We practice the eightfold path in order to purify our actions so that we do not suffer.
Your mind is your vehicle for the experience of your reality. However pure your mind is, your reality will be equally pure. If you make a habit out of hating niggers, you are going to suffer a lot around black people. They will suffer too because of it. It makes you more likely to get into conflict with black people. If you make a habit out of appreciating, loving, or thinking equally of african-Americans then every time you see a black person it isn't a big deal.
Imagine if you so so so so so hated black people that the very sight of them made your blood boil. That is suffering! That is immediate and instant karma.
Now imagine how radically different the future of a racist is than the future of a loving individual!? It's very simple. The racist constantly chooses (albeit involuntarily) to put himself into situations which see to it that his judgements are proven correct. Therefore the racist is preoccupied with being a racist and will inherit the fruit of his actions. Whereas the person who simply tries to flow in the Tao/Peace of things will have virtually no issues.
Karma means you are suffering. Suffering means that you aren't in a constant state of peace and euphoria. Choosing to do actions which bring about a disharmonious mind, such as things that even YOU would judge about YOURSELF calling them "fucked up shit", means that you will have a disharmonius life.
Karma is simply the conservation of momentum. It is scientific law applied to how our thoughts, habits, and tendencies produce results in this world.
You disrespect yourself if you disrespect others. You choose to live in a world of negativity rather than forgiveness. You are your only judge.
I hope you understand it. You will at some point, even if your understanding is totally different than mine. And it will help you greatly.
So as summation. You are a belligerant bastard. I say to you "hey dude the NY Giants suck" and you flip out and go berserk.
You are a friendly guy and I say to you "Hey dude the NY Giants suck" and you laugh and are like "what team do you like?"
Happiness is not possible in the former scenario. Happiness dependent upon anything external, such as satisfaction from making others suffer, is completely and totally conditional and fleeting.
Happiness resulting from drugs, tv, anything other than your own inner core, is temporary and unfleeting.
You are just going to reap karma based upon who you are as a person right now, it's not some mystical a grizzly bear breaks down your door and eats you for running over a kitten and enjoying it kind of thing.
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the character in the Sims can eat drink shit fuck and die just like me. he even has emotional reactions. but it would be impossible for the Sim to comprehend that he does not pyshically exist, since he only exists inside the programming of the computer and game. there is no possible way that sim can transcend into the realm in which i occupy, even if he believes he can. and when that sim dies, even though i watched him his entire life, i can do nothing for him. i think that this could easily parrallel any belief in a benevolent creator god that exists as a seperate entity. but ask almost any monotheist, and they'll tell you what a loving god god is, even if its the day after a drunk-driver kills their loved one. maybe that god is just an asshole like me, who sent that drunk driver there, just to change things up a bit. thats all im getting at.
i understand and its very interesting. Why do you think God is responsible for what happens to us? Christian thought emphasises "free will" however free will is a very paraodixcal (and unreal?) thing.
Everything you just described is a lot simpler IMO if you take God out of it and substitute with karma. Why does stuff happen? Because stuff happens. Free yourself from the matrix, realize you are programmed, realize you aren't free, and realie that yes you eat sleep and die and you think you have control of it, but it's actually not you in the driver's seat.
How an intelligent being comes into this I personally don't see how......
There are many intelligent beings that are enslaving us, but they are simply our fellow humans. There are many things programming how and why and when and in what way we eat sleep fuck shit, etc, but again they are just our fellow beings.
But it's just semantics and nitpicking at this point. I get what you're saying.
--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!
....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (08/31/06 07:53 PM)
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Interesting post. 
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