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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Re: This hyphus (thread) [Re: Manninee]
    #4755451 -

HM maybe I will lower my dose to.75g
didn't read the post above mine till just now Cu's i was in a hurry with the last dose.
i will try with acetic acid from Heinze vinegar.
you know would balsamic vinegar work? because balsamic tastes much much better or how about pickle juice for that matter?

EDIT: about what substrate these shrooms were from the same batch as my hero dose 10g's very potent might reconsider dropping dose to .50 but as of now i am capping it at .75 max


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OI OI OI

Edited by MrMolotov (10/04/05 06:12 PM)

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Re: This hyphus (thread) [Re: MrMolotov]
    #4755496 -

Damn, I was going to try this with 2 grams this weekend.  That number just dropped to 1 gram.  Good stuff! :grin:


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To find a place to live between the negatives and positives.

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Re: This hyphus (thread) [Re: Holydiver]
    #4755516 -

yea i will do .75 if i don't get my perfect conditions 1 gram if i get everything just right.
hm i wonder if 20 or 30 mg of adderall would also help intensify the effects because adderall would speed up your heart rate and with the hypothesis that more psilocin is in your blood stream that the adderall would speed its distribution to your brain maybe inducing a faster steeper come up? will experiment after i successfully complete the 1 g in vinegar trip.


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OI OI OI

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Re: Theories for how this potentiation works [Re: Manninee]
    #4755527 -

Thanks to everyone who has tried it and can verify it.  I know from experience that this works.  For those that have tried fruit juices in the past and aren't really agreeing, I can only ask that you try to recompare strengths between eaten and drank doses.  For the drinking doses, I ask that you recompare strengths between different liquids.  I have taken 12g dry of my personally grown rye/poo shrooms mixed with a milkshake and it barely felt like 2 grams eaten to me.  I have mixed with water, pop, and alcohol on different occasions and noticed a twofold effect if I was lucky, usually like 1.5 the eaten dose.  Orange and grapefruit always seemed to be twofold and above increase from eaten.  Cranberry seemed to increase the strength even further.  My friends and I have switched permanently to cranberry, because there is no doubt to any of us that it is way better(over 20 people).  I finally tried lemon/lime last week and it was way stronger than cranberry.  This is all just from my own experiences and what I have observed from them.  My near 3gram first experience with lemon/lime felt like I had taken 15, and I was much higher than I had ever been.  Like 2-3 times higher lol, and since I wasn't expecting it, it almost got out of control.  Now that I have tried it again, with a much smaller dosage, I am 100% sure that it definitely increases the effects by a factor of 3x or more.  If you try it, you will know too lol. 

Thanks Wiccan for getting the community involved more and actually trying yourself.  From your post on pHs you did, I am thinking lime maybe the fruit of choice.  pH of 1.8-2.0 and limes yield a lot of juice compared to a lemon.  After a few weeks of not tripping, I will try a pure lime juice mix and see if I can notice anymore increase.

As I said in my first post, be careful when trying this, don't do something like taking the most you ever did and trying it with this method.  That would be extremely dangerous imo.  You would probably be best doing 1/4-1/3 of your normal amount.  After experience, you will be able to figure out your proper dose correctly, that is what I plan to do.  This makes level 5 easily obtainable now, but may show some people that they don't really want to go there.  So trip responsibly everybody :smile:


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If you cut off my head, what would I say? Me and my head, or me and my body?

Edited by Underhillmaster (10/04/05 06:13 PM)

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Re: Theories for how this potentiation works [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #4755765 -

Another thought, since psilocybin and psilocin are alkaloids, they are not water soluble until the pH is lowered ( water becomes acidic).
When the pH is changed to acidic, the alkaloids will dissolve in water in a salt form. Alkaloids are, however, soluble in alcohol. Could we get a similar effect by soaking or mixing the shrooms in some vodka and taking a shot?

Perhaps the reason that the stomach acid doesn't potentiate effects is because gastric juice doesn't have as much time to act on the chewed shrooms filled with saliva before they leave the stomach and enter the intestines where they are neutralized.

Seems that pre-extracting the compunds into liquid makes it easier and is faster to absorb in the intestine.

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Re: Theories for how this potentiation works [Re: slammin007]
    #4756120 -

well, i guess the next step would be for someone to take an asorbic acid shrooms mixture, then a week later take a cranberry or lemon shroom mixture and compare their relatively effectiveness. I honestly think vitamin C by itself cannot be as effective as cranberry juice which contains a helluva lot more chemicals to aid in the process.

You must remember that our bodies absorbtion of artifical vitamin C is 8X less effective than natural vitamin C. Chances are the pills your using are artifical. Better include that info in your trip reports.

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Re: Theories for how this potentiation works [Re: yousuck]
    #4756336 -

just some info i know for a fact that vitamin C makes for a stronger trip because one of the things that asorbic (acid vitamin c)does is break down tryptomine making for a stronger harder faster trip hence why drinking orange juice can give you a slightly harder trip but im just speaking from an anatomical point of view

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Re: Theories for how this potentiation works [Re: doesntmattermuch]
    #4756497 -

this shit is crazy. when i read the origional account i thought it was bullshit and now different people are trying and getting the same results. What? getting a 2 gram trip from .25? amazing! this may well be a revolution in the psychedelic community. I'm def gonna try this for my next trip. mad props underhillmaster.


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:goose:

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Re: Theories for how this potentiation works [Re: Dimmy]
    #4756872 -

i want to try this badly, but i dont want to east 1-2gs this way, then not be at the level i want to be at and have try to up the dose later in the trip(which is a waste in my opinion. i usually think i wont eat more to try to re-up a trip, but when im tripping, i just dont think straight


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never be afraid to let your mind explore, just know what you are getting into b4 you jump in the deep end, and do your research on this site and erowid.com

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slapped together theory #1 [Re: the_psychonaut]
    #4757394 -

Acetic acid (Vinegar)plays a important part in metabolism.
Citric acid (lemon) plays little or ?? part in humans

Cranberry juice has a pH of 3.5
Psilocybin has a pH of 5.2

Psilocybin breaks down in the body to form Psilocin (the good stuff).
Psilocin is unstable in solutions, ESPECIALLY alkaline (Base)ones.

Psilocin is obtained by dephosphorylation (bonding of Phosphate) of psilocybin under strongly acidic or alkaline conditions.

*****So my theory goes like this;
Acidic drinks helps to "prep" the Psilocin for consumption by extracting Psilocybin & Psilocin into a highly acidic solution.

This solution has the Psilocin released in a liquid form so that is what hits you first like a shotgun I assume. The Psilocybin will have to be broken down into psilocin by your body, but that has a kick start due to the Psilocybin being in a "free form" liquid and the high acidity.

Also the concentrations of Psilocin alkaloids extracted with acetic acid (.25) were over 2x that of methanol extraction (.11) for P. cubensis.

Means stronger kick if not a shorter one I suppose, any reports on durations?

And for the final challenge for those with no taste buds left, try using vinegar to see if this helps to improve the experience.

Disclaimer: no test or experiences just an overactive mind with the Internet at my disposal and an anal personality, 'nuff said.

Edited by cornoir (10/05/05 01:19 AM)

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Re: This hyphus (thread) [Re: Asante]
    #4757563 -

Quote:
There definately is something going on beyond placebo here!


Actually you can't conclude that just like that, it could be very well a strong placebo effect. Even if it is placebo it's great that it works so well :thumbup:

What I'm trying to say is don't jump on any conclusions since you can't be really sure to make any. Everyone who tried this has read this thread and results are therefore biased. They think they're going to trip harder and maybe because of that they trip harder!(placebo)

Important!We also need people to try this out without knowing it (control group) and when they say themselves that the trip was stronger than usual (without asking them, wich may lead to false recollection of trip memory.*example: "Dude, whas this the strongest trip ever or what!? Well, now I think of it... it maybe was!". If it's really that much stronger they will tell you without having to ask them! :cool:). If they also report much stronger effects than we really might be on to something.

Not trying to bring a downer to this experiment, just trying to make it a better one :wink:

In the mean while keep doing this, as long as it works for you it's totally worth playing around with it :laugh:

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Re: Theories for how this potentiation works [Re: the_psychonaut]
    #4757566 -

STANDARDIZED PROCEDURE for EXPERIMENTING

--Empty Stomach (at least 3 hours with no food)
--Dried powdered mushrooms soaked for 15 minutes in 1-3 fl. oz. liquid
--Eating/drinking (glass of milk) at 1-1:30 hours into it (optional)


FLUIDS -- NATURAL STANDARDS
--Lime juice pH 2.0-2.35 (FDA)
--Lemon juice pH 2.0-2.6 (FDA)
--Cranberry juice pH 2.3-2.5 (FDA)
--Vinegar pH 2.4-3.4 (FDA)
--Grapefruit juice pH 2.9-3.25 (FDA)

FLUIDS -- ACID STANDARDS
--Ascorbic acid 5% pH 2.0 (MERCK)
--0.1N Citric acid 2% pH 2.2 (MERCK)
--0.1N Tartaric acid 1.5% pH 2.2 (MERCK)
--0.1N Ascorbic acid 1.75% pH 2.3 (MERCK)
--0.1N Acetic acid 0.6% pH 2.9 (MERCK)
fluids must be prepared as grams/milliliter from destilled/demineralized water and the corresponding food grade acids.

MUSHROOMS -- PSILOCYBIN STANDARD
a sample of well-dried Psilocybe cubensis must be ground to a well-mixed fine powder and stored airtight, preferably refrigerated or frozen. Each gram will have about equal potency and can be used across experiments to compare relative strengths. Given the currently reported potentiation ratio of 2-5x it is advisable to take 1/4 of the usual amount for those more reluctant to overshoot the mark and 1/3 of the usual amount for those more reluctant to fall short of the target.

PREPERATION OF THE CONCOCTION
the correct amount of acids is dissolved in the proper amount of water without residue. The recommended amount of liquid to prepare for one dose is 1-3 fluid ounces: less may not suffice and more liquid may dilute the mushroom extract too much and cause unneeded stomach discomfort. The mushroom powder is stirred into the liquid to avoid lumping and the liquid is left to steep for 15 minutes. If multiple doses are prepared it is crucial to divide the neat juice or acidic liquid into portions and add weighed amounts of mushrooms to them seperately to avoid uneven distribution of 4-HO-DMT. The concoction is not filtered.

USE OF THE CONCOCTION
After a 15 minute steep the concoction is drank at once on an empty stomach. It is preferable to not have eaten anything in over three hours and not to have drank water within 1:30 hour prior to dosing.
After 1-1:30 hours a light snack and fluids can be taken to dilute the acidic stomach contents, for instance a glass of milk or a sandwich with a glass of water. If the snack is light a booster dose can be taken between 3-4 hours after dosing for prolongation of the peak.

MINIMAL NOTES TO TAKE
--composition and quantities of the concoction's ingredients. If you don't have scales you can use 2-4 tablespoons of a juice listed above and a volume or division of mushroom powder you can compare with what you usually take. Thimbles make good standards for eyeballing mushroom powders. A statement like "I took half a thimble but it felt like two" although not as accurate as weighing still provides useful information.
--empty stomach & the optional snack taken
--with how much mushrooms the strength compares on 00:30-01:00-02:00 of the experiment and preferably more often, offset by an estimation after the effect has cleared
--prior drug use in the three days preceding or a week if it was heavy use
--typical and unusual observations objective and subjective


Be very careful not to overshoot the mark and don't use nonfood acids, acidities stronger than pH 2 nor large quantities thereof. Use common sense and prepare your doses in advance if you plan on redosing. It is proven to work so do not bump your head against the ceiling of what you can handle. Bring Underhillmaster a pie for his revolutioonary invention and thorough research. Proceed with caution and at your own risk!


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Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] [Re: Underhillmaster]
    #4757572 -

General reply

Good thread. I'm following this for a while now and it gets really interesting.

Before I say something about the value of your experiences, I have to say that I don't think you all aren't honest about your experiences. I'm just a bit skeptic because I've read a lot about doing research and placebo effect/power of the mind.

If we approach this scientific, we can only get indications of what might be the case. We can't draw conclusions from a few non-double-blind personal experiments that are influenced in some way or another by wishful thinking, confirmation bias, placebo effect, selective thinking and subjective validation.

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Re: This hyphus (thread) [Re: stefan]
    #4757582 -

Stefan, you're right ofcourse but a fivefold increase in potency is very unlikely to be placebo only, i'm pretty trained at what 0.25gr can do and this was so far off the mark it wasnt even funny :wink:

I know it is VERY unlikely but by now its very probable something is going on. Underhillmaster is experienced for more than 20 years and 100 trips and did trials on 20 acquantances for 6 months and the responses were uniform. Some initial critics here gracefully ate their words after experimenting. You don't often see that. I'm a veteran myself and got a forceful trip off a treshold dose.

We cant be sure yet but I'm a believer. How about trying it yourself and becoming a Bodysnatcher too? :evil:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] [Re: Annom]
    #4757585 -

I'm going to try this with 1.5g today  :laugh:

or 1g  :smirk:

Edited by Annom (10/05/05 03:22 AM)

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Re: This hyphus (thread) [Re: Asante]
    #4757595 -

Hi wiccan :smile:

It's very probably that something is going on, but we can't be sure is what I was saying. Please keep the idea of a control-group in mind (see my post above) to make it a better experiment.

I'll probably try it :cool:
...but I still don't feel like tripping yet since  this trip in the summer vacation :smirk: It is slowly starting to itch again though, so in a while I'll be ready for a new psychedelic adventure :grin:


PS have fun Annom!! *will be sending good vibes your way tonight!* :laugh:

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Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] [Re: Annom]
    #4757604 -

*closes blast doors* 1.5 grams you say?

Annom, may I ask you to repeat the Ascorbic experiment? You can get 1gr TR vitamin C at the Kruidvat which you can crush and dissolve in hot water (5 to 100ml, use half - you know) if you lack ascorbic acid powder. Many local supermarkets have knijpcitroenen (yellow for lemon, green for lime) should you not find fresh lemons/limes.

Please make notes in advance before you take your dose, so we can puzzle together what happened to you while you are doing same at a more fundamental level :grin:

Zet m op Annom  :thumbup: :thumbup:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] [Re: Asante]
    #4757609 -

Yes, I was already planning to repeat your experiment. I have 250mg vit C pills. I will take 1g cubes.

What kind of notes do you want me to make before I take my dose?

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Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] [Re: Annom]
    #4757618 -

The usual stuff, preparation specifics and such stuff easily washed away by a forceful trip. (and I hope you'll get one)
Remember that probably pH = k3y so water intake must be limited too as part of the "empty stomach". Also look whether or not the pill binders etc won't interfere with pH or absorption. (6 pills to make 30ml is alot of excipients) What are your usual shrooming amounts?

BON VOYAGE! I hope you'll have quite the ride!


My snack at 1:15h consisted of two worstebroodjes and a drink consisting of 200ml Sprite (lemon & lime drink!) and 200ml water.
I believe it somehow helped potentiate the effects further but that might well be placebo as I was already on the rise.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

Edited by Asante (10/05/05 04:06 AM)

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Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] [Re: Asante]
    #4757645 -

Ok, will do!

I will test the pH with lakmoespapier (pH paper).

I usually take 3-4g. I'm still experimenting with different doses though. I've always had 'control' over my trips so far so I'm confident 1g is not too much. The mushrooms are from a commercial shop where I always buy my mushrooms if I have to buy them. They have always been good and more or less the same potency. 

I'll ingest the mushrooms in a few hours, go to the forest, take a GPS to make sure I won't get lost, bring a notebook to make notes, bring some valium just for feeling confident(won't take it, 99.9% sure), look at the trees and have a journey trough my mind and nature :smile:

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