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Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Robotomy and Consciousness [Re: Swami]
    #4193963 -

:thumbup:

We as human beings could only be divine, I mean look at how egocentiric we are... so egocentric that often in certain religions Earth, was and still is the center of the universe, and the Sun revolved around it, and not vice versa.


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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Re: Robotomy and Consciousness [Re: raytrace]
    #4193971 -

What if we were to assume that we could develop a being that has AI that perfectly emulates the human condition and brain structure through programming?

Anyone see Blade Runner?

A little bit of plot info.
http://www.filmsite.org/blad.html


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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Re: Robotomy and Consciousness [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4194159 -

same thing. an emulation is an emulation, not the real thing

btw, bladerunner is a great movie. the book is even better

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Re: Robotomy and Consciousness [Re: raytrace]
    #4194290 -

what if we scanned a human brain and then duplicated it in silicone? (currently we lack the technology to scan so totally.)

a machine that used silicon neurons would work as long as you included everything. you'd have consciousness without understanding how it works.

just as a biological/carbon clone would still have its own consciousness, so would a silicon clone.

my consciousness is not an copy of my parents'. it happens because of the neural structures in my brain, creating its own unique consciousness. the neural structures are what matter, not whether the neurons themselves are carbon-based or silicon-based.


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger

Edited by crunchytoast (05/19/05 04:32 PM)

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Re: Robotomy and Consciousness [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4196504 -

what if energy is actually the one and only force that drives life? i don't mean any specific energy, i mean energy in general.
It'd mean having to redefine some of the standard ways of thinking about certain things. But i think it makes sense. Unfortunately my head's not the clearest atm so i can't explain my reasoning.

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Re: Robotomy and Consciousness *DELETED* [Re: newjon]
    #4199388 -

Post deleted by dorkus

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Robotomy and Consciousness [Re: dorkus]
    #4199761 -

is the definition of life related to the definition of consciousness?
for one it seems reproduction is most important, for the other it seems one must be insane in the membrane.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Robotomy and Consciousness [Re: dorkus]
    #4199763 -

so we are but tiny parts of one huge flowing stream/fabric of energy (for want of better words...language can be so inadequate at describing these thoughts! now i'm just beginning to understand some of the more abstract paintings out there. Although i still won't accept that chopping a pig in half and dumping the halves in formaldehyde is art)
of course, the energy is all fragmented, in a way. I think the closest we humans could ever experience to being back as pure energy is...heh...orgasm. Though i can't explain my reasoning, it's just a hunch i have tbh. I think being prue energy would "feel" somewhat like that, only way better, only, i don't know that you'd feel at all, seeing as you wouldn't have any sense of touch, etc. That i know of

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Re: Robotomy and Consciousness *DELETED* [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4202671 -

Post deleted by dorkus

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Robotomy and Consciousness [Re: dorkus]
    #4203141 -

brain/consciounsess = two sides of one coin?


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger

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Re: Robotomy and Consciousness [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4204407 -

Even H.A.L. was interconnected with the complex diversity of the universe, which man can not calculate yet and so he calls it god so far. Perhaps we will find a more 'scientific' name sone day.
Ignorance = Ignoring possibilities we can't scientifically calculate so far. That's the opposite of mysticism.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Robotomy and Consciousness [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4204434 -

just because we get to understand something better doesn't mean we must change its name..

so what then, we get all enlightened and understand what is god, and then change its name to bod or yod?


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Robotomy and Consciousness [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4204490 -

:smile:
Then some people won't be affronted by the meaning it implies to them so they could continue rational explorations and researches in those contexts of higher complexity. Such as consciousness after death, for example.
:heart:


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Robotomy and Consciousness [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4204506 -

yea, what you are talking about is exactly what happens in the book odyssey 3001 by Clark. In that time, people accept the idea of creation in the begining of the universe, but do not use the word "god" and everyone is almost ofended when Dave (the guy from 2001) mentions the word "god"

p.s. Perhapse we will once have a scientific explanation and a proof for consciousness after death


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Robotomy and Consciousness [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4205833 -

maybe a better word for "god" would be "energy"?  Is not everything in this universe, when you get down to a small enough scale, simply a form of energy? Energy that's bouncing around all over the place, often not entirely predictable, cos it's so happy at the pure joy of being  :lol:

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Re: Robotomy and Consciousness [Re: newjon]
    #4205933 -

yes, you can say that everything is energy. But god would be the face of energy


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Robotomy and Consciousness [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4205956 -

But god would be the face of energy
That's nice ! :thumbup:
And because consciousness has also much to do with energy, we can say that the question where HAL went is very important - and was tried to be answered by Clark.
This extremely correlates with the same human questions, they asked from the 'beginning of culture' until now.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Robotomy and Consciousness [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4205970 -

There is real way of telling if HAL really had consciousness. And even if we in real world make a machine similar to hal we will never know if he is conscious or just emulating consciousness. There is no way to tell from outside. Only he would know, and machines like him would know for sure. But if he wasn't conscious he would not know it, because there would not be "him" to know anything.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Robotomy and Consciousness [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4206204 -

Good point. But I think it somedays will be possible to measure 'consciousness'. Like comparing living with artificial 'consciousness'.
I think, the revealed point or the line when some patterns of self-organized informations lead to consciousness and which factors are necessary for that will massively shake our self-concerned and egocentric model of our world once again :wink:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Robotomy and Consciousness [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4207045 -

maybe, but we have to know what it is first, and we don't know right now and no reasearch or field of science is currently leading to that answer because nobody know where to start looking for the answer


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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