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Re: The Potential of Evolution [Re: stzacrack]
    #4194826 -

no, we use all of our brain. We can just use 10% at a time. I suspect drugs overload the brain activity so that it uses more of the brain at a time, but that would be sure death if it were constant.

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Re: The Potential of Evolution [Re: niteowl]
    #4194838 -

I would only call it evolution, if there was an abundant amount of people who were able to learn this, because of some mutation in their genes that allows them too.  When I say abundant, I mean millions and millions of people.  Evolution isn't developing abilities, it's mutations that allow you to do something different to help you survive.  I'm sure there are tons of different ways to look at it, and maybe in a small spectrum, yes that could be called evolution.  On one hand people would like to believe that they can evolve into having these abilities, and on the other hand, there are scientific ways of explaining that there is no possibility of evolution at all. 

I do not believe in evolution in the sense of us developing wings or something like that so we can fly or a special kind of retina or something that will let us have X-ray vision, but I believe that some people may be able to use their minds in ways others havn't found out how too, and harness energy, and use it like my friend did or something to that affect, and possibly teach others to use their minds to the extent he was able to use his. 

"Perhaps some people who do believe they can.....can...but only in a very small/weak way. If they practice this ability and get better/stronger at it.....isn't evolution?"
^I would say that this would not be evolution, but the ability to use your mind to do something that you had capabilities of doing, but never knew how to use it, and get better at it.  It's like developing a talent more than evolving.  At least that's my expression of what it means. 

By the way, I just started posting on this section of the Shroomery forum, and I enjoy discussing these topics with you all.  You're all very intelligent people, and it's interesting to see how different people can feel about things.  Thanks.

Later :mushroom2:

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Re: The Potential of Evolution [Re: stzacrack]
    #4194865 -

Evolution isn't developing abilities, it's mutations that allow you to do something different to help you survive.

The only evolution that WE have been able to witness and prove are genetic mutations in single celled organisms.

There is no way to prove how a multi-cellular entity such as our self evolved.

It is easy to fall back to the old tried and true mantra.....
"All evolution is simple, random, genetic mutation and nothing else."

We have NO idea about how we truly evolved......just speculation.

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Re: The Potential of Evolution [Re: niteowl]
    #4194894 -

? what the hell? Are you suggesting that we haven't seen mutations in multicellular organisms, because that is just false.

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Re: The Potential of Evolution [Re: vampirism]
    #4195128 -

Didn't say that we haven't seen genetic mutation in multi-cellular creatures....cancer is a genetic mutation.

We have never witnessed (to my knowledge) a useful genetic mutation that could help a multi-cellular creature evolve.

It is a "leap of faith" (IMO) to say that ALL evolution is driven only by genetic mutations.

Does some evolution happen by genetic mutation.....sure.

Does ALL evolution happen thru genetic mutation.....I doubt it.

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Re: The Potential of Evolution [Re: vampirism]
    #4195845 -

Actually, I heard the "We only use X% of our brain at a time" "fact" was just bullshit from lack of understanding. Scientists, decades ago, discovered glia in the brain that helped neurons function, and since glia make up the majority of the brain, and scientists didn't see their purpose, they said we only use X% of our brain, which is the neurons.

We know now that to be complete and utter bullshit. Glia serve an essential purpose to the brain and neurons, just like the ventricles to the atria. Natural selection doesn't create 90% extra brain space for nothing, it'd just consume excess energy and make that organism die off for carrying around such abundance of uselessness.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: The Potential of Evolution [Re: vampirism]
    #4196980 -

Morrowind said:
You can't make truth, you can only make meaning.

And which world is it that evolves levitating beings and clearly telepathic creatures on demand? You should look into science fiction.



In my dream at night it is true that I am walking in a street. That street is real and is the truth, but it does not exist in the material world. I created that truth and that reality


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: The Potential of Evolution [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4199789 -

Without meaning, there is no truth. You didn't make any sort of street at all, you interpretted crazy nuerons as a street; you just gave meaning to the jumble of fractal chaos in your brain.

In that reality, but you made up that reality.

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Re: The Potential of Evolution [Re: niteowl]
    #4200415 -

niteowl said:
We have never witnessed (to my knowledge) a useful genetic mutation that could help a multi-cellular creature evolve.






:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody

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Re: The Potential of Evolution [Re: niteowl]
    #4200513 -

niteowl said:
Didn't say that we haven't seen genetic mutation in multi-cellular creatures....cancer is a genetic mutation.

We have never witnessed (to my knowledge) a useful genetic mutation that could help a multi-cellular creature evolve.

It is a "leap of faith" (IMO) to say that ALL evolution is driven only by genetic mutations.

Does some evolution happen by genetic mutation.....sure.

Does ALL evolution happen thru genetic mutation.....I doubt it.




Actually.. you're wrong.

We've bred dogs, cats. Cows. Horses. Pigs, chickens, hamsters, mice, guinea pigs. All manner of domestic animals.

All through selectively breeding for traits that pop up and we deem useful.


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.

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Re: The Potential of Evolution [Re: niteowl]
    #4200527 -

Quote:
We have never witnessed (to my knowledge) a useful genetic mutation that could help a multi-cellular creature evolve.



:confused:

I don't get what you mean by this. Just browsing through the science section of the news this week, I came by a useful genetic mutation that helps squirrels evolve:

Quote:
An exotic evolution

Nikki Kahn / The Washington Post

By David A. Fahrenthold

WASHINGTON - Because the history of Washington has been written by humans, nobody has paid much attention to the fact that 18 Canadian squirrels were released at the National Zoo during the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt.

But, if the capital's story were ever told by its rodents, few events would be more prominent than this one.

That's because those 18 squirrels ? whose coats of lustrous black set them apart from the native animals ? were the beginning of a shift that has changed the complexion of Washington's backyard critters. Now, probably because of a slight evolutionary advantage conveyed with a black coat, the descendants of these squirrels have spread all the way into Rockville and Prince William County.

Seriously: Scientists say it's a real-life example of natural selection at work, which has rolled on for a century here without much public notice.

"It shows the spread of a gene within a population," said Richard W. Thorington Jr., a Smithsonian Institution researcher working on a book that includes a history of the District's black squirrels. "That is evolutionary change before your eyes."

Shades of mystery
The story of Washington's black squirrels ? which scientists say are just a color variation within the common gray squirrel species ? still has its shades of mystery.

For starters, nobody is quite certain why the Smithsonian decided to bring the critters here in the first place. The zoo's best guess, according to spokeswoman Peper Long, is that they were trying to restore the local population of gray squirrels, which had been decimated through hunting.

"Some people thought the gray squirrel was going to be extinct," Long said.

The Smithsonian's archives offer only the barest of facts: In 1902, and then again in 1906, the zoo got black squirrels from "the department of crown lands" in Ontario.

The next historical evidence pops up 15 years later, in the form of roadkill.

This week, in an upper story of the rotunda at the National Museum of Natural History, researcher Katie Ferrell pulled out a drawer full of stiff squirrel carcasses. It was a tiny sample from the museum's collection of 30,000.

"Cleveland Park, 1917," she said, reading the tag of one black animal that apparently met its fate under the wheels of a D.C. motorist. It was solid evidence that the squirrels had already left zoo grounds. Scientists say the black variety now comprises 5 to 25 percent of the squirrels in some neighborhoods.

Here's why some scientists believe the black squirrels were multiplying: In winter, their dark coats allowed them to retain heat from sunlight, leaving them less desperate for warmth than their lighter-colored cousins.

"If you can do it with solar heat, you don't need quite as much metabolic heat," and, therefore, need less food, Thorington said.

In some cases, this advantage seems to have outweighed the potential downside of a black coat ? being more conspicuous to hawks and other predators.

Thorington believes that black squirrels were slightly more likely to survive and reproduce, and their genes were passed on to succeeding generations.

Whatever the reason, observers say, black squirrels have been showing up in areas where only gray-colored specimens had been.

They appeared in Bethesda, Silver Spring and Chevy Chase in the 1960s, perhaps using the Rock Creek Stream Valley as a highway north from the District. One survey of Bethesda in 1990 found that about 25 percent of the squirrels there were black.

To the east, the squirrels crossed the city a few decades ago to colonize the National Arboretum and Capitol Hill. To the south, they made it across the Potomac River into Arlington, where naturalists say they've seen black squirrels since at least the 1980s.

Black squirrels even had a cameo in the area's best-known bit of squirrel research: the survey of animals in Lafayette Park in 1980 and 1981, which showed that this tourist landmark had the densest squirrel population known to science.

"I do remember seeing melanistic [dark-pigmented] squirrels around," said David Manski, a biologist who spent eight months watching rodents in the park.

Now, the frontier appears to run through Fairfax County, where the squirrels are still rare, and Prince William County, where some have been spotted in a forest 35 miles from their origins in Washington.

In Montgomery, the squirrels are spreading into Gaithersburg and Rockville ? though not without a little controversy.

'It's the same squirrel'
Some residents have called to complain that the new squirrels are aggressive, driving out the friendly gray squirrels, said Bill Hamilton of the county Department of Park and Planning.

He said he reassures residents: "It's the same squirrel," just a different color.

Among themselves, the squirrels appear to feel the same way, according to Vagn Flyger, a retired University of Maryland professor.

Flyger devoted himself to studying squirrels because, as he explains it, they weigh less than a deer and don't bite like a polar bear. He used to smear a tree behind his Silver Spring home with a mixture of peanut butter and Valium and then tattoo the squirrels that he found passed out below.

When he first did this, more than 30 years ago, there were only gray ones, Flyger said. Now, he says, at least four black squirrels live nearby.

He has studied their behavior ? now using feeders rather than Valium ? and determined that the squirrels don't appear to treat each other differently because they are black or gray.

"They don't seem to care," he said.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7902972/

A simple genetic mutation that changes the color of a wild squirrel's coat from grey to black, and suddenly squirrels can get more heat in the winter. Evolution seems to take babysteps like this, which is why you couldn't throw a billion frogs onto a frying pan and suddenly get a few levitating frogs.

But we definitely observe genetic mutations that pass through the species of a multicellular creature and help them survive, even something as simple as changing a creature's colors to help it survive in certain environments.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: The Potential of Evolution [Re: Ravus]
    #4200635 -

That isn't a very good example. There was no genetic mutation going on at all.  :confused:

That situation is more comparable to (human) black genetics being introduced into a predominantly white population which keeps people from getting sunburn.  :tongue:

Edited by moog (05/20/05 05:04 PM)

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Re: The Potential of Evolution [Re: moog]
    #4201205 -

White skin is a mutation, along with black fur on a squirrel. Do you think these things appear suddenly by themselves? It's within the genetics of the species.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: The Potential of Evolution [Re: Ravus]
    #4201241 -

Yeah, but the article states that the black-furred squirrels were moved (released) there. So the genetic mutation occurred before they were in the location where that mutation gave them the advantage. Ah nevermind, I don't want to argue about something so stupid.

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Re: The Potential of Evolution [Re: Ravus]
    #4201608 -

This is not a good example of "natural evolution".

It is more along the lines of genetic "manipulation" by an outside force. (or alien interference in human evolution)


Sorta like all the different breeds of dogs can trace their roots back to wolves. (thanks to us)

WE were the driving force behind the change in the color of the squirrel's fur.

Again I never said that "random genetic mutations" never happen.......just that they may not be the only way that evolution happens.

Evolutionists say that evolution is driven by "random genetic mutations" only.

I think that believing we have solved the problem of evolution is somewhat arrogant.

I believe that there are more factors to our evolution than just random mutations.

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Re: The Potential of Evolution [Re: Ravus]
    #4201798 -

Quote:
some scientists believe .......:blah:

Thorington believes........:blah:

..black squirrels have been showing up in areas where only gray-colored specimens had been.




This phenomenon could simply be a case of "jungle fever" too.

Squirrel A: "Hey! Did you see that dark furred hottie over at the zoo!?"

Squirrel B: "Hell Yea!! I ain't never seen anything like them. Let go holla at them"

To say that either "theory" is fact.....is arrogance/ignorance.

They are just theories.....nothing more.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Re: The Potential of Evolution [Re: niteowl]
    #4201818 -

The genetic tendency to grow black hair may be stronger than the gray gene.

There are many other ways to look at this, rather that claim the evidence fully supports either theory.

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