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OfflineI2ancid
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Ego battles on high doses
    #3327108 - 11/06/04 10:58 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Whenever I do a high dose of psilocybin I reach a state of feeling like im given the chance to let go and gain some superior knowledge.

The problem is everytime I get close, words from the bible come into my mind, most notably the parable about satan offering knowledge from eating from the tree of knowledge.

I therefor do not let go and simply repeat "jesus" as a way to ground myself because of fear that it is an unforgiveable sin and I will find myself in hell. Not fire and brimstone hell, but a place of suffering, a loop of eternal connectedness with other beings who have taken the same path of which there is no escape.

Anyone have any comments?


--------------------
I went to st thomas and camped out ontop of the island... Despite my entire family being poor all my life, the land is priceless.
I was chased by haitians in the main city charlotte amalie when my girlfriend and I got some cocaine for free in a bar and mixed it with alcohol, to form a stronger drug. With such confidence at 2am, we walked the 4-5 or so miles down to the beach where the african slaves lie like lions waiting on tourist prey.


The war isen't on drugs... the war is on the causes that influence people to abuse drugs. drug-abuse is a by-product of the system and much like radioactive waste occurs from utilizing nuclear power, drug addicts with drug-problems will need to be properly disposed of, like the decaying radioactive waste produced from nuclear energy. -i2ancid


Edited by I2ancid (11/06/04 11:00 AM)


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OfflineI2ancid
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Re: Ego battles on high doses [Re: I2ancid]
    #3327115 - 11/06/04 11:02 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

it feels like its a trap and if I go "too far" ill be trapped in it forever and the bible is warning me about it. I haven't even read the bible in some time but certain parables came to mind.


--------------------
I went to st thomas and camped out ontop of the island... Despite my entire family being poor all my life, the land is priceless.
I was chased by haitians in the main city charlotte amalie when my girlfriend and I got some cocaine for free in a bar and mixed it with alcohol, to form a stronger drug. With such confidence at 2am, we walked the 4-5 or so miles down to the beach where the african slaves lie like lions waiting on tourist prey.


The war isen't on drugs... the war is on the causes that influence people to abuse drugs. drug-abuse is a by-product of the system and much like radioactive waste occurs from utilizing nuclear power, drug addicts with drug-problems will need to be properly disposed of, like the decaying radioactive waste produced from nuclear energy. -i2ancid


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Offlinesox24
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Re: Ego battles on high doses [Re: I2ancid]
    #3327140 - 11/06/04 11:14 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

You aren't going to find superior knowledge. Perhaps you are going at things the wrong way. You should have let go from the beginning. That story about the tree of knowledge is a tough one. I surely don't think with all the evil in the world that it is a sin to engage in these holy materials, to try. There is nothing wrong with trying to figure things out, despite what people will tell you. Some people will repeat things they think are wisdom just because they have been handed down. Sometimes the wrong things get handed down for a long time too. We have the story of the forbidden fruit up front for a reason. Perhaps that is the symbolic story we use representing the choice of going on an adventure or not. Perhaps that story was put in place by the Bible writers to persuade people from questioning those who wanted to manipulate them (just like what goes on now). The Bible is a good book though, I am not disputing the goodness of distorted history and it all. I question what the bible is and what it is used for. That guilt you have is just hidden fear. Don't be afraid, put faith in who really made the Bible, the spirit of the cosmos.



Edited by sox24 (11/06/04 11:23 AM)


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Ego battles on high doses [Re: I2ancid]
    #3327173 - 11/06/04 11:33 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

""it feels like its a trap and if I go "too far" ill be trapped in it forever""

enlightenment? why is trapped a bad thing, (if it is) ?


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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Offlinesox24
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Re: Ego battles on high doses [Re: Gomp]
    #3327231 - 11/06/04 12:03 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Exactly, when Bruce Springsteen sings Trapped, it is because he's free.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Ego battles on high doses [Re: sox24]
    #3327240 - 11/06/04 12:07 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Don't worry about the Bible...it is just a mythos established for Christian culture. It has a signifigance as do all myths, but no more than any other.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflinePedM
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Re: Ego battles on high doses [Re: I2ancid]
    #3327317 - 11/06/04 12:53 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

>> The problem is everytime I get close, words from the bible come into my mind, most notably the parable about satan offering knowledge from eating from the tree of knowledge.

This story is often presented in such a way that makes human beings seem faultless, suggesting that we were tricked into eating of the Tree of Knowledge by that sneaky Satan character. The lesson taken from the story about the snake in the tree is that we cannot trust knowledge, as though there were some reason to be afraid of pursuing it.

A much more helpful interpretation might be to regard human suffering as the result of superior knowledge gained without superior wisdom.

It is unquestionable that human beings have achieved a mastery over their environment that no animal in earth's history has ever achieved. As human beings, we have acquired over the course of many centuries knowledge of how our surroundings can be manipulated to our favour. In this way, when compared to animals we are almost immeasurably advanced.

Though, there is another aspect of our humanity which is not nearly so impressive. It is our wisdom. When it comes to wisdom, human beings are still as immature and rudamentary animals. Like animals, we are always pursuing pleasures to make us happy, while fleeing discomfort. We move from object to object with almost no awareness of what motivates us. We have no insight into our actions and their effects. We have the same wish as animals to be happy, comfortable, and free from suffering, but like animals we have no understanding of how to accomplish that wish. And so all of our vast human knowledge has been wasted on countless destructive endeavours.

If knowledge is a tool, then human beings are holding it upside down. The tool is not broken; we simply do not understand how to use it.

So you can see how it is not a failing in knowledge which has caused human suffering: it is a failing in human beings. What mushrooms offer you, if I may speculate, is not knowledge but wisdom. Wisdom about how to live happily, healthily, and positively. Insight into how knowledge is to be used to help yourself and others be free of affliction. There is no reason to be afraid of opening your heart to these things.

Also understand that whatever insight gained through the use of psilocybin will all but disappear by the end of the experience, that you will be extremely lucky to take even a fraction of that heightened awareness into your every day life. Do not attempt to attach your identity to realizations as they appear. If Satan is regarded as the great deceiver, then it is the ego which resembles Satan most of all. If we associate our ego with wisdom and insight, both wisdom and insight will become deceptive and lead us astray.

And that, I think, is a much more valuable lesson to be gained from the story of the snake in the tree.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Ego battles on high doses [Re: Ped]
    #3327325 - 11/06/04 12:57 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

If I had been in the Garden of Eden the first thing I would have done would have been to stuff myself off of the fruit of that tree...maybe make a good pie or something...then I would take a dump and stuff myself again. When God showed up I would have run and hid, but later sneak out and eat some more.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflinePedM
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Re: Ego battles on high doses [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3327329 - 11/06/04 12:58 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

You weasle :smile:


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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Re: Ego battles on high doses [Re: Ped]
    #3327335 - 11/06/04 12:59 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Knowledge is tasty...and I do like to eat. A minister once told a friend of mine "You can admire a rose without taking a bite of it." My friend replied "No I can't. I would devour it thorns and all."
Thorns are tasty too.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Ego battles on high doses [Re: I2ancid]
    #3327404 - 11/06/04 01:32 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

a) the fear that the church would like you to have is unfounded.
b) the amount you will actually learn is not that astonishing, but the feeling of letting go is excellent.
====================
basically there are no mind police, the devil is just another mask, and enlightenment is a gradual path: so the whole issue here is just about learning to calm down, and keep calming down.


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Offlinenothing
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Re: Ego battles on high doses *DELETED* [Re: I2ancid]
    #3327689 - 11/06/04 03:11 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Sir Ian

Reason for deletion: _



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OfflineI2ancid
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Re: Ego battles on high doses [Re: nothing]
    #3327964 - 11/06/04 04:44 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks PED, very helpful.

Sir Ian, that for me, is the HARDEST thing to do. I don't think I can turn from my religion, I am an extremely liberal christian, I make my own opinions about christianity based on the new testament, not listen to a preacher in a church.

Even so, as soon as I felt myself leading away from a foundation built upon jesus' teachings I basically felt immense fear, like it was a trick to be led away from this foundation and I was consequently forced to fight to hold onto it...

It basically felt like I was indeed being tricked and I was being tempted to abandon my foundation. I remember the words "The hardest thing you'll ever have to do is let go" overwhelm my consciousness.


--------------------
I went to st thomas and camped out ontop of the island... Despite my entire family being poor all my life, the land is priceless.
I was chased by haitians in the main city charlotte amalie when my girlfriend and I got some cocaine for free in a bar and mixed it with alcohol, to form a stronger drug. With such confidence at 2am, we walked the 4-5 or so miles down to the beach where the african slaves lie like lions waiting on tourist prey.


The war isen't on drugs... the war is on the causes that influence people to abuse drugs. drug-abuse is a by-product of the system and much like radioactive waste occurs from utilizing nuclear power, drug addicts with drug-problems will need to be properly disposed of, like the decaying radioactive waste produced from nuclear energy. -i2ancid


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Ego battles on high doses [Re: I2ancid]
    #3327987 - 11/06/04 05:19 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

you need not leave your foundation, just let things be in their own light.
no movement is required.
being natural is strangely natural, but it is compatible with
*what is*
so there really is nothing to fear.


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OfflineDroz
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Re: Ego battles on high doses [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3328147 - 11/06/04 06:22 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

These thoughts that appear seem to be more like frame of references then anything else. You have something to look at when the experience is a little too much for you the bible which you have read is there to define it.

Define it does.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Ego battles on high doses [Re: I2ancid]
    #3328243 - 11/06/04 06:55 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I know you said high dose, but enjoy the mushroom trip, no need to force yourself to do anything. enjoy whatever the mushrooms bring to you, then you won't be feeling anything negative while tripping. Big doses can be a little uneasy, but if you tread the water instead of analyzing it, there will be less on thinking about what to expect. Besides, why expect something from the unexpected? Going with the flow and not forcing yourself to do anything is letting go. Experience the trip instead of trying to think about the trip.

After all, remaining positive or calm under intense situations is something all of us can learn from.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Offlinekbilly
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Re: Ego battles on high doses [Re: kaiowas]
    #3329061 - 11/07/04 12:44 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

"most notably the parable about satan offering knowledge from eating from the tree of knowledge"

there is a different spin of this parable.
its that god who made us is NOT God, God made god(well actualy it was more a byproduct) and he thought he was god. so God made the snake to give us knowledge to help us realize this.

to the christians this is heresy to gnostics its the trutj according to dead sea scrolls, and non stabdard books of the bible etc.

im not a gnostic, but from this perspective getting offered the fruit is liberating and you can accept.


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Ego battles on high doses [Re: I2ancid]
    #3329595 - 11/07/04 05:39 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

On your next trip, you have to try to forget everything that you know so far. Enter the psychedelic experience with a fresh perception of reality, that is, with curiosity and with letting go of previously accumulated knowledge. Free yourself from your ego. Because it is your ego that is the source of the fear that you feel. Just...let go . Let the experience submerge you without trying to hold on to the foundation of your ego, like religion.

Peace


--------------------


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Re: Ego battles on high doses [Re: exclusive58]
    #3329939 - 11/07/04 11:19 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Ego loss is what I like to call my trip back last December when I dosed on an insane amount of dry and fresh shrooms. What is now a hazy memory was, atleast back then, a spirtual epiphany. I felt like I was Buddha and the world had nothing on me.


--------------------
shrug dot aboleo dot net


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