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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: christopera]
    #28354077 -

I like this indictment better than hush money to stormy. Trump could not stop bragging to people these were classified docs he was showing them.

"This is secret information. Look at this," Trump was allegedly heard saying

I'm seeing opinion that all he had to do was say "whoops mistake that i took them" and returned the boxes and that would have been the end of it, its the lying and refusing to return them that fucked him, obstruction of justice is no joke. Going down like that is hilarious. Like every classified document is numbered and they know exactly what was missing, he suggested to his aides just denying he had them. Like close your eyes and it will all go away.

I want to see him in prison so bad, he's going to encourage rioting again when shit hits the fan, but it will be the last time

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Enlil]
    #28354102 -

Enlil said:
Brian Jones said:
Enlil said:
He has done incredible harm to the nation.  Most likely harm that will last for the remainder of my lifetime.  No one said he was harmless.  A prosecution of him, however, will do further harm to the nation.  Balancing that with whatever benefits may or may not arise out of "justice" is the key here, and I just don't see the upside of a prosecution at this point.


I would be more comfortable with that argument if there was no chance for Trump to get elected. What if he wins and the right controls all branches of federal government. It can't be predicted but it could happen. Then we're at the, "they should have stopped Hitler at Munich" stage, but it will be too late to do anything about it.

The legal system, from criminal prosecutions to SCOTUS decisions are supposed to be based on principles, but often it's a political fight. Maybe the closest we can get to democracy is making it a fair fight, which represents more people's interests. But for about 45 years, the Dems are more concerned with principles, compromise and impression management and right seldom hesitates to wield whatever power they can. Obama should have gone scorched earth when they blocked the vote to confirm Garland. LBJ would have. So now we have a stacked court whose version of justice oppresses the majority.

If we let Trump slide, it won't make the right any less likely to prosecute their opponents when they have the evidence. They play by different rules.

I wouldn't take any chances with Trump. If the cases have merit to prosecute they should move forward.
They can always give him special consideration in sentencing for the good of the country.


Are you suggesting that the indictment will mean he couldn't get reelected?


Not at all, and as I said once before Trump would love to beat Eugene V. Debs record of getting a million votes for President from a prison cell. Trump loves to brag about records, and he would smash that one.

I want to harm him enough to sway voters, just in case. It's arguably political prosecution, but the evidence must be evaluated without bias.

Your argument has considerable merit. However a Republican congress is a likely outcome and the right has the SCOTUS. The public doesn't want Trump or Biden to even run, but their party's so far seem resigned to being stuck with them. If Trump gets nominated and picks an appealing running mate, I will be terrified.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28354112 -

if the scotus and congress free a guilty trump, we likely lose the country in whole cloth.

as the indictment is read if trump is guilty of these things, and walks or becomes president again, or gets pardoned...and is allowed to thrive after sharing nuclear secrets and security vulnerabilities with non-cleared people at a beach resort...

then anyone can do any crime so long as they have the right friends and the whole world will know.

so why even bother following the law when you can just donate to the right campaigns.


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->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: rxb] * 1
    #28354162 -

Yeah I keep thinking about what enlil sad. About jow locking him up won't be a benefit to anyone. Well how often does society actually benefit much from locking anyone up? Pretty much only when someone is a physical danger to the public, with their own bare hands with that kind of logic.


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Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: rxb]
    #28354169 -

I would only be mildly pissed off if he got pardoned.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28354219 -

Treason?!  What Treason??

You mean Trump's slumber party with just the bros?  Dem Good Ol' Boys? 

*cough* *erhm* *cough*

I mean... even If he divulged while under peer pressure -but- nobody & nothing immediately imploded or exploded from it??

Some, might even call that a Win.

^  So its totally and completely okay b/c it's like a victimless crime or something you know?  And to be completely honest, if you stop and really think about it... that's kind of a hyuge win for America, intergovernmental cooperation, furthering transparency, and whatnot, gnome saying? 

Besides Who Else can make committing acts of (alleged)[/i] Treason look as good as he allegedly has?  Exactly. 

When Trump commits treason it's not really treason; nay, rather it's but another 4D chess move undertaken for the good of our country's greatness, and although it may seem scandalous, 110% has the most winningest of (t)reasons behind it. 

Just drop the 't' and you'll see what I mean.  :popcorn:

It's not like..it's not like the old fart, what with the impeccable moral character of his, could have or will one day ever- accidently share it with someone who knows someone who'd willingly would do crazy stuff to cause us harm to further their own agendas and gains. 

Ha.  No, that's not the way the world works you silly gooses.

I mean, this kind of stuff doesn't ever actually "fall into the wrong hands", or anything remotely like that, no, you must be watching to much Tv for your own good- ha!  & i'll bet I must sound utterly preposterous for even beating around the bush of such a godly man's irreproachable integrity.  :goat:

...Right?  :lol:

.....................R i G h T ? . . .  :uhoh:


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Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28354225 -

Would be funny and ironic if Biden pardoned Trump. Then Trump defects from the GOP and joins the loony left radicals and WINS THE PRESIDENCY as a Democrat. How funny would that be haha?


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Psilocybe subaeruginosa fish tank moss terrarium

Subaeruginosa colonised substrate offer on Gumtree

Peyote available for sale in Australia

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Warrk]
    #28354233 -

:jawdrop:


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Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Warrk]
    #28354240 -

Enlil said:
Kryptos said:
It certainly won't help his chances.


That's not certain at all.


It will help his chances among his base, sure, but it won't help his chances with independent voters.

feevers said:
One of my home health patients is a former secret service officer (long before trump), he has a shrine to trump in his house. It's a wall with a MAGA hat pinned to the top and pictures of Trump all below it. Quite a few of my patients have trump magnets on their fridge, pictures of him, bumper stickers, flags etc decorating their homes. Calling it a cult doesn't do it justice, it's a large part of their entire identity.

This is in one of the most liberal areas of the country too. The funny/sad part is that most of them are only receiving continued medical services because of medicare, most are living off their social security, the majority are on food stamps, welfare, housing vouchers,elder services and other programs that state and federal republicans have made it their mission to defund.


See? This guy, this guy is much more likely to vote for Trump now that Trump is being prosecuted. Of course, this guy was gonna vote for Trump anyway, even if Trump wasn't on the ballot. So no, I do not think prosecution will help Trump. MAGA is not well distributed enough to win the EC with 30% of the vote.

Warrk said:
Would be funny and ironic if Biden pardoned Trump.


I think this is actually a very likely outcome. He will scream and cry about it for the rest of his life, but if there's one way to make him look like a pussy, it's to have the guy that beat his ass last election save him from prison too.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Kryptos]
    #28354528 -

I think the priority of this trial should be to find out who saw what. Second priority is to show any other people who might get bright ideas that they can't get away with this shit.


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https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Sulfurshelfsean] * 1
    #28354643 -

Sulfurshelfsean said:
Yeah I keep thinking about what enlil sad. About jow locking him up won't be a benefit to anyone. Well how often does society actually benefit much from locking anyone up? Pretty much only when someone is a physical danger to the public, with their own bare hands with that kind of logic.


I agree completely.  This is why we should not be jailing people for nonviolent crimes.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Kryptos]
    #28354648 -

Kryptos said:
I do not think prosecution will help Trump.


That's quite the backpedal from your previous position of absolute certainty. 



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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Enlil]
    #28354745 -

What kind of fine or punishment would you think trump should get in such a case as the documents?


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Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #28354774 -

Something like mandatory rehabilitation training along with a 20 million fine.  In addition, he should be on probation for life.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Enlil]
    #28354795 -

That's such a cheap ticket for someone who may or may not be a billionaire, but can definitely fundraise tens of millions of dollars. My problem with fines is they never hurt fat cats enough to deter them. Lifetime probation for sure.


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Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #28354798 -

It's not about hurfing him.  It's about rehabilitation. The fine is just to pay to clean up the mess.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Enlil]
    #28355177 -

The middle sentence about rehabilitation was an abstract generalization about the purpose of criminal justice, right? Not rehabilitating Trump specifically.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #28355281 -

America abandoned the rehabilitation model about 100 years ago, so I know I'm in the minority here.  Still, I do not see it as government's role to punish people.  Criminal justice should serve the interests of security, stability, and efficiency.  The first is served by jail, but the other two are less so.

To answer your specific question, I don't see why it couldn't be about both.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Enlil]
    #28355292 -

Enlil said:
It's not about hurfing him.  It's about rehabilitation. The fine is just to pay to clean up the mess.


Why make him pay a fine when we can simply sit him down with a state-appointed social worker and explain the difference between right and wrong


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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28355312 -

Why can't it be both?  I think there's an advantage to having criminal offenders pay a fine to support the justice system when the offender has the means to do so.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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