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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Genocide in occupied Palestine [Re: Enlil]
    #27316117 -

Enlil said:
Obliterated...more hyperbole. 

There are casualties on both sides.  Hamas is absolutely targeting civilians, although they are mostly unsuccessful.  Israel is absolutely targeting civilians, and they are far more successful.  If you want to discuss the problem honestly, you need to be honest with your rhetoric.  Using the term genocide is dishonest.


and

Enlil said:
The Ecstatic said:
Ignoring the fact that “the right to exist” is a bullshit term that only exists to defend Israel and only Israel, AND ignoring the fact that Israel literally created Hamas to splinter support away from Fatah and in turn give Israel justification for a more brazen approach to their apartheid regime, Hamas has acknowledged Israel’s right to exist for some time now. They’ve been calling for a return to ‘67 borders in exchange for a peace treaty since at least 2006, 15 years.


Israel hasn't acknowledged Palestine's right to exist.


Seems contradictory, no?

If the standard for genocide excludes the possibility of casualties on both sides, then the Warsaw uprising means that Nazis never committed genocide.

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Re: Genocide in occupied Palestine [Re: Kryptos]
    #27316132 -

Ah but you see it’s against the rules to compare Zionist Jews to nazis. Just think of the hurt feelings.



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Re: Genocide in occupied Palestine [Re: Kryptos]
    #27316141 -

I don't think it's genocide because 1.6 million Palestinians live IN Israel, which is one fifth of the population. Given the history and the power imbalance, it can be argued that what is happening in Gaza is an atrocity. But it looks like that if you're on one side and not the other side, and most Americans who have an opinion on it would reason it the same way.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Genocide in occupied Palestine [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27316190 -

Those Palestinians can’t vote, you can’t even get citizenship in Israel unless you’re Jewish (white and Jewish, for some reason Israel has an issue with Ethiopian Jews).

The definition of genocide is a lot more nuanced than “immediately killing everyone of a certain ethnicity anywhere you can”


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Re: Genocide in occupied Palestine [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27316221 -

Calling it genocide and/or pretending it's one group of people committing atrocities upon another group of people isn't really a great way to discuss resolution.  It might make you guys feel better, but the reality is much more complicated than that.

I'll leave you to your circle jerk, though.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Genocide in occupied Palestine [Re: Enlil]
    #27316239 -

An international coalition peacekeeping mission is a non-starter. Given the permanent members of the UN security council, this is to be assumed.  What then do you propose as an alternative?

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Re: Genocide in occupied Palestine [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #27316246 -

Look if we just get both sides together, with the super neutral objective arbiter the United States as a broker, surely we can come up with something.

We can call it the Oslo Accords.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords


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Re: Genocide in occupied Palestine [Re: Enlil]
    #27316530 -

Enlil said:
Calling it genocide and/or pretending it's one group of people committing atrocities upon another group of people


It kind of is, though. It is one specific group of people, Israeli Jews in leadership, committing atrocities against another group of people, who are considered second-class within Israel: Palestinians.

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Re: Genocide in occupied Palestine [Re: Kryptos]
    #27316555 -

Israel just needs a little bit more land.
This is how you unite a country, by stealing more land from the oppressed side.
When the oppressed side fires off a few thousand rockets, relax man, after the dust settles Israel will have more land and there will be less of those ugly smelly Palestinians but IT'S NOT genocide ok, it's the lion of Israel roaring, claiming what's rightfully theirs? because friggen God said so right?... fuck the holy state of Israel. I don't see one thing that's holy or caring or empathetic or respectful or helpful towards their fellow man :thumbdown:

The only place the Palestinians fit in with Israel's plans is with an Israeli boot on their neck.

The U.S. government has next to zero control/sway over Netanyahu, he has said he will do what he wants until he has "achieved his objectives".

Seems like killing a couple hundred civilians is enough now until the next land theft  :thumbdown:

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Re: Genocide in occupied Palestine [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27316558 -

So what if Israel is ethnically cleansing and occupying a land that isn’t theirs? Don’t you think they have a RIGHT TO EXIST?!


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Re: Genocide in occupied Palestine [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27316566 -

:grrr: They are the holiest after all. Nothing says holy like an occupation.

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Re: Genocide in occupied Palestine [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27317012 -

The Ecstatic said:
America’s involvement is literally the only reason this situation exists.


One of the rare occasions that I'll partly agree with you on something.  I will stop after this and I'm walking on eggshells here. I'll  probably  get banned for saying this, but I also think Zionism has something to do with Israeli aggression. I'll leave it at that before an overly sensitive mod gets too upset.

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Re: Genocide in occupied Palestine [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27317023 -

Stable Genius said:
The U.S. government has next to zero control/sway over Netanyahu, he has said he will do what he wants until he has "achieved his objectives".




I don't think he could "achieve his objectives" without America's financial aid though, so yeah, America does have some influence

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Re: Genocide in occupied Palestine [Re: MightyWhite]
    #27317127 -

You are right.
What I should have said was Netanyahu & the Israeli hard liners are so bloody minded they are unable to be negotiated with and without the U.S. involvement the situation might even be worse.
If that isn't perverse enough I guess they couldn't sell Israel the latest cache of arms without letting them test a few.

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Re: Genocide in occupied Palestine [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27317176 -

It sounds like Netanyahu is just keeping this whole thing going as a bargaining chip to offer to stop doing it if Washington gives him something big that he wants, which will also help him with his election problems.

Other than the election problems part, it's very similar to Krushchev sending the missiles to Cuba.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Genocide in occupied Palestine [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #27317210 -

I don't think this ceasefire is gonna hold...

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Re: Genocide in occupied Palestine [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27317313 -

So Israeli cops bust into the third holiest site in Islam, again, again unprovoked, and again teargassing people for the crime of celebrating the god damn ceasefire.

But the media will wait until Hamas shoots a potato gun towards Tel Aviv so they can report on the “renewed clashes,” wherein the blame falls equally on both sides.


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Re: Genocide in occupied Palestine [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #27317333 -

Cartoon from 2004. Nothing has changed.



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Re: Genocide in occupied Palestine [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27317528 -

The Ecstatic said:
Those Palestinians can’t vote, you can’t even get citizenship in Israel unless you’re Jewish (white and Jewish, for some reason Israel has an issue with Ethiopian Jews).

The definition of genocide is a lot more nuanced than “immediately killing everyone of a certain ethnicity anywhere you can”


Voting restrictions do not equate with genocide regardless of any nuance issues. 1.7 million Palestinians have voting rights in Israel, but many more do not. In Gaza none of the Palestinians have voting rights and all the Israelis and other Jews do, technically through absentee ballots.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Genocide in occupied Palestine [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27317702 -

Aaron Mate interviewed a Hamas official recently, he seems reasonable!! :shrug:


Also, this Israeli soldier lays out the case for genocide.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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