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Grav


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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your buisness? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14091336 - 03/09/11 08:37 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: i just think America should cease military aid to israel immediately
I'm guessing that would be a death sentence for Israel and why isn't having a friendly country with nukes in the middle east an advantage for america? (not saying anything is right or wrong here)
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Seuss said: If you don't want to lose your land, then don't start a war you can't win.
^^^
and just because Israel has not overtly attacked us (since the USS Liberty attack anyways) does not mean they are friendly to America or acting in its best interests.
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Icelander
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your buisness? [Re: Grav]
#14091468 - 03/09/11 09:19 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Can you demonstrate that they are an unfriendly nation?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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communeart


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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your buisness? [Re: Icelander]
#14091748 - 03/09/11 10:32 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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huh? How then would those who support Israel by those means be "revolutionary" or "terrorist"?
More like revolutionaries, since Iran is a revolutionary state and hopes to convert or to influence other nation in it's direction. it's different than the united states looking to influence people since they are a superpower and an old one. israel is a new state and it does wish to influence the middle-east toward democracy, in that sense it makes it a revolutionary state like Iran which is looking to expand westward and have medina/mecca under an islamic republic. Israel would be fighting for western style human rights democracy. Many people do defend israel by stating that they defend our values,are the only democracy in the middle east, or influence the region.
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I don't get the point here.
Has anyone explained why Israel's existance is wrong- as Iran and many others have claimed?
i thought i already did, zionist are not real jews for iranians, they also are on holy muslim territory. Fake=Satanic.
They also are third worldist and israel is far from supporting the third world look at south africa,israel and the diamond trade.
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this is just my opinion but i think it goes to show the influence on how we generally think about geopolitics. if it's about iran, iraq, islam, al-queda, etc. the content and claims therein is self-evident, met with very little or no investigation. however if it's about Israel it is met with skepticism. "what about israel? what do you mean? prove it!"
Because israel is a real neo-colonial entreprise which the united states and it's oligarchy really care about this means that there are actual people paid by top government officials to do propaganda etc this means that the propaganda is of good quality. Another good example is that journalist have it up the ass trying to film anything in israel.
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i just think America should cease military aid to israel immediately
I'm guessing that would be a death sentence for Israel and why isn't having a friendly country with nukes in the middle east an advantage for america? (not saying anything is right or wrong here)
I don't think it is a good idea for america but however on the religious side of thing there is a true messianic christian community in american which is devoted to israel in a manner as profound as ethnic nationalism or the worst annoying rabbi( get out of here you can't eat non kosher food in the same room as me).
I mean when it comes to the war on terror and for america's natoinal security not supporting israel would be better, but however when it comes to imperialism and empire building, cultural imperialism. Supporters of imperialism usually supports israel in america unless they are opposed on religious/ethno nationalist ground.
I have heard of more radical jews in favor of ending USA military aid so that they do not have to face international condemnation for their actions. So i don't think it is a death sentence but i think the money sent by the usa is directly spent on intimidating Iran albeit they did lose the last war in lebanon.
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amilibertine
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your buisness? [Re: Icelander]
#14092234 - 03/09/11 12:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Icelander said: Can you demonstrate that they are an unfriendly nation?
Yes, last year they attacked a ship flying the US flag in international waters (an act of war under international law) and executed an American citizen. Predictably this was barely covered, if at all, by the mainstream media.
They have an enormous influence in American policies. They push the US to fight wars on their behalf (Iraq, and if they have their way Iran as well).
I wonder why know one has brought up the fact that Israel hired 50,000 mercenariness to send to Libya, to HELP Qaddafi! Before this came out the US was preparing to send in troops on the side of the rebels (and for it's own interests, to be sure) but as soon as the story broke Obama changed his tune about supporting freedom and democracy. All because poor Israel doesn't want to lose Qaddafi and his oil/natural gas.
The majority of people in the US were taught in school growing up that Israel are the good guys and the Palestinians are terrorist. Hell, my 6th grade world fair report was on Israel. I believed the bullshit too, until the internet changed the way I found information. People are afraid to criticize Israel in any way for fear of publicly being called anti-semitic (some Israelis have admitted that this is a trick they use to quiet dissent and disagreement towards their policies).
Sure the Palestinians do attack Israel, but you would too if someone came to your land and bulldozed your house, built a huge wall around your villages, and all other manner of much worse crimes against humanity.
Israel is a modern Apartheid.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your buisness? [Re: amilibertine]
#14092308 - 03/09/11 12:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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You mean the pirate ship trying to run a lawful blockade? The Iraq War was on behalf of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia and the other small Gulf States, who were next. Just stop the relentlessly fantastical bullshit.
If the Pallies stop fighting there will be no war. If the Israelis stop fighting there will be no Israel. Look what happened when they gave them the Gaza Strip. A nice base from which to continue their relentless war against the citizens of Israel.
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dynomite
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your buisness? [Re: amilibertine]
#14092325 - 03/09/11 12:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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from topdocumentaryfilms.com:
When Israelis in the occupied territories now claim that they have to defend themselves, they are defending themselves in the sense that any military occupier has to defend itself against the population they are crushing… You can’t defend yourself when you’re militarily occupying someone else’s land. That’s not defense. Call it what you like, it’s not defense. Peace, Propaganda & the Promised Land provides a striking comparison of U.S. and international media coverage of the crisis in the Middle East, zeroing in on how structural distortions in U.S. coverage have reinforced false perceptions of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This pivotal documentary exposes how the foreign policy interests of American political elites–oil, and a need to have a secure military base in the region, among others – work in combination with Israeli public relations strategies to exercise a powerful influence over how news from the region is reported. http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/peace-propaganda-and-the-promised-land/ i don't know how to embed google videos
-------------------- "The great nations have always acted like gangsters and the small ones like prostitutes." - Stanley Kubrick
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Icelander
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your buisness? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14092360 - 03/09/11 12:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: You mean the pirate ship trying to run a lawful blockade? The Iraq War was on behalf of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia and the other small Gulf States, who were next. Just stop the relentlessly fantastical bullshit.
If the Pallies stop fighting there will be no war. If the Israelis stop fighting there will be no Israel. Look what happened when they gave them the Gaza Strip. A nice base from which to continue their relentless war against the citizens of Israel.
In what ways can you demonstrate them as a friendly nation?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dynomite
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your buisness? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14092377 - 03/09/11 12:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: You mean the pirate ship trying to run a lawful blockade? The Iraq War was on behalf of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia and the other small Gulf States, who were next. Just stop the relentlessly fantastical bullshit.
If the Pallies stop fighting there will be no war. If the Israelis stop fighting there will be no Israel. Look what happened when they gave them the Gaza Strip. A nice base from which to continue their relentless war against the citizens of Israel.
pirate ship?! WTF is wrong with you? a ship of unarmed people carrying aid to the palestians is attacked by israeli seals and you call it a pirate ship?
we went to war in iraq for kuwait and saudi arabia????!!!!! that's fucking bullshit, we went to war with iraq for nobody's interests but our own(and maybe israels), you fucking cunt
the pallies aren't fighting and perpetuating a war, they are resisting against an illegal occupation.
-------------------- "The great nations have always acted like gangsters and the small ones like prostitutes." - Stanley Kubrick
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zappaisgod
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your buisness? [Re: Icelander]
#14092386 - 03/09/11 12:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Which? And what do you mean by "friendly"?
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Icelander
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your buisness? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14092396 - 03/09/11 12:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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By friendly I mean how do they support US interests and philosophy?
Personally I think they do for the most part or we wouldn't be in bed with them.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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communeart


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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your buisness? [Re: Icelander]
#14092411 - 03/09/11 12:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Zappa does not defend his own american citizen, he may not be a racist but he is a lousy nationalist.
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despisedicon
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your buisness? [Re: dynomite]
#14092426 - 03/09/11 12:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Let's say you and I are playing Texas Holdem. I go all in and lose. You take my money. I bitch and cry like a little baby and want my money back. Is that valid?
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Icelander
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your buisness? [Re: communeart]
#14092443 - 03/09/11 01:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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communeart said: Zappa does not defend his own american citizen, he may not be a racist but he is a lousy nationalist.
By "his own american citizens" you mean the one's who agree with your lopsided views?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dynomite
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your buisness? [Re: despisedicon]
#14092454 - 03/09/11 01:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
despisedicon said: Let's say you and I are playing Texas Holdem. I go all in and lose. You take my money. I bitch and cry like a little baby and want my money back. Is that valid?
it's more like the plestinians were playing a friendly game of uno for no money, and the israelis came in with tanks and shot half of them, robbed the rest of them, and then took their homes, walled off their new "homes" and enforced checkpoints and curfews.
seems fair
-------------------- "The great nations have always acted like gangsters and the small ones like prostitutes." - Stanley Kubrick
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amilibertine
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your buisness? [Re: dynomite]
#14092467 - 03/09/11 01:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
dynomite said:
Quote:
despisedicon said: Let's say you and I are playing Texas Holdem. I go all in and lose. You take my money. I bitch and cry like a little baby and want my money back. Is that valid?
it's more like the plestinians were playing a friendly game of uno for no money, and the israelis came in with tanks and shot half of them, robbed the rest of them, and then took their homes, walled off their new "homes" and enforced checkpoints and curfews.
seems fair
Good analogy, that's pretty much how it goes down.
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communeart


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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your buisness? [Re: amilibertine]
#14092490 - 03/09/11 01:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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By "his own american citizens" you mean the one's who agree with your lopsided views?
first off, your lopsided views sucks as well. and no, i am saying he should care about american citizen because he is american. just like i am canadian i should look up for citizens of my country, it's just the way things work currently.
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Icelander
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your buisness? [Re: communeart]
#14092506 - 03/09/11 01:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Good then you admit your view is lopsided and it sucks. Honesty is the best policy.
I actually can see both sides of this issue. I may be almost the only one. 
There are plenty of Americans Zap agrees with . I just don't happen to be one of them.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dynomite
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your buisness? [Re: dynomite]
#14092527 - 03/09/11 01:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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you can see both sides of the issue yet you take no stand?
way to take the moral high ground
-------------------- "The great nations have always acted like gangsters and the small ones like prostitutes." - Stanley Kubrick
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communeart


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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your buisness? [Re: Icelander]
#14092533 - 03/09/11 01:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Not really Icelander, just because i take a side does not mean i don't understand both side. you would be surprised to know that american jews are the most coward, many israeli are proudly resisting and denouncing the violence. to be honest, the courageous jews when it comes to their personality are in israel, they enter the people's army, others desert and resist their own community for unfair treatment of palestinians.
Israel is simply an issue in which there is no grey line , any moderation is weakness and used because it is a far too polarized topic, in fact most people should stay clear of it because it is simply a powerful and dangerous topic, things don't get violent like they do about israel and antisemitism, the far left is involved, the far right is involved, the center follows zionism or is too tolerant to not objectively be on their side.
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.silviacattori.net%2Farticle1543.html&act=url
Edited by communeart (03/09/11 01:25 PM)
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despisedicon
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Re: Zionism, Israel- What's the problem? Is it any of your buisness? [Re: amilibertine]
#14092570 - 03/09/11 01:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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The Arabs gambled and lost. Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon sent troops to fight and were defeated militarily. They the Jews acquired a buffer zone and gave back Sinai to Egypt. Most nations accept this fact and want peace at last except those to claim, "Israel is illegal" .
Do you think the Muslims/Arabs/Persians and whoever in the Middle East that opposes a tiny Jewish state just fucking woke up one day in their respected borders? Nope they stole it from each other, Jews, Kurds etc. etc
Palestinians are a political tool and you bought it hook line and sinker. Why is it that you people will huff and puff about the Palestinians but never a word about the Kurds who had their land stolen and instead of a auto-state have a semi quasi state in multiple countries.
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